The inability to strike a deal is the latest blow for the 2025 Toronto Blue Jays

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/43902038/vladimir-guerrero-jr-blue-jays-fail-reach-contract-extension

Guerrero, a four-time All-Star and son of Hall of Famer Vladimir Guerrero, said he had set a deadline of 9 p.m. Monday, but the last call from the Blue Jays came at 10:30 p.m. When asked if the team was close to what he was asking, Guerrero simply said, "No."

They could have signed him to a Tatis Jr.-like extension years ago. After striking out on the big-time free agents like Soto and Ohtani, they come crawling back to Vladdy with a lowball offer in his walk year. Well played, Jays front office!!

I don’t really know if that’s true, he doesn’t need the money and he wouldn’t have signed coming off a down season. If he turned down the guts of half a billion, what are you going to do? He’s very very good but he’s a first baseman and we just saw the market laugh at Pete Alonso for asking for a much smaller sum of money - and Pete is older but he’s also a power hitter in a defensively unimportant role.

You can dissect things and engage in both sides-isms, but the big picture is this: they signed him at age 16 and spent years grooming him to be the cornerstone of the franchise, and they're not even *remotely close* to signing him.

I might amend that verb choice there lmao

Haha point taken

Where are you seeing this was a low ball offer?

@KeeganMatheson
Mark Shapiro on the #BlueJays’ negotiations with Vladimir Guerrero Jr:
“We were emotional. We did value the player deeply, and even went past our value because we cared so deeply about him and wanted to have him here.”

what an off-putting statement

Lol i’d tell the first journo i could find that i want a trade if i heard that

“We have tenses in spanish dawg…”

I'm assuming it was a low ball offer due to the reactions of the two sides. It's clear they're nowhere close to an agreement.

i'm not a fan of this front office, but i'm not ready to put the blame 100% on them just yet. ortiz was saying Vlad should be getting 3 years, $585m; which seems crazy to me (which obviously doesn't mean thats what vladdy was asking for, but if those are the numbers some people are putting in his ear, that's not good).

i do agree they had a long time to lock him and should have done so a long time ago. i would love it if he were to be a Jay for life – but he's also been frustrating to watch at times too (the base running errors especially). and sorry to both sides this, but i wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case. i just can't see the FO, knowing their jobs are on the line, putting all that work into guys like Soto and Ohtani etc and then phoning in the Vlad negotiations.

If they couldn't (or wouldn't) sign him then they could have traded him like the Nationals did with Soto. Letting him walk for essentially nothing (we're not there yet, but it could happen) is indefensible and will lead to firings (although Atkins and Shapiro's contracts are nearly up too). I'm not saying it's an easy situation, but these are franchise-altering decisions and it's up to the FO to make them. What's their plan? I haven't a clue.

I also think it's disingenuous of the FO to not sign him when he was underachieving (because it was too risky) and to not sign him once he breaks out again (because he's asking for too much money). There's always risk involved, you can't play "wait and see" forever. And if you don't want to take the risk, you trade him and move the club in a different direction.

Feels like given the money they spent they should see how the season plays out.

especially with our anemic minor league system... if Vlad and Bo are gone, we have an expensive pitching staff / outfield and not much to fill the shoes in 2026. they got some decent fliers at least years trade deadline, but them and guys like Barger, Orelvis and Roden aren't going to be enough.

xpost

i mean - who's to say Vlad was open to discussing an extension after his off years tho

3 years, $585m; which seems crazy to me

i assume you/they meant 13 years? that's obviously a ton of money, especially considering his body type and defensive limitations, but $45m/yr doesn't seem beyond the pale in this day and age

“ There's always risk involved, you can't play "wait and see" forever. And if you don't want to take the risk, you trade him and move the club in a different direction.”

Skywrite this over camden yards

Rogers can definitely afford that money without blinking but I don’t really get why they spent all those…loonies…? on the stadium and not the marquee star to poster it with.

ya 13 years. but paying a guy that much until he's 38 – an inconsistently decent-to-great hitter who routinely makes me cringe at horrible base-running blunders. even with rogers stupid money, i'm not making that commitment.

anyways, fun fact: i am very good friends with the guy who prints those posters! and yes, he has given me 6 foot vinyl banners, one of which hands from my deck (yes i am a giant dork)

the miguel cabrera deal got pretty ugly at the end, but i'd be surprised if many tigers fans regretted it. vlad's top similar batter through age 25 is eddie murray, and there just aren't too many guys like that around. picking up a few wins cheaply on the margins won't help if there's no foundation

(tbf, his no. 3 similar batter through age 25 is prince fielder, so yeah it's a risk!)

I'm still halfway. 1) Secretly happy that someone else is going to overpay him wildly for a couple of good-to-great seasons followed by a prolonged decline and all the frustration TT talks about; 2) embarrassed by how badly Shapiro and Atkins have handled everything--"it's disingenuous of the FO to not sign him when he was underachieving (because it was too risky) and to not sign him once he breaks out again (because he's asking for too much money)" is exactly right. I can throw up my hands and say I don't know what to do, but I'm not management.

Apparently offered Vlad half a billion dollars!

Are you sure? First thing my bowling friend told me tonight was he asked for that much.

Heyman is saying that was the offer. So grain of salt

You’re both right but the difference is deferrals vs present value - he wants present value and Jays offered deferrals

The inability to strike a deal is the latest blow for the 2025 Toronto Blue Jays.

Fucking hyped the Roden might crack the team!

He has cracked the team!

Had to look him up. That's some kind of spring, if you put any stock in that (did get him on the roster): .423/.556/.731.

He was taken 3rd overall but went very much under the radar for a while. but slashing .298/.407/.453/.860 over his minor league career, people started taking note some time in 2023

I watched some of his spring training highlights, he looked really good from what I saw. Quick, compact swing. Jays outfielders were awful on offense last year, Roden can only improve things.

Third HR for Giménez tonight.

Best cleanup hitter of our lifetime

I too was in first place three days ago (in the ILX fantasy league) and have fallen to sixth before blinking. So keeping the bandwagon at arm's length for a little longer.

Only the 10th game, but Toronto seems to be settling into something close to what they've been the past couple of years: weak offense (under four runs per game), relying on winning close games through pitching and defense. They're got a winning record and a negative run differential. This doesn't bode well. Their starters are good, but the '71 Orioles they're not; they look to have a better closer this year, but it's not enough.

Guess the thread needs a new name.
When I watched him weakly ground out to end the game today, somehow I knew. I knew this guy was about to get half a billion dollars.

Congrats to all.

bless

There you go. Good work from Shatkins.

The ability to strike a deal is the latest blow to those who want to complain about the Jays

lol Thermo. I'm definitely in that kinda headspace on this

lol thermo XD

The ability to strike a deal is the latest blow to those who want to complain about the Jays

Have you never heard Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good"?

Was in Toronto today, so got two hours of Blair & Barker on the way home. Fans calling in, very excited. The best thing about it, I think, is what one of their guests said: you don't spend this much money unless you're ready to spend more money. So it's a big first step, but only--hopefully--a first step.

I wonder how long it is till there will be enough contenders to create a “worst contract out of these $500 million contracts” poll

Link may or may not work (Facebook): Jeff Blair from this afternoon's show.

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1313033066439396

(Kevin Barker unusually subdued--his schtick is usually unbearable.)

4-4 for Springer, now .455 with 8 RBI.

and tied for 2nd on the team in Home Runs! ;)

First place at 7-5!

Hoffman's a grown-up, he can handle it. And if he can't, then who cares? Every player wants to be the star, but management has to decide who to trust and who to relegate to a supporting role. That's team sports for you. If they want to win, somebody has to make some tough decisions, and fast.

Gausman missed throwing a maddux by going one pitch over! what a performance.

I was there! (Will post a couple of photos tomorrow.) That will almost certainly be the last CG shutout in the entire history of baseball, and I was there to see it. Even if, as always, I talked so much I needed a little help to keep up. Me: "If he gets out of this inning, I wonder if they'll actually send Gausman out for the ninth?" My friend Steve: (points at scoreboard).

I really hope the Jays pay attention to this in the postseason:

Bassitt (home): 8-0, 2.76
Bassitt (away): 3-8, 5.42

And again pitching very well at home tonight.

Okay, might be hurt now--carry on.

Every Blue Jay fan's worst nightmare: leading 2-1 going into the 8th.

3-1 now, but still worrisome

Looks like the human t-ball stand is going to come out at some point in the 9th

Jays' success right now seems to hinge so much on dodging Hoffman: Gausman yesterday, big 8th inning tonight.

And, to state the obvious, you can only get away with that for so long.

Another come from behind! Back of the order just chipping away. Love it

Had our big tennis tournament today, but caught the last two innings in a pub. First time in ages I've been demonstrative about a Jays game in that kind of setting in years.

So many seeing-eye hits! It was a lucky win, but we'll take it.

Our saviour:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-set-to-promote-trey-yesavage-to-majors/

Kidding--but I do hope he pitches well enough to find a spot on the postseason roster (unless they've already decided that won't happen regardless).

kinda surprising to hear he's going to start a game, after they just moved lauer to the pen

Here’s my picks:
https://postimg.cc/fJ41ZgNW

Jesus Christ. Wrong thread somehow

I'm 4-0 for the year now, just crushing it. (If they lose when we're down, Thermo, it won't be my fault.) Of course I missed Springer's home run when I was on my way back with popcorn (and not looking at a monitor.) You really have to watch other teams to fully appreciate how good our outfield--CF in particular, obviously--defense is.

I totally forgot we have that game coming up!

And here I thought it was the highlight of your 2025 social calendar.

Gausman on Thursday (we were up high):

https://i.postimg.cc/zfqvv7CZ/IMG-5277.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/7Zk01g3X/IMG-5280.jpg

Today (almost field level):

https://i.postimg.cc/XvvZxxpK/IMG-5288.jpg

Plus some expert game footage I shot of Barger's bases-clearing double (all the the inane bellowing is not us--I can be heard at the end: "I'm now officially one of those people...").

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKiB-dmyxAI

Great seats!

Lmao that video is great

I'm available for weddings and bar mitzvahs, too...meanwhile, Vlad likes to toss baseballs into the crowd, and the guy two rows down managed to catch one while holding two extra-large hot dogs in his left hand.

Yesavage gets the start tonight against the Rays...If you don't know him, he was our first-round pick in 2024; his combined 2025 line (A/A+/AA/AAA):

5-1, 3.12, 98 IP, 54 H, 8 HR, 41 BB, 160 K, 0.969 WHIP

A 14.7 K rate! (Walks are a little high tho)

Had trivia tonight, so I just caught from the 8th on; assume he was awesome, though.

Caught up with the highlights..Such an unusual delivery; was is Palmer who threw straight overhand?

Don’t know about Palmer - but that debut was wild. At one point missed an immaculate inning by one missed call!

Not life or death, but that was a terrible call (Jeffrey Maier-type play).

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/blue-jays-vs-rays/2025/09/16/776305/live/live

There's a clip of the play in here--should have been fan interference.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/rays-awarded-home-run-vs-blue-jays-after-confusing-fan-interference-review/

The ruling was that the fan didn't (conclusively) reach out into the field of play. To me it looks perfectly clear that he did. Bad call. At least it didn't cost them the game.

If we end up losing the bye, would have hated having that play lurk in the background. Lukes might have caught it, he might not have--but who knows, he never got the chance.

As of today, the Jays are a .500 team all-time: 3850-3850.

Is that actually the first time ever? I thought maybe they would have hit .500 sometime in the '92 or '93 season.

well they are 27 games over .500 this year, last year they finished 14 under .500, but in 2023 they were 16 games over .500, so they would have been slightly over .500 at the end of the 2023 season at least

They've probably been there a few times then.

wait, rereading my post I am realizing that my math is totally wrong, they would have been at 13 games under 500 at the end of the 2023 season, so yeah, maybe first time

Did a quick plus/minus in my head from their BRef franchise page, and if my math is correct, they edged above .500 at the end of the '93 season.

Very detailed explanation from Dan Schulman of the non-interference call last night--complicated.

Starting with the fact that NY agreed there was interference, at which point it becomes a case of three questions.

I feel like with Lucas so close to the ball there - it’s fucking insane to give the batter benefit of the doubt when they acknowledge there was interference.

Thinking of how anemic last year's offense was, these last two games are a little ominous.

Depending upon how the weekend goes, I may be moving over to the doomposting thread.

Yankees has six left against the Orioles and three with the White Sox; depending upon how engaged the Orioles are, could easily see them taking seven.

This is what keeps older Jays fans awake at night (I think the other regular Jays posters are younger than me but old enough to remember):

https://i.postimg.cc/MHY1FffP/collapse.jpg

The kindness of strangers...The one huge difference between this year and '87 is that we have no games left with the Yankees. I'm sure the math is more complicated than this, but intuitively it feels like the Yankees needing to make up three games by winning while we lose to someone else is twice as difficult as three head-to-head games.

Geez--I bailed when it was 7-1, and it was 10-1 last time I looked. Had no idea about anything after that. That is an ugly, concerning loss (because of Scherzer and because of the three hits--two runs in three games--more than the score).

The Tyler Heineman game. Ten runs given up by a catcher isn't something you see every day.