What is the difference between an ace and a #1?

xp didn’t we discuss Strider relatively recently ito his high ERA? If he’s a FIP guy that’s totally fine cos Strider has a league leading FIP but if you look at ERA first then he’s not The Guy ito run prevention.

a #1 is simply the team's best starter, it's framed within the context of a pitching staff. whereas an ace is a general term for a top tier starter, a team could have 0 or 2 aces.

^^^

when did starters become numbered? because they weren’t when i was a kid

Is it a scouting thing? 5 man rotation has been around since the 50s but according to this article, the numbers used to distinguish SPs from each order rely on scouting grades.

https://www.minorleagueball.com/platform/amp/2012/8/7/3226335/defining-1-2-3-4-5-starters

Also, this article has some interesting history on the rotation.

The problem with implementing a four- or five-man rotation in the nineteenth century was insufficient pitching depth. Many teams, like Ferguson’s Metropolitans, just presented awful pitchers as the fourth or fifth starters. To put it in a modern context, nineteenth century managers who dabbled with rotation use actually believed Duane Kuiper, on ten days of rest, could beat Steve Carlton on three days of rest.

Kind of crazy how the braves in the '90s, at their peak, had three aces going. And their number four was frequently a guy who'd be a number one elsewhere.

https://www.denverautographs.com/wp-content/uploads/HALLADAYROYMAGSIPHILLIES24687.jpg

vv kind of them to include Blanton

yeah it might be from scouts projecting how good a pitcher will be relative to a typical pitching staff. i dont really remember "#1" getting used much in general even 15 years ago when i was more tuned into baseball media tho

Kind of crazy to look at Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt these days, those guys were legit Hall of Fame caliber. Better pitchers than some who made it into the hall, or who eventually will make it into the hall. They just did it for too brief a period.

vv kind of them to include Blanton

Undisputed aces at various times:

Verlander
Halladay
Kershaw
Pedro
King Felix
Cole
DeGrom
Sale

Maddux

Johnson
Schilling

It’s ok guys, it wasn’t an exhaustive list.

clemens u fules

as to the question itself i'd call an ace a post-facto designation of someone who was on a Hof Trajectory at some point for a number of years TBD + a dose of baseball metaphysics. based on that it makes sense that there are only like, 3 aces in the league at any given point. Santana was an ace for a while, so was kevin brown. # 1 is just the best pitcher on a given staff. who is the # 1 on the a's idk

Paul Blackburn had a sub-4 FIP last year

i was thinking about Blake Snell and how he's had two great seasons and won two Cy Young awards, but unlike every other multiple Cy guy, he's not someone i think of as an ace. feels like he's always on the edge of tipping over into another high ERA season of relative ineffectiveness.

It’s weird isn’t it, you don’t win two accidentally but he feels flukey especially with his lack of innings in most seasons

wasn’t paying attention to his usage in san diego, but tbf the rays simply wouldn’t let him pitch more. set down 18 straight and they’ll still pull you to avoid the dreaded third-time-through-the-order curse

as sheehan says, this is how it is now — snell just got there first bc rays

aces are less interested in sex, although it doesn't mean they don't _have_ sex - that's a common misconception.