Let's Bitch About Our Stupid, Annoying Baseball Team: the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

Was also considering "Toronto Blue Jays Thread #11: Let's Save David Schneider's House," but that would have implied I find this team fun, and I don't.

I love this thread title and I fully approve

We encourage all manner of airing-of-the-grievances in this thread.

As bad as general fan morale here was after the Berrios debacle, I think it's even worse now after a winter of smoke and mirrors and waiting at the altar. If they don't advance past the first round of the playoffs this year, I'd be inclined to take it apart and start over.

this was nice

I hate seeing people talk shit about Toronto like they know it. If you live in Toronto you know how special of a place it is and how passionate the people are #GeauxCanada #GeauxBlueJays 🇨🇦🇨🇦

— Kevin Gausman (@KevinGausman) December 11, 2023

I saw that, and it was. Was it maybe specifically a response to something Costas said?

I will say, that as tone-deaf as Costas's comment might have been in terms of singling out a city, what he said was basically true, right? I'm quite sure MLB and the networks were relieved Ohtani ended up in L.A. instead of here. That seems obvious.

i think it was in response to the american media, in the wake of the ohtani deal, suggesting 'no one would ever willingly sign in toronto'

That's definitely stupid. Past the tax/exchange issues, there is no issue. In the early '90s, everyone wanted to come here.

Kevin Gausman really my favourite Jay

The Jays aren't annoying, they simply don't have a coherent five year plan for competing with the stronger teams in the AL East. Their offense is underperforming and only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024. Everything's cool, folks!

only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024

The only position players, that is. They might be a 75-win team, but we'll have Gausman ready to go for G1 of the playoffs!

(nothing against Gausman, he's great)

we also have no real option at 3b right now. if we were the 2014 marlins, sure - we could shunt Biggio or Schnider or Espinal over there; or throw Orelvis Martinez or Addison Barger into the deep end as a major league 3b and see what happens. but if the jays want to be a competitive AL east team, they will need to replace that ~4 wins Chapman gave us every year (even with his hot/cold bat). i figured they would go for Candelario as an affordable/average option and then make up those wins elsewhere; but he signed with the reds pretty quickly. so it's either resign Chapman for a lot of money (not the worst option out there) - or trade for another 3b; but outside of - maybe - Kim on the Padres, who even wants to part with an above average 3b?!

ok. apparently in the presser this morning they said they are "comfortable" with our current options at 3b. 2014 marlins it is a guess. (unless this is an attempt to get Chapman to lower his asking)

apparently they are also "talking to" Yariel Rodriguez and Joc Pederson. I like Rodriguez as a 5th/swing man option - but not very excited about Pederson. would rather they go for Hoskins as a LF/1B/DH

Joc was…not good in SF. Entirely possible he turns it around in Toronto. It’s not even so much a performance thing, anyone can have a down year, but Andrew Baggarly called him out repeatedly for his attitude & lack of conditioning in The Athletic (Baggarly felt the Giants should have re-signed Belt).

👀 👀 👀

(via Baggs) pic.twitter.com/YM2vueikN5

— LOLKNBR (@LOLKNBR) September 26, 2023

Reminds me of a certain movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Q0kp8CMFQ

What am I missing here? Were the Jays 10th at the end of last year? (Maybe, but just barely.) It's not like they've gotten better.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-power-rankings-inaugural-2024-edition

Ross Atkins feels good about the team as is, everything's just fine.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/01/ross-atkins-discusses-current-state-of-blue-jays-roster.html#:~:text=Lineup%20regulars%20like%20George%20Springer,the%20loss%20of%20Chapman's%20bat.

Told you so! Everything is peachy.

Everyone who underperformed last year will bounce back and make up for the loss of Chapman, Ohtani, Aaron Judge, Judge Judy, and the Willie Mays cloning project that didn't pan out. When Vlad, Varsho, and Springer combine to hit 190 home runs next year you won't be disappointed!

Looking at that power ranking, I’m not sure which teams below the Jays I’d put above them? Fangraphs has the 2024 jays projected for 5th best war in baseball (yes that’s not the be-all end-all). Understand the future doesn’t look bright and I have no way near the eye test as many of you loyals, but as a follower from the distance the jays still seem like a team with a solid core that suffers from being in one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Was that post season appearance emblematic of the jays season, or were they just worn out? I understand the cynics would like to say option A, but a team that performs like that as a general trend doesn’t get 89 wins imo

I think that 89 wins was their true talent level, which is good enough to be a top 10 MLB but doesn't scream "WS contender". As far as being in one of the toughest divisions, that's been the excuse for 30 years, but the Rays figured out how to crack the Yanks/Red Sox glass ceiling, the Orioles have had good stretches outside of a dry spell in the early 2000's (and are really good now). The Jays need to stop functioning like a woe-is-us mid-market team, there are seven million people in the GTA and they're owned by a huge media conglomerate.

Find myself not caring all that much:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-guerrero-jr-unable-to-reach-deal-ahead-of-arbitration-deadline/

Didn't know there was Vlad Jr. Jr.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/report-mets-sign-16-year-old-prospect-vladi-miguel-guerrero/

Not a video game guy, but yeah, there might have been a better choice or two (or 40)

https://www.sportskeeda.com/baseball/news-you-re-kidding-me-so-many-better-options-fans-left-stunned-mlb-the-show-announces-vladimir-guerrero-jr-cover-athlete

I have no strong feeling towards Justin Turner one way or the other.

remember when they used to pick a different player for the canadian version of the show? i sure do. americans had miggy but we had dang ol' brett lawrie on the show 14 cover

Vlad wins:

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/vladimir-guerrero-jr-wins-record-19-9m-arbitration-hearing-against-toronto-blue-jays-1.2072949

xp ha, yeah! i assumed this was the Canadian cover. I don't think he's a bad pick at all though. Dude is primed to explode imo, if he can avoid the curse of The Show cover athlete (which i'll readily blame Vlad's underwhelming 24 season on)

I used to follow Vladdy on Instagram and he would play The Show after games so it’s nice to have someone who plays the game on the cover. He’s an attention-getting high profile player. It’s fine.

The Athletic gives Toronto's offseason a D

The most memorable part of the Blue Jays’ offseason was a tweet declaring who was decidedly NOT in Toronto (nor headed there, at the moment or eventually). Overall, the Jays’ winter suffered from expectations heightened by their pursuits of Shohei Ohtani or Juan Soto. In a vacuum, bringing back Kevin Kiermaier and bringing in Justin Turner are fine moves; in this vacuum, they leave a kind of … void.

Whereas Alek Manoah’s probably going to be better than his nightmarish 2023, Toronto shouldn’t count on 128 starts from the other four members of their likely rotation. Yariel Rodriguez, who excelled in Japan following a shift to the bullpen, could be a candidate for more innings here.

Offensively, Toronto is hunting rebounds across its lineup, especially from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. But whatever positive regressions accrue there may be mitigated by the loss of Matt Chapman at third, with the light-hitting Isiah Kiner-Falefa (.655 OPS over the last three seasons) slated for significant time on the infield. As with Tampa Bay, Toronto’s offseason feels underwhelmingly unimaginative. In an American League without a behemoth like the Dodgers, that’s a missed opportunity to position yourself nearer to the top.

It's too early to say, obviously. I've had a resentment rattling around in my head about how they've proven they have $600M to play with (yes, Ohtani is a special case), so go land a big one! every contract is going to be terrible, let's be real. it's wait-and-see rn tho

Another utility infielder:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-agree-to-deal-with-veteran-escobar-adding-versatile-infielder/

We're going to lead the league in...scrappiness.

scrappiness

This is very exciting: I now live about a 15-minute walk from Davis Schneider's uniform, in case I'm ever seized by a sudden urge to see it.

Davis Schneider’s uniform from his MLB debut is going to be featured in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame.
https://t.co/d3URSe64NY

— Jays Journal (@JaysJournal) February 17, 2024

Not exactly news, I know:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/hyun-jin-ryu-discussing-contract-with-kbos-hanwha-eagles.html

He’s signed now, I saw

Ah, wrong link--I meant to post about his signing. I don't know if he'll ever make it back--he pitched decently last year, but he's just shy of 37.

Might have decided to cash in and move close to home. Can’t blame him

FB teaser so I'd click: "Check out Alek Manoah's motto for 2024." I clicked, and his new motto is "They don't give out World Series trophies in Triple-A."

I was rooting for "Shut the fuck up."

did he confirm whether or not they give em out in Complex League? 😉

Alex Manoah 2024 ST debut:

IP: 1.2
H: 3
R: 4
ER: 4
BB: 1
K: 0
HRA: 0
XBHA: 2
HBP: Torkelson (by Manoah); Canha (by Manoah); Kelly, C (by Manoah)
ERA: 21.60
WHIP (inc. HBP): 4.20

Yikes. We may have a cerified case of Steve Blass Syndrome here.

Not surprised at all by this outcome

Incredible article about the Ohtani flight tracker and the Blue Jays. Half the roster was at Manoah’s wedding tracking the flight on the golf course!

ROMANO: “I remember where it was. We were sitting by the pool, actually. I was kind of on my phone. And then I was like, ‘NO WAYYYY.’ And then I was telling all the boys. … I was like, ‘Oh, he’s headed there. He’s got to be signing with us.’ So we were all really, really pumped up about it.”

But there were also 18 holes of golf to play. So Romano, Kevin Gausman, Tim Mayza and Danny Jansen hopped in their cart for one of the most distracted rounds of golf ever played.

GAUSMAN: “I remember somebody said, ‘How about this whole Ohtani thing?’ And I was, like, ‘What?’ What do you mean?’ But as we were playing golf, it just got crazier and crazier.”

THE ATHLETIC (TO JORDAN ROMANO): “What about the story where Kikuchi had an entire restaurant reserved for dinner with Ohtani that night? Did you try to confirm that? Did you even question whether Kikuchi would be in Toronto in December?”

ROMANO: “No, because I knew he was. So that made sense. Because I knew he was working out in Toronto. I even knew the place he was working out at. So that was just another piece that just felt like: This is getting real.”

TA: “And since you were at this wedding in Puerto Rico, there was no reason for you to think: ‘Why wouldn’t he have invited me to dinner?’”

ROMANO: “Exactly.”

But not all of Kikuchi’s teammates were content to assume it must be true. Like Bo Bichette, for instance. He went right to the source.

TA: “Did you ever ask anybody, like Ross Atkins or Mark Shapiro, if any of this was true? Or Kikuchi, who supposedly rented out that restaurant?”

BICHETTE: “I talked to Kikuchi a little bit about it, yeah. So I kind of knew that the rumors probably weren’t true when he texted me and said: ‘I don’t know what’s going on.’ I figured he would know.”

Been trying to formulate a joke related to Manoah's wedding; it would help if he were the one throwing the bouquet.

I can’t think of one either, so here’s a nice photo of the lads at the wedding reception
https://i.postimg.cc/3R71qX96/IMG-6144.jpg

Gausman, Manoah, Espinal, Romano; far left is Mike on my bowling team; far right, blanking out.

Danny Jansen?

Jansen

Vlad's birthday yesterday:

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/a-look-at-vladdys-career-accomplishments-as-he-turns-25

Their conclusion: "It's easy to forget how young Guerrero still is considering how long he's been around, but it's important to remember what he has done for this team and that his best years are still ahead of him."

My conclusion: "There's 2021, and then there's everything else."

To be fair, one day before Bryce Harper's 26th birthday, I would have summed up his career exactly the same--there was 2015, and then there was everything else. So I know there's lots of time to turn things around. Whether that happens or not--and if it does, whether or not it hpapens in Toronto--nobody knows.

It's a very frustrating team to root for as it feels like they are somewhat close to being a great team, but at the same time that greatness seems unattainable.

Sons watch --

The best player among the three heirs to the throne this season in terms of bWAR has been Cavan Biggio (0.3, same as Bo in 2/3rd the ABs, Vlad is at 0.1)

Gary Varsho erasure

Didn't they have another son in the system within the last five years--one who was drafted low as more of an honorary pick?

They did.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-select-roy-halladays-son-braden-mlb-draft/

At Penn State, it looks like.

Another (rain-shortened) one-run loss. Berrios was so-so.

Omg ohtani

Boos power the man

Sorry, I won't clog up this thread with ohtani talk! I was midway through writing about how much Ill-will ohtani has in Toronto vs. How much he should have? I couldn't remember if he contributed to the bogus Toronto stories or if that was the media being dumb before he hit that bomb.

Chris Bassit scares me. No man should have that many pitches

Can they patch a lineup together if they sit three slumping regulars for a game (or two)? Managers used to that. Vlad, Springer, and Bichette were 1-10 last night and are now hitting .206/.228/.216. Do something, Schneider. Half the city still thinks you're a puppet manager, so if nothing else, maybe you can bank some credibility. (Also wonder how long Schneider will be around.)

Ohtani never uttered a word. Definitely NAGL for Toronto fans to be booing a generational player on the basis of ... what exactly? Social media rumors? Media hype that lasted all of a few hours?

As one of the Beastie Boys said on Joan Rivers once, "Do I detect a note of jealousy?" (In the booing fans, not you.)

Ha! They really do say that (1:20). I worked with a guy in a record store at the time who quoted that line the next day. The way he said it was actually a little funnier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5UaUqH19-Y

Catchers interference on a non-swing. You see something new everyday

Is that not how the rule works?

It is, I'm not complaining! Just never seen one before!

Well I think I've seen one on a borderline, at least touched the plane of the plate, this one stopp3d just before the plate. Will was really reaching for it + Biggio was super laye with it

Heading to the game today. Might boo Ohtani, but only because I want to fit in.

Yimi Garcia's strategy of walking the 9th-place hitter to lead off the 8th so he could get to Betts, Ohtani, and Freeman almost backfired, but he scraped by (by about five feet).

Maybe the only good thing this season so far at the team level--the flip side of not being able to sweep a series--is that they haven't been swept. Because they have four starters who can throw a great game at any time, they're a hard team to sweep. Put those two together, and maybe that's just another way of saying that, in the end, they're a .500 team.

if i'm not mistaken, Jays have tied their longest streak of scoring 5 runs or fewer at 20GP (10W-10L), last achieved in 2008 (8W-12L)

I don't know a shortcut for checking that, but wouldn't be surprised at all--that's hard to do.

Jays' best ever outfield is back in full force this year

GEORGE SPRINGER!!! 😱😱😱 pic.twitter.com/RX9SMQkmJk

— MLB (@MLB) April 28, 2024

best ever outfield defence* 😏

Bell was adequate at best, but Moseby was really good and Barfield was legendary--close call?

i though Bell was terrible?!

when springer made that catch the stadium went so berzerk, my friend's kid started crying from the commotion!

xp

for the 3 main outfielders last year - KK was 2nd in MLB with a 15 OAA, Varsho 4th with 11, and Springer average. I can't speak for the '85 guys, but that's pretty damn good.

Not as close as I thought (and I actually forgot about KK!)--Moseby's dWARS were all negative from '86-88. For all three guys:

1985 - +2.3
1986 - +2.3
2023 - +4.6

Bell's number aren't great across his career, usually ~ -1.0 each season, but in line with lots of other sluggers, think. I'm influenced by something James once wrote, about working for Bell on an arbitration case and the research he did (pre-WAR and everything, obviously) that showed none of Bell's errors that year cost the Jays any wins. My memory, too, is that he was average, but not Dave Kingman out there.

Oops (important correction) -- that should be '84 and '85, not '85 and '86.

they scored 6! First time since Apr 6.

I really enjoyed watching IKF play shortstop. Bo definitely doesn't come with the same level of surety.
Vlad belted a couple hard liners.
and Pearson International with the save - sick curveball to end it after throwing heater after heater in the triple digits.

the KC broadcast is my favourite that I know of - though Rex wasn't there I don't think

Counting down till when the mighty White Sox and Athletics pass the Jays in runs scored.

1 run each of last 2 games since finally scoring 6. this is just sad. Bo was the rock last last year, don't know what could be going on

Why they're no fun in a nutshell (trust this is accurate): "Dating back to last year's All-Star Break, the BlueJays are 0-37 in games they trailed by 3 or more runs. No other team has gone winless in that time."

a smaller nutshell: few home runs

Probably a good day to sneak Manoah in there with all the Leafs post-mortems dominating local media. Wish they'd saved yesterday's rare jump-start for today.

Not pretty, to put it mildly. Gave up a 6-1 lead, couldn't get to the 5th: 4 IP, 6 hits, 4 walks, 6 ER (and one unearned), 92 pitches. Manoah did strike out 6, the one positive. I didn't see it all, but he can't throw a strike when he needs to, and it all seems to flow from there.

It’s at the point where I’ve turned off notifications for this team. I’d rather follow teams that have starters going for my fantasy squad than this dismal shittrain.

The bet on Berríos was pretty much my last reason to pay attention, and that blew up tonight. (I guess I still have to, though, with five of them on my fantasy team.) In all honesty, I want them to be forced into a position to tear it down and start over, rather than limp into September five games out of a WC.

This isn't the bottom yet, the Phillies are a really good team. We have six games against the White Sox in the second half of the month. If they go 2-4 in those games, I will turn off notifications too.

But with games vs MIN, TBR, and BAL coming up before that, things could get ugly (well, uglier) in a hurry.

If this is somehow searchable, I think I have the perfect record for this team to pursue: worst team ever not to get swept all season. How many series does a team play during a year--about 50? Right now, the Jays are 3 games under .500, but 12/12 in not getting swept. They're an easy team to beat but a tough team to sweep.

I was close--Jays will play 52 series in 2024.

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/former-blue-jays-first-round-pick-all-star-begins-toronto-comeback-with-minor-league-deal

The Blue Jays have been turning over rocks looking for minor-league pitching depth in the past week...The latest rock turned up former Blue Jay first round pick and All-Star Aaron Sanchez, who appears to have signed a non-roster, minor-league deal to return to the organization.

"The latest rock"--I like that.

Nice article in the Athletic about Travis Snider and what he's up to these days. In short, he started an organization to provide emotional and psychological support to child athletes. Essentially he wants to make sure kids have the support that he didn't. I didn't know he experienced so much personal tragedy in his life even before breaking into MLB.

It's fun to revisit our old board posts about Snider, this one of mine is a personal fave:

Those "what if?" scenarios might be reasonable if we were dealing with an ordinary manager, but Cito Gaston has a long history of not knowing the first thing about breaking in young players. Longoria's age isn't the point -- he's just one example among plenty that if you've got a top prospect on the big club then you PLAY THEM and stick with them and that's how they become stars. The fact that the team is hitting well at the moment is also not the point -- this is about the big picture, and nobody thinks about that when the team can do no wrong because whatever they're doing now is presumably "working". But the Jays' management is supposed to be thinking about the big picture, which means this: Bautista shouldn't be playing in place of Snider. EVER.

The Jays have been hedging their bets with their young stars for the past 15 years and that's a big reason why the team has been mediocre for so long. They pulled exactly the same crap with Lind last year and they're doing it again with Snider.

― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 18 April 2009 01:03 (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've never been so right *and* so wrong in the same post!

Switched back to the jays when they’d closed the gap to 8-6. Been a real fun two innings.

Only saw the first few innings, but Manoah looked sharp today. He gave up a 3-run HR later on, but it was preceded by an error and all the runs were unearned. At a team level, it doesn't matter--they're deader than dead. But promising for him.

was a very unexpectedly strong performance.

Also was not expecting a win tonight against that team. With that pitcher.

Thou will not be swept; thou will not sweep.

wild game.

I could not make sense of some of the umpires calls. And then that 9th inning. Think I’m going back to not watching their games for a while