Let's Bitch About Our Stupid, Annoying Baseball Team: the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

Kevin Gausman really my favourite Jay

The Jays aren't annoying, they simply don't have a coherent five year plan for competing with the stronger teams in the AL East. Their offense is underperforming and only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024. Everything's cool, folks!

only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024

The only position players, that is. They might be a 75-win team, but we'll have Gausman ready to go for G1 of the playoffs!

(nothing against Gausman, he's great)

we also have no real option at 3b right now. if we were the 2014 marlins, sure - we could shunt Biggio or Schnider or Espinal over there; or throw Orelvis Martinez or Addison Barger into the deep end as a major league 3b and see what happens. but if the jays want to be a competitive AL east team, they will need to replace that ~4 wins Chapman gave us every year (even with his hot/cold bat). i figured they would go for Candelario as an affordable/average option and then make up those wins elsewhere; but he signed with the reds pretty quickly. so it's either resign Chapman for a lot of money (not the worst option out there) - or trade for another 3b; but outside of - maybe - Kim on the Padres, who even wants to part with an above average 3b?!

ok. apparently in the presser this morning they said they are "comfortable" with our current options at 3b. 2014 marlins it is a guess. (unless this is an attempt to get Chapman to lower his asking)

apparently they are also "talking to" Yariel Rodriguez and Joc Pederson. I like Rodriguez as a 5th/swing man option - but not very excited about Pederson. would rather they go for Hoskins as a LF/1B/DH

Joc was…not good in SF. Entirely possible he turns it around in Toronto. It’s not even so much a performance thing, anyone can have a down year, but Andrew Baggarly called him out repeatedly for his attitude & lack of conditioning in The Athletic (Baggarly felt the Giants should have re-signed Belt).

👀 👀 👀

(via Baggs) pic.twitter.com/YM2vueikN5

— LOLKNBR (@LOLKNBR) September 26, 2023

Reminds me of a certain movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Q0kp8CMFQ

What am I missing here? Were the Jays 10th at the end of last year? (Maybe, but just barely.) It's not like they've gotten better.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-power-rankings-inaugural-2024-edition

Ross Atkins feels good about the team as is, everything's just fine.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/01/ross-atkins-discusses-current-state-of-blue-jays-roster.html#:~:text=Lineup%20regulars%20like%20George%20Springer,the%20loss%20of%20Chapman's%20bat.

Told you so! Everything is peachy.

Everyone who underperformed last year will bounce back and make up for the loss of Chapman, Ohtani, Aaron Judge, Judge Judy, and the Willie Mays cloning project that didn't pan out. When Vlad, Varsho, and Springer combine to hit 190 home runs next year you won't be disappointed!

Looking at that power ranking, I’m not sure which teams below the Jays I’d put above them? Fangraphs has the 2024 jays projected for 5th best war in baseball (yes that’s not the be-all end-all). Understand the future doesn’t look bright and I have no way near the eye test as many of you loyals, but as a follower from the distance the jays still seem like a team with a solid core that suffers from being in one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Was that post season appearance emblematic of the jays season, or were they just worn out? I understand the cynics would like to say option A, but a team that performs like that as a general trend doesn’t get 89 wins imo

I think that 89 wins was their true talent level, which is good enough to be a top 10 MLB but doesn't scream "WS contender". As far as being in one of the toughest divisions, that's been the excuse for 30 years, but the Rays figured out how to crack the Yanks/Red Sox glass ceiling, the Orioles have had good stretches outside of a dry spell in the early 2000's (and are really good now). The Jays need to stop functioning like a woe-is-us mid-market team, there are seven million people in the GTA and they're owned by a huge media conglomerate.

Find myself not caring all that much:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-guerrero-jr-unable-to-reach-deal-ahead-of-arbitration-deadline/

Didn't know there was Vlad Jr. Jr.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/report-mets-sign-16-year-old-prospect-vladi-miguel-guerrero/

Not a video game guy, but yeah, there might have been a better choice or two (or 40)

https://www.sportskeeda.com/baseball/news-you-re-kidding-me-so-many-better-options-fans-left-stunned-mlb-the-show-announces-vladimir-guerrero-jr-cover-athlete

I have no strong feeling towards Justin Turner one way or the other.

remember when they used to pick a different player for the canadian version of the show? i sure do. americans had miggy but we had dang ol' brett lawrie on the show 14 cover

Vlad wins:

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/vladimir-guerrero-jr-wins-record-19-9m-arbitration-hearing-against-toronto-blue-jays-1.2072949

xp ha, yeah! i assumed this was the Canadian cover. I don't think he's a bad pick at all though. Dude is primed to explode imo, if he can avoid the curse of The Show cover athlete (which i'll readily blame Vlad's underwhelming 24 season on)

I used to follow Vladdy on Instagram and he would play The Show after games so it’s nice to have someone who plays the game on the cover. He’s an attention-getting high profile player. It’s fine.

The Athletic gives Toronto's offseason a D

The most memorable part of the Blue Jays’ offseason was a tweet declaring who was decidedly NOT in Toronto (nor headed there, at the moment or eventually). Overall, the Jays’ winter suffered from expectations heightened by their pursuits of Shohei Ohtani or Juan Soto. In a vacuum, bringing back Kevin Kiermaier and bringing in Justin Turner are fine moves; in this vacuum, they leave a kind of … void.

Whereas Alek Manoah’s probably going to be better than his nightmarish 2023, Toronto shouldn’t count on 128 starts from the other four members of their likely rotation. Yariel Rodriguez, who excelled in Japan following a shift to the bullpen, could be a candidate for more innings here.

Offensively, Toronto is hunting rebounds across its lineup, especially from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. But whatever positive regressions accrue there may be mitigated by the loss of Matt Chapman at third, with the light-hitting Isiah Kiner-Falefa (.655 OPS over the last three seasons) slated for significant time on the infield. As with Tampa Bay, Toronto’s offseason feels underwhelmingly unimaginative. In an American League without a behemoth like the Dodgers, that’s a missed opportunity to position yourself nearer to the top.

It's too early to say, obviously. I've had a resentment rattling around in my head about how they've proven they have $600M to play with (yes, Ohtani is a special case), so go land a big one! every contract is going to be terrible, let's be real. it's wait-and-see rn tho

Another utility infielder:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-agree-to-deal-with-veteran-escobar-adding-versatile-infielder/

We're going to lead the league in...scrappiness.

scrappiness

This is very exciting: I now live about a 15-minute walk from Davis Schneider's uniform, in case I'm ever seized by a sudden urge to see it.

Davis Schneider’s uniform from his MLB debut is going to be featured in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame.
https://t.co/d3URSe64NY

— Jays Journal (@JaysJournal) February 17, 2024

Not exactly news, I know:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/hyun-jin-ryu-discussing-contract-with-kbos-hanwha-eagles.html

He’s signed now, I saw

Ah, wrong link--I meant to post about his signing. I don't know if he'll ever make it back--he pitched decently last year, but he's just shy of 37.

Might have decided to cash in and move close to home. Can’t blame him

FB teaser so I'd click: "Check out Alek Manoah's motto for 2024." I clicked, and his new motto is "They don't give out World Series trophies in Triple-A."

I was rooting for "Shut the fuck up."

did he confirm whether or not they give em out in Complex League? 😉

Alex Manoah 2024 ST debut:

IP: 1.2
H: 3
R: 4
ER: 4
BB: 1
K: 0
HRA: 0
XBHA: 2
HBP: Torkelson (by Manoah); Canha (by Manoah); Kelly, C (by Manoah)
ERA: 21.60
WHIP (inc. HBP): 4.20

Yikes. We may have a cerified case of Steve Blass Syndrome here.

Not surprised at all by this outcome

Incredible article about the Ohtani flight tracker and the Blue Jays. Half the roster was at Manoah’s wedding tracking the flight on the golf course!

ROMANO: “I remember where it was. We were sitting by the pool, actually. I was kind of on my phone. And then I was like, ‘NO WAYYYY.’ And then I was telling all the boys. … I was like, ‘Oh, he’s headed there. He’s got to be signing with us.’ So we were all really, really pumped up about it.”

But there were also 18 holes of golf to play. So Romano, Kevin Gausman, Tim Mayza and Danny Jansen hopped in their cart for one of the most distracted rounds of golf ever played.

GAUSMAN: “I remember somebody said, ‘How about this whole Ohtani thing?’ And I was, like, ‘What?’ What do you mean?’ But as we were playing golf, it just got crazier and crazier.”

THE ATHLETIC (TO JORDAN ROMANO): “What about the story where Kikuchi had an entire restaurant reserved for dinner with Ohtani that night? Did you try to confirm that? Did you even question whether Kikuchi would be in Toronto in December?”

ROMANO: “No, because I knew he was. So that made sense. Because I knew he was working out in Toronto. I even knew the place he was working out at. So that was just another piece that just felt like: This is getting real.”

TA: “And since you were at this wedding in Puerto Rico, there was no reason for you to think: ‘Why wouldn’t he have invited me to dinner?’”

ROMANO: “Exactly.”

But not all of Kikuchi’s teammates were content to assume it must be true. Like Bo Bichette, for instance. He went right to the source.

TA: “Did you ever ask anybody, like Ross Atkins or Mark Shapiro, if any of this was true? Or Kikuchi, who supposedly rented out that restaurant?”

BICHETTE: “I talked to Kikuchi a little bit about it, yeah. So I kind of knew that the rumors probably weren’t true when he texted me and said: ‘I don’t know what’s going on.’ I figured he would know.”

Been trying to formulate a joke related to Manoah's wedding; it would help if he were the one throwing the bouquet.

I can’t think of one either, so here’s a nice photo of the lads at the wedding reception
https://i.postimg.cc/3R71qX96/IMG-6144.jpg

Gausman, Manoah, Espinal, Romano; far left is Mike on my bowling team; far right, blanking out.

Danny Jansen?

Jansen

Vlad's birthday yesterday:

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/a-look-at-vladdys-career-accomplishments-as-he-turns-25

Their conclusion: "It's easy to forget how young Guerrero still is considering how long he's been around, but it's important to remember what he has done for this team and that his best years are still ahead of him."

My conclusion: "There's 2021, and then there's everything else."

To be fair, one day before Bryce Harper's 26th birthday, I would have summed up his career exactly the same--there was 2015, and then there was everything else. So I know there's lots of time to turn things around. Whether that happens or not--and if it does, whether or not it hpapens in Toronto--nobody knows.

Votto homers off Wheeler on the first pitch he sees as a Jay. Rolls ankle on a bat immediately afterwards, leaves game

(as previously reported in the Votto thread)

I haven't a clue what Santiago Espinal is worth, but this is what we got:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=mcelva000chr#

Hasn't pitched in the majors yet.

the main thing, i think, is he doesn't need to be on the 40 man. inning eater at best if he makes the bigs, by the looks of it.

Something else fell through for tomorrow, so think I'll watch the opener at the Canadian HOF. They're going to be showing every Friday game there for the rest of the season.

Going to leftfield with the girlfriend to watch. Screw work and making money!

Varsho Cove, I think they call it.

Watched the first six innings at the (Canadian) HOF, left because their feed was kind of choppy. I had a cardboard stand-up of Fergie Jenkins looking over my right shoulder the whole time. About 30 people were there.

They flashed a graphic of Berrios's GS the last five years (excepting the COVID season):

2018 - 32
2019 - 32
2021 - 32
2022 - 32
2023 - 32

Not as amazing as Khris ".247" Davis's streak--GS is a lot more predictable than BA, plus the COVID year intrudes--but still eye-opening. Apparently Berrios has never missed a start in his career.

Vlad's playing third today, first time since 2019--inneresting!

"IKF," as has been much commented on, has been one of the team's bright spots this year.

This seems to be more cleaning up a mess from last week than anything else:

https://www.mlb.com/news/ross-atkins-vladimir-guerrero-jr-bo-bichette-trade-talks

My first thought earlier was that Vlad was at third to showcase some defensive flexibility for interested parties.

so the reason pirates manager derek shelton brought in a righty to face vogelbach -- a man with a career .128/.246/.214 line against lefties -- with two on in the fifth today was that available left-hander jose hernandez 'hadn't pitched in nine days'

well, now it's ten days. might as well cut him; he obviously can't be used now

Actual quote from Ball Four, pg. 167:

We'll know better after this next series. The Baltimore Orioles are in town. Which reminds me of a cartoon I once saw. It showed a little boy forlornly carrying a glove and a bat over his shoulder. "How'd you do, son?" his father asks. "I had a no-hitter going until the big kids got out of school," the kid says.

Trevor Richards starting tonight. What a schizophrenic pitching line:

28.1 IP, 12 hits, 26 K, but...13 BB, 4 HR. ERA = 3.18; FIP = 4.51.

In other words: H/9, 3.8; FIP, 4.5. That's gotta be extremely rare...

That’s a very high walk rate

I am very proud of myself.
I was at the game, and bottom of the 9th, winning run on second, I point out to my friend “they’re playing him kind of shallow” and sure enough he hits it just hard enough over the OF’s head to win the game

I also got a sweet backpack out of the deal. Not crazy about these jerseys but I like the backpacks. They’re honestly pretty good quality.

I was also there with an old friend instead of my gf because I think our relationship is over and im super bummed. Anyways I’ll stop making this thread my personal blog

Ok one more thing. I bought a custom (vintage style) Barfield jersey and regret nothing. I deserve it!

i was sort of half paying attention, but was everyone kind of wearing high socks or is that just the cut of the pants?

The socks are bright red and hard to miss, but only Bo and Springer were rocking them iirc

I really hope Biggio finds his way somewhere else. I think he's gotten the shaft a bit the past few years, put into a situation where it was extremely difficult to establish any consistency.

(He was DFA'ed today.)

oh!!

Manoah's out for the season. Who knows how far back this goes--would explain a lot, for sure.

Last year really sounded like a conditioning issue

Bummer about Biggio. Dude delivered some of my all time fav jays moments

I hope his next team feeds him better.

0-1 in the post Biggio era.

Agree that he'd be worth a chance:

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/division-rival-cuts-bait-with-intriguing-hitter-blue-jays-should-look-into

I think they jays had him in their system a few years ago and he got rule 5’d or something.

I was pretty negative on them a couple of weeks ago; I haven't changed a bit on what I'd like them to do (change course a.s.a.p. with an eye two or three years down the road), but I'll give them credit for finally playing better. They won most of the games they were supposed to against Chicago and Oakland, they've played Baltimore and Milwaukee tough, and they're almost back to .500. Which is Lucy and the football...but they are playing better.

Biggio to Dodgers
reunites with Teo

I don't know how much playing time he'll get, but very happy for him. That's got to feel like winning the lottery, and not really because of Teoscar.

They sure didn't get much for him, did they?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=fisher003bra#

xp
he could outplay Kiké and/or Taylor.
Teo would be my prize. A Championship will be nice, but he's gotta do it with the Dodgers

He will get substantial playing time. The bottom of the dodgers order has been a big question mark the whole season. Their 6-7-8-9 spots have an average of 77 wrc+. Biggio has a wrc+ of 88 this season.

Never got Daniel Vogelbach at all--glad he's gone.

0-1 in the post Vogelbach era

Obviously, Mookie Betts getting injured is terrible; for him, for the game. (And for someone like me, whose fandom these days often gravitates towards HOF players doing great things.) And this is just meaningless internet chatter:

https://fansided.com/posts/mlb-rumors-dodgers-blue-jays-bo-bichette-trade-mookie-betts-emergency

If that opportunity does arise, though, I'd take it. I don't know if the theoretical trade in the piece is fair value, but it would be an opportunity for the Jays.

Based on the Biggio trade, though, I dread what our two yahoos would accept for Bichette.

jesus. dude wasted no time

Pls no

This would be very silly

It's not all that crazy -- I'm talking about a trade in general, not that one specifically. This year's team doesn't have the talent for a deep playoff run (on paper). Bichette isn't signed to an extension and there's been no serious attempt to sign him long term. The problem is that they'd be selling low if he was traded now. But is next year's team going to make some kind of leap with the players we have now? Unless they add 2-3 impact players via trade or free agency, I don't see it. Then it's better to stock the farm system and build for the future.

there's been no serious attempt to sign him long term

i've heard they've been trying (of course maybe that's just sportsnet telling me that).

i stay well away from speculation on what the FO is doing

can’t trade Bo when his struggling this much. he was huge last 2 seasons.

is there no value in watching an almost-competitive team this year and hope for the best? bc i’d be super bummed to close the window already for prospects where one will halfway work out

they’re 4.5 back of wildcard 3, with KC, Minny, and BOS ahead of us with about 60?% of the season to go and youse have lost all hope? Dr. Frankl has taught me that meaning lies in the redemption arc

The optimum time to trade someone is tricky, obviously--it's exactly when they're playing well enough that you don't want to. I tentatively threw out the idea of trading Kirk at the 2022 AS break, when he was tearing things up:

Sounds crazy, I know, but: a friend and I were talking about the logic of trading Kirk. Three catchers are a nice luxury, but they need a starter. You don't trade Moreno, Jansen's trade value is probably minimal, and Kirk's is at a peak...I'd hate to give up Kirk, believe me, but I think he could be part of a deal that lands a solid third or fourth starter.

― clemenza, Tuesday, June 21, 2022 9:56 AM

But the outcry if you'd traded him then would have been deafening.

Moreno: will halfway work out for AZ. slap hitter but no one was happy to let home go. now we have Varsh. he may never hit for average but i love that guy. defence is important but the average joe can’t really appreciate it.

but really i just wanna watch what we have. i’ve said here recently: pitching (check), defense (best in the biz - check), offense gets hot at the right time, and that’s a very competitive playoff team. the road there is tough but the texas teams are laying an egg and i’m not overly concerned about the teams ahead of us (re: my last post).