The inability to strike a deal is the latest blow for the 2025 Toronto Blue Jays

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/43902038/vladimir-guerrero-jr-blue-jays-fail-reach-contract-extension

Guerrero, a four-time All-Star and son of Hall of Famer Vladimir Guerrero, said he had set a deadline of 9 p.m. Monday, but the last call from the Blue Jays came at 10:30 p.m. When asked if the team was close to what he was asking, Guerrero simply said, "No."

They could have signed him to a Tatis Jr.-like extension years ago. After striking out on the big-time free agents like Soto and Ohtani, they come crawling back to Vladdy with a lowball offer in his walk year. Well played, Jays front office!!

I don’t really know if that’s true, he doesn’t need the money and he wouldn’t have signed coming off a down season. If he turned down the guts of half a billion, what are you going to do? He’s very very good but he’s a first baseman and we just saw the market laugh at Pete Alonso for asking for a much smaller sum of money - and Pete is older but he’s also a power hitter in a defensively unimportant role.

You can dissect things and engage in both sides-isms, but the big picture is this: they signed him at age 16 and spent years grooming him to be the cornerstone of the franchise, and they're not even *remotely close* to signing him.

I might amend that verb choice there lmao

Haha point taken

Where are you seeing this was a low ball offer?

@KeeganMatheson
Mark Shapiro on the #BlueJays’ negotiations with Vladimir Guerrero Jr:
“We were emotional. We did value the player deeply, and even went past our value because we cared so deeply about him and wanted to have him here.”

what an off-putting statement

Lol i’d tell the first journo i could find that i want a trade if i heard that

“We have tenses in spanish dawg…”

I'm assuming it was a low ball offer due to the reactions of the two sides. It's clear they're nowhere close to an agreement.

i'm not a fan of this front office, but i'm not ready to put the blame 100% on them just yet. ortiz was saying Vlad should be getting 3 years, $585m; which seems crazy to me (which obviously doesn't mean thats what vladdy was asking for, but if those are the numbers some people are putting in his ear, that's not good).

i do agree they had a long time to lock him and should have done so a long time ago. i would love it if he were to be a Jay for life – but he's also been frustrating to watch at times too (the base running errors especially). and sorry to both sides this, but i wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case. i just can't see the FO, knowing their jobs are on the line, putting all that work into guys like Soto and Ohtani etc and then phoning in the Vlad negotiations.

If they couldn't (or wouldn't) sign him then they could have traded him like the Nationals did with Soto. Letting him walk for essentially nothing (we're not there yet, but it could happen) is indefensible and will lead to firings (although Atkins and Shapiro's contracts are nearly up too). I'm not saying it's an easy situation, but these are franchise-altering decisions and it's up to the FO to make them. What's their plan? I haven't a clue.

I also think it's disingenuous of the FO to not sign him when he was underachieving (because it was too risky) and to not sign him once he breaks out again (because he's asking for too much money). There's always risk involved, you can't play "wait and see" forever. And if you don't want to take the risk, you trade him and move the club in a different direction.

Feels like given the money they spent they should see how the season plays out.

especially with our anemic minor league system... if Vlad and Bo are gone, we have an expensive pitching staff / outfield and not much to fill the shoes in 2026. they got some decent fliers at least years trade deadline, but them and guys like Barger, Orelvis and Roden aren't going to be enough.

xpost

i mean - who's to say Vlad was open to discussing an extension after his off years tho

3 years, $585m; which seems crazy to me

i assume you/they meant 13 years? that's obviously a ton of money, especially considering his body type and defensive limitations, but $45m/yr doesn't seem beyond the pale in this day and age

“ There's always risk involved, you can't play "wait and see" forever. And if you don't want to take the risk, you trade him and move the club in a different direction.”

Skywrite this over camden yards

Rogers can definitely afford that money without blinking but I don’t really get why they spent all those…loonies…? on the stadium and not the marquee star to poster it with.

ya 13 years. but paying a guy that much until he's 38 – an inconsistently decent-to-great hitter who routinely makes me cringe at horrible base-running blunders. even with rogers stupid money, i'm not making that commitment.

anyways, fun fact: i am very good friends with the guy who prints those posters! and yes, he has given me 6 foot vinyl banners, one of which hands from my deck (yes i am a giant dork)

the miguel cabrera deal got pretty ugly at the end, but i'd be surprised if many tigers fans regretted it. vlad's top similar batter through age 25 is eddie murray, and there just aren't too many guys like that around. picking up a few wins cheaply on the margins won't help if there's no foundation

(tbf, his no. 3 similar batter through age 25 is prince fielder, so yeah it's a risk!)

I'm still halfway. 1) Secretly happy that someone else is going to overpay him wildly for a couple of good-to-great seasons followed by a prolonged decline and all the frustration TT talks about; 2) embarrassed by how badly Shapiro and Atkins have handled everything--"it's disingenuous of the FO to not sign him when he was underachieving (because it was too risky) and to not sign him once he breaks out again (because he's asking for too much money)" is exactly right. I can throw up my hands and say I don't know what to do, but I'm not management.

Apparently offered Vlad half a billion dollars!

Are you sure? First thing my bowling friend told me tonight was he asked for that much.

Heyman is saying that was the offer. So grain of salt

You’re both right but the difference is deferrals vs present value - he wants present value and Jays offered deferrals

The inability to strike a deal is the latest blow for the 2025 Toronto Blue Jays.

Fucking hyped the Roden might crack the team!

He has cracked the team!

Had to look him up. That's some kind of spring, if you put any stock in that (did get him on the roster): .423/.556/.731.

He was taken 3rd overall but went very much under the radar for a while. but slashing .298/.407/.453/.860 over his minor league career, people started taking note some time in 2023

I watched some of his spring training highlights, he looked really good from what I saw. Quick, compact swing. Jays outfielders were awful on offense last year, Roden can only improve things.

Third HR for Giménez tonight.

Best cleanup hitter of our lifetime

I too was in first place three days ago (in the ILX fantasy league) and have fallen to sixth before blinking. So keeping the bandwagon at arm's length for a little longer.

Only the 10th game, but Toronto seems to be settling into something close to what they've been the past couple of years: weak offense (under four runs per game), relying on winning close games through pitching and defense. They're got a winning record and a negative run differential. This doesn't bode well. Their starters are good, but the '71 Orioles they're not; they look to have a better closer this year, but it's not enough.

Guess the thread needs a new name.
When I watched him weakly ground out to end the game today, somehow I knew. I knew this guy was about to get half a billion dollars.

Congrats to all.

bless

There you go. Good work from Shatkins.

The ability to strike a deal is the latest blow to those who want to complain about the Jays

lol Thermo. I'm definitely in that kinda headspace on this

lol thermo XD

The ability to strike a deal is the latest blow to those who want to complain about the Jays

Have you never heard Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good"?

Was in Toronto today, so got two hours of Blair & Barker on the way home. Fans calling in, very excited. The best thing about it, I think, is what one of their guests said: you don't spend this much money unless you're ready to spend more money. So it's a big first step, but only--hopefully--a first step.

I wonder how long it is till there will be enough contenders to create a “worst contract out of these $500 million contracts” poll

Link may or may not work (Facebook): Jeff Blair from this afternoon's show.

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1313033066439396

(Kevin Barker unusually subdued--his schtick is usually unbearable.)

4-4 for Springer, now .455 with 8 RBI.

and tied for 2nd on the team in Home Runs! ;)

First place at 7-5!

Your post got me to check mlb.com, and those doubles got me to--wait for it--turn on the TV and watch. Glad I didn't invest more than those three minutes. (Seriously: I have posted many, many times about the Jays' complete inability to get something going and then keep it going. Sweeping Seattle and getting to .500 virtually guaranteed some kind of ugly loss tonight.)

Sweeping Seattle and getting to .500 virtually guaranteed some kind of ugly loss tonight.

I wanted to post something to this effect after the Seattle series, but didn't want to seem pessimistic.

I'd have a hard time describing it, and often wonder if I've gotten to where I'm just hypersensitive to something that's normal plexiglass/return-to-mean stuff. So it's good to hear that someone else notices too.

it's the Toronto team syndrome. very good at getting your hopes up, elite all-time great at brutally dashing those hopes

which, by the way, we may see more of tonight. also i will be at the jays game.

Well the jays came though for me today! Pretty empty, especially for a giveaway day, but really great/fun game. Springer even waved to me lol

Jays scaling the heights! All credit due--sweeping the Padres is something, especially after falling behind in extras today (when I switched off, of course).

First the 14-0 shutout, now coming back twice in extras to win. What's happening? I feel like they were energized by Varsho's return, he's been part of a lot of big moments.

I have no idea who #4-9 are and I'd like to think I'm pretty up on MLB teams/players.

Clase was a quasi prospect the Jays got from seattle last year for Garcia and Barger was one of the better hitting prospects in the jays (low bar) system. Barger has looked solid lately and was good to see Clase finally have himself a day (and put that speed to use)

this lineup is majority AAAA's most of the time. am i wrong?

Noooo… Kirk, Vlad, Gimminez (currently injured), Bo, Varsho, Springer & Santander… that’s just two lineup slots being filled by AAAA types.

of course not, i was speaking from my emotional mind there (reinforced by pre-varsho lineups/tony and andres having bad years)

1. SS Bo Bichette
2. 1B Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
3. DH Daulton Varsho
4. 3B Addison Barger
5. 2B Ernie Clement
6. RF Nathan Lukes
7. LF Jonatan Clase
8. CF Myles Straw
9. C Tyler Heineman

but given my weakened constitution, you're throwing this at me? hahaha

i mean, they beat the pads with this lineup, and i'm not saying there's not real talent in there

Lukes, Straw & Heineman all AAAA/cast-off types that've been doing much better than expected so far to say the least.
Roden has absolutely been destroying AAA since getting demoted too.

Their performances have been great, no denying. I think my posts are more about how (unduly!) sure I am that the whole structure cannot maintain itself without better.. names, i guess.

Yimi hitting the IL now - not gonna be easy without him. they were kinda making implications of his overuse on the broadcast, but from what I can tell the bullpen seems to have been pretty evenly spread out.

Took all that momentum from the Padres series and exploded for two runs over three games in Tampa Bay.

The blue jays way.

Also, why is Brandon lowe so full of hate for the blue jays?!

not bad, managed 2/3 in Tampa 😎

Hope you can access this--kind of amazing from today's game:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/948327367287963

It would be churlish to complain about the Jays getting blown out at home tonight (by a really good team) when they're just coming off a four-game sweep, right? I shouldn't do that, right?

Especially if we still got treated to a Barger moon shot

Does he have a nickname yet? I vote for Sonny.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Barger

Well, scanning that, maybe not.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Kirk so excited! Weirdly emotional win beating our much beloved old closer

Part of me is of course caught up in the excitement of this latest tease, while the draggy skeptic looks at Bo's resurgence and sees them about to repeat Vlad's fantasyland contract all over again.

xps how about Mayor McBarge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McBarge
The McBarge, officially named the Seaborne II (formerly the Friendship 500), was a former McDonald's restaurant, built on a 187-foot-long (57 m)[1] barge for Expo '86 in Vancouver, British Columbia

maybe my links will work!

Watching them lately hasn’t been this much fun since the Bautista years! 5 series wins in a row with two sweeps. Every game entertaining as hell.
Two things I’ve noticed about them this year that they sucked at before - they are not making bad outs on the base paths and they are suddenly amazing at getting down bunts

I'm still wary, but getting there--tuning in in the car regularly. One possible good thing is that this surge has been without Santander and Varsho, you could maybe add Scherzer and Manoah, plus Vlad has been just so-so. (Or Vlad has just been Vlad, but that's another topic.) So when Kirk and some of the others come back down to the earth, there are openings to make up for that.

Kirk has to be top five or so for MVP right now (behind another catcher, obviously).

Well...top 10 for sure.

That is a thing I’m concerned about. The back of our order is not likely to be able to keep carrying us. Clement, Straw, Lukes, Heineman… they can’t all keep hitting out of their minds. And then what happens when they come back down to earth?

That's where I think there's realistic hope, though--that that inevitability will be countered by the return of Varsho and Santander, and also a more productive Vlad (and maybe a better Bo, who's also just "pretty good" right now). Santander seems key.

Still hoping Roden pans out! Dude was destroying AAA. Was a little annoyed he didn’t play more when they called him back up

Everyone is hitting it hard, no one less than Springer, who's great to watch right now. Keeping up on fastballs and launching pitches. He's always had a low whiff rate, but it seems he's having particularly good at-bats. Best he's been since year one with us.

low chase* rate

I guess they flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami.

I’m glad I stuck with this game!!!

Miracle of miracles--got home from tennis, tuned in for the bottom of the 9th. I saw it all!

Jesus Barger is getting fun as hell to watch

Addison Barger really is a cool name.

ESPN ranked MLB lineups and the Jays are 8th!

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45525740/mlb-2025-midseason-lineup-offense-rankings-dodgers-yankees-cubs-mets

If you'd told me that a month ago I would have said you were high, but at the moment I really do think it's a top ten offense. Nobody is exactly mashing, but there aren't many easy outs either. I think they have more comeback wins already than all of last season.

yeah, I also watched the bottom of the 9th yesterday. Contrary to last year where every time they were behind it felt insurmountable, I felt like they legitimately had a chance to come back here and this win wasn't a total surprise. They have suddenly become a fun team to watch.

Barger snuck in a nice little bat flip.

One actually useful bit of information I learned from Blair and Barker yesterday: Vlad thrives in the third spot. For his career:

Batting 3rd (2188 PA): .300/.377/.538
Anywhere else (1665 PA): .271/.348/.449

I don't know the psychology there, or if there is any, but that's a pretty decent sample size.

Was there for the giveaway today. Fun game - got a seat in the new bleachers and got tossed a ball before the game started

broadcast was saying Kirk has the highest Hard Hit % in the AL

via Savant

Kirk 56.3
Judge 55.5
Devers* 55.2
Vladdy 55.1

Wow

Will absolutely be the second AL catcher into the ASG.