Let's Bitch About Our Stupid, Annoying Baseball Team: the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

Was also considering "Toronto Blue Jays Thread #11: Let's Save David Schneider's House," but that would have implied I find this team fun, and I don't.

I love this thread title and I fully approve

We encourage all manner of airing-of-the-grievances in this thread.

As bad as general fan morale here was after the Berrios debacle, I think it's even worse now after a winter of smoke and mirrors and waiting at the altar. If they don't advance past the first round of the playoffs this year, I'd be inclined to take it apart and start over.

this was nice

I hate seeing people talk shit about Toronto like they know it. If you live in Toronto you know how special of a place it is and how passionate the people are #GeauxCanada #GeauxBlueJays 🇨🇦🇨🇦

— Kevin Gausman (@KevinGausman) December 11, 2023

I saw that, and it was. Was it maybe specifically a response to something Costas said?

I will say, that as tone-deaf as Costas's comment might have been in terms of singling out a city, what he said was basically true, right? I'm quite sure MLB and the networks were relieved Ohtani ended up in L.A. instead of here. That seems obvious.

i think it was in response to the american media, in the wake of the ohtani deal, suggesting 'no one would ever willingly sign in toronto'

That's definitely stupid. Past the tax/exchange issues, there is no issue. In the early '90s, everyone wanted to come here.

Kevin Gausman really my favourite Jay

The Jays aren't annoying, they simply don't have a coherent five year plan for competing with the stronger teams in the AL East. Their offense is underperforming and only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024. Everything's cool, folks!

only Bichette and Springer are signed past 2024

The only position players, that is. They might be a 75-win team, but we'll have Gausman ready to go for G1 of the playoffs!

(nothing against Gausman, he's great)

we also have no real option at 3b right now. if we were the 2014 marlins, sure - we could shunt Biggio or Schnider or Espinal over there; or throw Orelvis Martinez or Addison Barger into the deep end as a major league 3b and see what happens. but if the jays want to be a competitive AL east team, they will need to replace that ~4 wins Chapman gave us every year (even with his hot/cold bat). i figured they would go for Candelario as an affordable/average option and then make up those wins elsewhere; but he signed with the reds pretty quickly. so it's either resign Chapman for a lot of money (not the worst option out there) - or trade for another 3b; but outside of - maybe - Kim on the Padres, who even wants to part with an above average 3b?!

ok. apparently in the presser this morning they said they are "comfortable" with our current options at 3b. 2014 marlins it is a guess. (unless this is an attempt to get Chapman to lower his asking)

apparently they are also "talking to" Yariel Rodriguez and Joc Pederson. I like Rodriguez as a 5th/swing man option - but not very excited about Pederson. would rather they go for Hoskins as a LF/1B/DH

Joc was…not good in SF. Entirely possible he turns it around in Toronto. It’s not even so much a performance thing, anyone can have a down year, but Andrew Baggarly called him out repeatedly for his attitude & lack of conditioning in The Athletic (Baggarly felt the Giants should have re-signed Belt).

👀 👀 👀

(via Baggs) pic.twitter.com/YM2vueikN5

— LOLKNBR (@LOLKNBR) September 26, 2023

Reminds me of a certain movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Q0kp8CMFQ

What am I missing here? Were the Jays 10th at the end of last year? (Maybe, but just barely.) It's not like they've gotten better.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-power-rankings-inaugural-2024-edition

Ross Atkins feels good about the team as is, everything's just fine.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/01/ross-atkins-discusses-current-state-of-blue-jays-roster.html#:~:text=Lineup%20regulars%20like%20George%20Springer,the%20loss%20of%20Chapman's%20bat.

Told you so! Everything is peachy.

Everyone who underperformed last year will bounce back and make up for the loss of Chapman, Ohtani, Aaron Judge, Judge Judy, and the Willie Mays cloning project that didn't pan out. When Vlad, Varsho, and Springer combine to hit 190 home runs next year you won't be disappointed!

Looking at that power ranking, I’m not sure which teams below the Jays I’d put above them? Fangraphs has the 2024 jays projected for 5th best war in baseball (yes that’s not the be-all end-all). Understand the future doesn’t look bright and I have no way near the eye test as many of you loyals, but as a follower from the distance the jays still seem like a team with a solid core that suffers from being in one of the toughest divisions in baseball. Was that post season appearance emblematic of the jays season, or were they just worn out? I understand the cynics would like to say option A, but a team that performs like that as a general trend doesn’t get 89 wins imo

I think that 89 wins was their true talent level, which is good enough to be a top 10 MLB but doesn't scream "WS contender". As far as being in one of the toughest divisions, that's been the excuse for 30 years, but the Rays figured out how to crack the Yanks/Red Sox glass ceiling, the Orioles have had good stretches outside of a dry spell in the early 2000's (and are really good now). The Jays need to stop functioning like a woe-is-us mid-market team, there are seven million people in the GTA and they're owned by a huge media conglomerate.

Find myself not caring all that much:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-guerrero-jr-unable-to-reach-deal-ahead-of-arbitration-deadline/

Didn't know there was Vlad Jr. Jr.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/report-mets-sign-16-year-old-prospect-vladi-miguel-guerrero/

Not a video game guy, but yeah, there might have been a better choice or two (or 40)

https://www.sportskeeda.com/baseball/news-you-re-kidding-me-so-many-better-options-fans-left-stunned-mlb-the-show-announces-vladimir-guerrero-jr-cover-athlete

I have no strong feeling towards Justin Turner one way or the other.

remember when they used to pick a different player for the canadian version of the show? i sure do. americans had miggy but we had dang ol' brett lawrie on the show 14 cover

Vlad wins:

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/vladimir-guerrero-jr-wins-record-19-9m-arbitration-hearing-against-toronto-blue-jays-1.2072949

xp ha, yeah! i assumed this was the Canadian cover. I don't think he's a bad pick at all though. Dude is primed to explode imo, if he can avoid the curse of The Show cover athlete (which i'll readily blame Vlad's underwhelming 24 season on)

I used to follow Vladdy on Instagram and he would play The Show after games so it’s nice to have someone who plays the game on the cover. He’s an attention-getting high profile player. It’s fine.

The Athletic gives Toronto's offseason a D

The most memorable part of the Blue Jays’ offseason was a tweet declaring who was decidedly NOT in Toronto (nor headed there, at the moment or eventually). Overall, the Jays’ winter suffered from expectations heightened by their pursuits of Shohei Ohtani or Juan Soto. In a vacuum, bringing back Kevin Kiermaier and bringing in Justin Turner are fine moves; in this vacuum, they leave a kind of … void.

Whereas Alek Manoah’s probably going to be better than his nightmarish 2023, Toronto shouldn’t count on 128 starts from the other four members of their likely rotation. Yariel Rodriguez, who excelled in Japan following a shift to the bullpen, could be a candidate for more innings here.

Offensively, Toronto is hunting rebounds across its lineup, especially from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. But whatever positive regressions accrue there may be mitigated by the loss of Matt Chapman at third, with the light-hitting Isiah Kiner-Falefa (.655 OPS over the last three seasons) slated for significant time on the infield. As with Tampa Bay, Toronto’s offseason feels underwhelmingly unimaginative. In an American League without a behemoth like the Dodgers, that’s a missed opportunity to position yourself nearer to the top.

It's too early to say, obviously. I've had a resentment rattling around in my head about how they've proven they have $600M to play with (yes, Ohtani is a special case), so go land a big one! every contract is going to be terrible, let's be real. it's wait-and-see rn tho

Another utility infielder:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-agree-to-deal-with-veteran-escobar-adding-versatile-infielder/

We're going to lead the league in...scrappiness.

scrappiness

This is very exciting: I now live about a 15-minute walk from Davis Schneider's uniform, in case I'm ever seized by a sudden urge to see it.

Davis Schneider’s uniform from his MLB debut is going to be featured in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame.
https://t.co/d3URSe64NY

— Jays Journal (@JaysJournal) February 17, 2024

Not exactly news, I know:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/hyun-jin-ryu-discussing-contract-with-kbos-hanwha-eagles.html

He’s signed now, I saw

Ah, wrong link--I meant to post about his signing. I don't know if he'll ever make it back--he pitched decently last year, but he's just shy of 37.

Might have decided to cash in and move close to home. Can’t blame him

FB teaser so I'd click: "Check out Alek Manoah's motto for 2024." I clicked, and his new motto is "They don't give out World Series trophies in Triple-A."

I was rooting for "Shut the fuck up."

did he confirm whether or not they give em out in Complex League? 😉

Alex Manoah 2024 ST debut:

IP: 1.2
H: 3
R: 4
ER: 4
BB: 1
K: 0
HRA: 0
XBHA: 2
HBP: Torkelson (by Manoah); Canha (by Manoah); Kelly, C (by Manoah)
ERA: 21.60
WHIP (inc. HBP): 4.20

Yikes. We may have a cerified case of Steve Blass Syndrome here.

Not surprised at all by this outcome

Incredible article about the Ohtani flight tracker and the Blue Jays. Half the roster was at Manoah’s wedding tracking the flight on the golf course!

ROMANO: “I remember where it was. We were sitting by the pool, actually. I was kind of on my phone. And then I was like, ‘NO WAYYYY.’ And then I was telling all the boys. … I was like, ‘Oh, he’s headed there. He’s got to be signing with us.’ So we were all really, really pumped up about it.”

But there were also 18 holes of golf to play. So Romano, Kevin Gausman, Tim Mayza and Danny Jansen hopped in their cart for one of the most distracted rounds of golf ever played.

GAUSMAN: “I remember somebody said, ‘How about this whole Ohtani thing?’ And I was, like, ‘What?’ What do you mean?’ But as we were playing golf, it just got crazier and crazier.”

THE ATHLETIC (TO JORDAN ROMANO): “What about the story where Kikuchi had an entire restaurant reserved for dinner with Ohtani that night? Did you try to confirm that? Did you even question whether Kikuchi would be in Toronto in December?”

ROMANO: “No, because I knew he was. So that made sense. Because I knew he was working out in Toronto. I even knew the place he was working out at. So that was just another piece that just felt like: This is getting real.”

TA: “And since you were at this wedding in Puerto Rico, there was no reason for you to think: ‘Why wouldn’t he have invited me to dinner?’”

ROMANO: “Exactly.”

But not all of Kikuchi’s teammates were content to assume it must be true. Like Bo Bichette, for instance. He went right to the source.

TA: “Did you ever ask anybody, like Ross Atkins or Mark Shapiro, if any of this was true? Or Kikuchi, who supposedly rented out that restaurant?”

BICHETTE: “I talked to Kikuchi a little bit about it, yeah. So I kind of knew that the rumors probably weren’t true when he texted me and said: ‘I don’t know what’s going on.’ I figured he would know.”

Been trying to formulate a joke related to Manoah's wedding; it would help if he were the one throwing the bouquet.

I can’t think of one either, so here’s a nice photo of the lads at the wedding reception
https://i.postimg.cc/3R71qX96/IMG-6144.jpg

Gausman, Manoah, Espinal, Romano; far left is Mike on my bowling team; far right, blanking out.

Danny Jansen?

Jansen

Vlad's birthday yesterday:

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/a-look-at-vladdys-career-accomplishments-as-he-turns-25

Their conclusion: "It's easy to forget how young Guerrero still is considering how long he's been around, but it's important to remember what he has done for this team and that his best years are still ahead of him."

My conclusion: "There's 2021, and then there's everything else."

To be fair, one day before Bryce Harper's 26th birthday, I would have summed up his career exactly the same--there was 2015, and then there was everything else. So I know there's lots of time to turn things around. Whether that happens or not--and if it does, whether or not it hpapens in Toronto--nobody knows.

blue jay nation, i deliver news from the cardinals broadcast - jim edmonds just said the first interesting thing i can ever remember him saying. he said that vlad jr was hitting .383 since the all-star break. i double-checked, because jim edmonds is not to be trusted, and he was right! so i ask, "is vlad jr 'back', or maybe he never left?"

happy 500th rbi to him today

He's definitely back (for now), and the Jays are about to pay very dearly for the combination of not getting him locked down earlier and his impressive resurgence.

Berrios is now 16-9, 3.44. A Cy Young ballot only has 5 spots, and you can't make a case for him as one of the AL's five best pitchers, but if a ballot had the 10 spots and MVP ballot has, I think he'd finish in the Top 10. So my $100 bet maybe wasn't all that bad.

Vlad needs 9 hits in 7 games for 200; still has an outside shot at the batting title, but he'd probably need for Witt to go into free-fall.

only need 6 now and is only 7 points behind Witt!

Yeah, I messed that up. Sample scenario:

Vlad goes 11/22 (205/615), finishes with .333.
Witt goes 7/22 (213/639), finishes with .333.

That would be a dead heat. So: if Vlad can have a big finish, he won't need Witt to fall apart at all.

What’s going on here, George Springer

https://streamable.com/o24sf8

That's funny...He hasn't been down there a lot this year; he's just trying to familiarize himself with what a first baseman looks and feels like.

Blue Jays commentary is very knowledgeable - just watching some of last nights game on mlb.tv and selected the sportsnet stream and they were reeling off a load of info about Justin Slaten. I don’t think I’ve heard a single commentary team tell me about his strikeout to walk ratio before.

Jays fans are spoiled in that regard. the broadcast team is fantastic.

Also, the camera angles are so dynamic, you really get up close to players in the on deck circles

In Toronto today, so caught some talk radio. A couple of hosts went off on Atkins because of something I missed the other day: in a press conference, he said that power is "low-hanging fruit." The playoffs are often a HR showcase--this year, for sure--so not great timing from the GM of a team that finished 26th in HR.

(Two years ago I was urging them to commit to defense and pitching--seemed like the Jays were forever waiting around for the HR, and anemic when it didn't come--so I don't even know where I'm at now.)

Nine years ago today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UdsVO7HaJg

I'll never forget how I felt at that moment. I still watch this clip from time to time, it never loses its power no matter how many times I see it.

I do too, sometimes finding some excuse to play it in class. Pretty sure I'll never experience another baseball moment like it.

https://www.facebook.com/TorontoBlueJaysBaseballFans/videos/1575967349663775

I don't know if that will work--Teoscar talking about Toronto with Hazel Mae.

tho it was apparently "expected" - i don't get non tendering Romano

So what do you do now, Shapiro and Atkins? Good luck.

i don't get letting Romano walk. like, i get why they might have, but unless his arm is actually toast and they're the only ones that know, it was fucking stupid. $7.5M to keep a fan fav for one more year.

What do you think of them putting $760m in for Soto?!

I think they've backed themselves into a real corner. They now have to wildly overpay Vlad and/or Bo, or just let them walk. How do you nickel-and-dime them now, when your high-profile pursuit of Soto (and Ohtani) is common knowledge?

Sorry for the violent analogy, but it's the old thing about killing the king--you'd better not miss.

Not big on Romano, Thermo, but for that money, you're probably right. I'd be happier with him as a set-up guy, though.

for Soto - as amazing a hitter he is, i don't think he is worth that kind of money and it would have looked super bad throwing stupid money at a guy that can't play the field when you've failed to extend the face of the franchise and let a hometown guy and fan fav skate, who easily could have ben kept for 1/100 of what they tried giving Soto.

The Toronto Blue Jays: meeting all your leverage needs since 2023.

i don't know what you're talking about tho clem, with romano being better suited for set up. in the three years he was the closer, his ERA was 2.37, 7.4 WAR (avg 2.5 per season), 178 ERA+. his last season was a mess, but that easily explained by his injuries. either those injuries are career altering, or the front office are idiots.
and i am not one of these arm chair GMs that needs to crap on "shatkins" over every little thing – but i am pretty fed up at this point.

i'm also steamed they didn't being Jansen back, because him and Kirk were a great tandem. tho it's entirely possible Jansen wanted all the playing time and wouldn't have come back either way

I'd like to have a shutdown guy. I want Tom Henke. K, K, weak contact infield hit, K. Maybe my memory's a little selective there.

Romano never felt like that to me. Adventure time more often than not.

for Soto - as amazing a hitter he is, i don't think he is worth that kind of money and it would have looked super bad throwing stupid money at a guy that can't play the field when you've failed to extend the face of the franchise and let a hometown guy and fan fav skate, who easily could have ben kept for 1/100 of what they tried giving Soto.

After striking out with Soto and Ohtani, Vlad's leverage with Jays' management has never been higher. They're in a tough spot because next year's team isn't looking like a serious contender, and if they aren't trying to win, they should be trading away the few valuable assets they have now, not mid-season.

Funny and embarrassing:

Me: "You've got to get a new shirt."
Vice-Principal: "How so?"
Me: "He's gone now."
VP: "He's been gone for a while."

He had on a Ricky Romero jersey that I read as Romano.

That VP is a True Fan to be wearing that jersey in 2024.

You can school him (heh) by showing up in a Juan Guzman jersey tomorrow.

I won't even let him off that easy next time I'm back here--I'm going full Otto Velez on him.

I actually like the trade the Jays made today--seems like a steal to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

https://www.mlb.com/news/blue-jays-guardians-andres-gimenez-trade

I bet it's the first trade ever with two Nicks involved.

I don’t get why they are trading for 2B when it’s a 3b we really need.

Giminez's bat has been trending downwards, so consider me a skeptic on this trade.

The two-year decline is cause for concern, agree. But the way I see it: 7.5 WAR two years ago, MVP candidate. Even last year, still a 4.0 guy because of defense. He's only 25 or 26, they got what looks to be a very servicable bullpen arm too (Nick #1), and Horowitz is 28 and basically going nowhere. The wild card is Nick #2, who I looked up and has very good university numbers.

we also didn't need to upgrade our defence. we saw what happens when the "defensive team of the year" isn't scoring runs. they miss the playoffs.

Was hoping they'd go after Arenado for third, but I just read the Jays aren't one of his six approved destinations...Giminez has to go back to hitting, yes; I don't want him just for defense.

I assume anyone with any no trade clause whatsoever would have Toronto first and for most because big scary other country might take his guns or some dumb shit like that

arenado was one of the two cardinals who refused to play the blue jays / get vaccinated during the 2020 covid season. the other was goldschmidt

i would guess the blue jays aren't on his list because he doesn't see them contending for the WS in the near future. the teams he's considering are the "Dodgers and Yankees along with the Los Angeles Angels, San Diego Padres, Philadelphia Phillies and Boston Red Sox"

(i think the Angels are on his list, despite their low WS odds, because he's from orange county)

Gotta be more to it, Z, if the Angels are on his list. The anti-vaxx thing may figure in--maybe he thinks we're Communists up here.

see my addendum! shockingly, this anti-vaxx guy is from orange county

Crossed posts with you...Nixon Country.

Only #5, although it's tough to argue that we have it worse than the #1-#4 teams.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/43062978/mlb-2024-10-most-frustrated-fan-bases-angels-mariners-cubs-cardinals

I saw it all as clear as day when I titled this thread.

This made me laugh when it turned up on my FB wall, because I thought it was becoming like a Pavlovian Response: lose a bidding war, sign a glove.

https://www.mlb.com/news/myles-straw-acquired-by-blue-jays

But in fact, the move was made to free up funds in their international bonus pool space (something I now know exists). So: welcome aboard, another glove!

yes. he a a bi-product of the Jays getting jerked around for a second year in a row