The Roman Empire: Boston Red Sox 2025

https://i.imgur.com/yeC4Q7K.jpeg

THEY’RE READY. But are they?

https://i.imgur.com/1M6MVEO.jpeg

Where/how much does Ceddanne play?
Can Trevor Story make it through a season?
Will they actually play Yoshida in the outfield?
Is this Casas’s last year on the team?
Will Garrett Crochet be great, or merely good?
Will I ever stop booing Aroldis Chapman? (No.)

All these questions, and more, answered in this thread!

Ceddanne’s swing decisions have been excellent in spring training. He’s like a different hitter in that respect. Going to create some difficult decisions.

We’ll see. Didn’t he hit over 300 in spring training last year? Really like him but we looked for the same last year and it didn’t quite play out.

I didn’t see those ABs but I’ve been paying attention this time and he really does not chase and miss, it’s wild.

Ceddy (R) would look to be a lock for CF. Putting Duran (L) in LF and Abreyu (L) in right. But whither the Roman Empire? Whither Yoshida? Two too many OFs by my lights, with Ref a cheap backup rightie and Campbell able to play out there too.

Kcam is marked for the infield I think but I could see him in a utility role. It’s genuinely shocking to me Abreu is still on the roster. Ofc, trading Duran solves a lot of problems. I would guess Anthony won’t be on the Opening Day regardless? Passan says the whole Devers shitshow is for due to management really wanting to clear a path for Kcam.

What’s almost more interesting to me is Mayer cos Story can opt out at the end of the year, which he could do if he has a good year, and would be the least messy solution going.

🙏

ESPN had a pretty lol piece on the Red Sox incredible training methods for delivering a golden generation of hitters… that boiled down to “they take a lot of very fancy BP.”

There were some interesting nuggets in that Passan piece but that is pretty fair actually. It’s not really that different from what most teams do but it was framed like Boston had cracked a secret code

I was kind of surprised seeing people talk about that article like it was the gospel, but I don’t think Passan has seriously covered the team for years so it’s a big deal.

I think the initial bat speed training program was introduced by Chaim when he overhauled the minors.

I need this yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iCBiPLXnjA

https://dnm.nflximg.net/api/v6/2DuQlx0fM4wd1nzqm5BFBi6ILa8/AAAAQZOYARZDvYxYORTO_fRGQD8uWL-XshmwGW6VTLHJ-tfRmIdz_rHh2Uw6C-GJBw2b9awjVi5Ijn4ffz_L0wXOC-JK6KO8TCmZga3jJvseplfs4v97G_mWWZeCoJ1FKHx8PTnahITMDxBSFpFrzsYxh2un.jpg?r=b8c

lfg

Connor Wong is so photogenic

He’s got a face made to be superimposed over a horizon at 50% opacity

This top 5 fucks IMO. From the bad site:

Cora is leaning toward a top five in batting order of Duran, Devers, Bregman, Casas and Story

Kristian Campbell has made the opening day roster!

pretty expensive DH they got in the lineup with Devers

It's not my money

The BoSox invented the expensive DH.

I think they would handle his fielding at third fine if he didn’t cop an injury 2/3 of the way through every season and limp to the end of the year while his production falls off a cliff. It’s what it is. Mishandled by the org imo.

It’s genuinely shocking to me Abreu is still on the roster.

i for one am quite happy he was on the roster today

I don’t mean it in a Wilyer is bad way, I mean it in a Roman Anthony is coming way. My actual preference to trade OFers would be Duran before Wilyer any day btw because Duran is 29 this year and his legs aren’t going to last forever.

I wrote about the last time Wilyer carved up the Rangers here: Post by Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac) from Jack Morris Pitching to the Score, David Eckstein Doing All the Little Things: The Baseball Intangibles Thread on ILX - Jack Morris Pitching to the Score, David Eckstein Doing All the Little Things: The Baseball Intangibles Thread

another hat trick for devers. now 0-for-19 with 15 Ks. i'm told he has yet to hit the ball out of the infield

Yeah we know

Chris Davis' record is in jeopardy.

Imagine enjoying this

never forget

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DkiP5fZZlU

Hey Shasta I’m not sure why you’re gloating over this, feel free to post somewhere else though. Not sure why anyone would be enjoying Devers of all fucking players struggling, not when he shares a clubhouse with two cheats and a woman beater.

Really fucking fun.
https://i.imgur.com/yTMaUib.jpeg

i am no more gloating about this than i was when mentioning that the pirates keep getting walked-off

Didn’t say you were

ayo, Devers' struggles are not immune from critique. I wish him well, but if being paid $25M+/yr to roleplay as a fetid turd circling in the toilet for 5 days straight, it's fair game to get called out imho.

While I welcome your enthusiasm, this board has a long history of griping about shitty starts fwiw. Iirc it was one of the primary reasons I created this board some 21 years ago tyvm. You should have heard the choice words I had for BarryZeetz back in the day, you may have sprained a finger FP-ing me.

✌️

i wonder if there's reason for extra concern due to his fairly tepid 2024 second half (54 games, 5 HR, .244/.325/.402)...maybe there's some lingering issue.

So that’s definitely a theory. Not sure if you know this, don’t expect fans of other teams to know this but here’s basically the theory rn. To do this I have to give you the backstory.

2024 season - Devers injured his left shoulder on the last day of spring training swinging at an offspeed pitch on the Trajekt. I saw a whole Red Sox series in April last year and I never saw Devers once because they refused to IL him at the beginning of the season.

things I learned about in baseball this week/how i learned to stop worrying and love baseball

Anyway, after this stop start to the season he went off and started hitting - really hitting. Skipped the All Star Game cos he was banged up. All was fine until July, when he fell over making a play in Colorado and hurt his other shoulder.

After this, his production fell off a cliff. Despite repeated insistence that he was fine, he looked like a ghost of himself at the plate and continued to deteriorate. Remember that game where Cole walked him with bases empty? That was in either late August or September and he’d looked like a shell of himself for a while.

Anyway he got put on the IL the penultimate week of the season as the whole lineup died around him, and that was that.

A lot of the speculation about the move to DH is to keep him healthy because he usually finishes the season banged up and not producing. His last home run was in August.

After the season, there were questions about whether he’d get surgery but he didn’t. They just rested him. I don’t know how this works for MLB players, if he could refuse surgery if recommended or even if it was. He showed up at spring training in Fort Myers in January. Hadn’t swung a bat since they finally shut him down in September.

Spring training was sidelined by the whole 3B shitshow but while he was taking ground balls at 3B he wasn’t appearing in ST games, instead he was hitting live BP in the backfields. He only had something like 15 spring training plate appearances and sat out the Mexico trip to stay in Fort Myers getting ready.

The team and Devers both claim that he is healthy. One of the beat reporters say that his MRIs are clean. So the theory is it isn’t an injury, but that doesn’t mean playing through multiple injuries for so long last season didn’t fuck something up. If he was playing most of the season compensating for one shoulder, and then struggling to compensate with two, and then didn’t pick up a bat until spring training, it’s not hard to see where things can go wrong.

There’s also the mental factor but he looks different at the plate. Stance is far more open, his front foot isn’t steady. Who knows what’s going on there? And there’s also the mental factor, but he’s been fighting off pitches and working counts. But he hasn’t made contact for the most part, barely even any groundouts and no fly outs.

Tl;dr I couldn’t tell you, but it’s really difficult to watch and I think the way they handled him has been terrible. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there’s something lingering from last season or something else going on; this organisation is never honest about player injuries.

this is a really interesting situation and also a test of alex cora as a manager

devers seems completely lost but also he's making $30m in each of the next nine seasons, so . . . what do you do? give him a day off? move him down in the order? put him at third and move bregman elsewhere (which would be absurd)?

(i mean 20+ years ago people (understandably) shit on joe torre for his bullpen management -- i'm sure scott proctor's arm still keeps him up at night -- but he somehow made all those assholes play to their potential)

three games ago cora was saying “it’s just two games”. something has clearly been wrong. yesterday he looked like he was starting to catch up to the heater. so maybe he just figures it out. but quite arguably the red sox have dropped 2-3 games because raffy simply wasn’t ready. seems really dumb from multiple perspectives.

Devers' average bat speed:
2023, 73.4 mph (70th percentile)
2024, 72.5 mph (60th percentile)
2025, 70.3 mph (30th percentile)

crochet 6/170 by the way

Stats pointed out bat speed situation isn’t as dire as all that because that average bat speed number is being dragged down by some of the ABs where he was taking half-hearted cuts. Sample size still too small on that.

Jim Rice was talking about what he saw watching him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9BaCMoa2Y

I think Cora intends to make him play through it. It doesn’t help that basically everyone else started off ice cold bar like Abreu and Kristian Campbell.

And definitely think the fact he didn’t swing at all this offseason is a huge part of it. I don’t get what he was doing in January in Fort Myers if they aren’t helping him get ready - maybe rehabbing the shoulders, and those injuries were worse last year than we thought?

man i love jim rice.

i couldn’t help noticing refsnyder last night getting on top of a fastball a good 3 inches above the zone. he musta kept that back elbow down! it’s funny because most kids are taught to really hike up that back elbow.

xpost Do you remember Cora et al kind of made a big deal about Raffy’s off-season strength and conditioning regimen this year, saying that they basically told Raffy he wasn’t allowed to use his usual guy, and that the Red Sox were going to provide him with team support for that? i guess with the thinking that Raffy’s guy had not been doing a great job and the team guy would get him more in line with where he needed to be. So… how’d that work out??

makes sense about the bat speed.

It’s difficult to know because based on how he looks at the plate and in general it really looks as though he didn’t do anything which again makes me think his shoulders must have been incredibly fucked up.

This is the problem with guys playing through injuries.

from january:

The Red Sox have also made efforts to change up Devers’ offseason training program after he wore down in the second half last year and finished the season on the injured list with nagging soreness in both shoulders. The revised program included a week-long stay in Boston so Devers could work with head strength and conditioning coach Kiyoshi Momose and an early arrival at Fenway South.

“He was here a few weeks ago,” Cora said.” He was here for a week training with Kiyoshi and all that. That’s a big step, to get out of his comfort zone and come to Boston. I think the weather was great around that time, it was only like 25 degrees when he was here.

“He’ll be in Fort Myers early. He usually goes to Tampa and now, he’s not doing that. Next week, he’s gonna be in Fort Myers.”

For now, barring an addition of someone like Arenado, Devers is expected to once again man third base for the Red Sox (though they’re clearly open to a large-scale infield shakeup). Improving his defense has always been a priority and is once again one as spring approaches. New infield coach José Flores will travel to Fort Myers to get an early start with Devers soon.

After three-plus months off, Devers is healthy.

“The most important thing is that the shoulders are in a good spot,” Cora said. “Baseball stuff, he hasn’t done much. He hasn’t swung or thrown or whatever. Now, that’s the reason he’s going to Fort Myers. We’ve got plenty of time and he’ll be ready.”

I think it doesn’t help that Cora damaged his relationship with him too, I don’t think this is about him DHing, it’s very much more about his lack of buildup and the reason they need him to DH is to prevent things like the injury shitshow from last year right?

xp just a very bizarre situation all around. At the very least Breslow and Cora lied for months, including to Devers himself. Sean McAdam reported this a few weeks back:

Facing question after question one afternoon shortly after Alex Bregman was introduced with great fanfare, Devers provided one stoneface “No” after another when reporters asked about his stance on surrendering third.
He wasn’t playful. He wasn’t coy. He was angry, and he didn’t do much to hide it. It didn’t help that whenever Devers spoke with Red Sox management over the winter, he was assured that speculation about Bregman or Nolan Arenado was just that, and owed more to the media pushing unfounded rumors.

on top of all that it is just wild to me that they would let Raffy hit in the No.2 spot day after day when he is CLEARLY not ready. either cora et al know he's not ready and let him hit there anyway, or they actually do think he's ready... both options are like fuckin yikes.

I think Cora wants him to play out of it and not destroy his confidence further?

Feel like the fact this is the first time the team has expectations in a while is adding to this. The most beloved guy in the clubhouse is struggling, almost everyone is pressing, it’s a lot going on. Hopefully the off day today they can find some time to relax, hopefully Casas has his stash with him or something. I was looking at the David Ortiz slump referenced in Pedroia’s laser show rant and Pedroia straight up says…” It’s 60 ABs.” And he was right, Ortiz had a huge May and finished the season with an OPS+ of 137.

Mookieproof otm, Cora needs to earn his money here.

aww man how happy raffy looked after hit #1. a really nice moment.

He’s right!

it sounds like the sox are just terribly run from a human resources perspective. a good organization makes sure its people are informed and put in a position to succeed, and i don't really doubt that they told him 'you're our 3B' when they extended him.

that said he's also, however understandably, being petulant. as a supposed team leader, he should recognize that the team is better with bregman at third. and in three months he's gone from pouting about not playing the field to refusing to play the field. if it had been bregman who got hurt, would he have refused to return to 3B too?

also, however poorly they've handled him, the sox asking him to play 1B isn't part of an overarching plan to screw him -- they're only doing it because their starting 1B's knee exploded.

but mostly i worry that the fans will turn against him. had he agreed to play 1B, he'd instantly have been hailed as an all-time team-first hero and no one would have blamed him for struggling with the defensive transition. but i don't think fans are going to be too forgiving of a guy making $30m a year refusing to give his all.

also the contrast with mookie happily playing anywhere -- including moving *up* the defensive scale in his 30s -- is both stark and unfortunate.

Jeter, like kobe, was a corrupting influence on the entire league

also the contrast with mookie happily playing anywhere -- including moving *up* the defensive scale in his 30s -- is both stark and unfortunate.

The fun thing about Jeter is that the Yankees never even mentioned moving him when they were trying to sign Arod; they were signing Arod as a third baseman and he knew that and signed on those terms.

The other stuff with Devers is that Alex Cora all winter talked about how Bregman should play second, he always saw him as a Gold Glove second baseman, and if you recall Jeff Passan said when the signing was announced he’d be playing at 2B. Sean McAdam and Chris Cotillo, two of the better informed beat reporters, said that Devers saw the various rumours connecting the Sox to Bregman and Arenado and was like, is there anything I should know, only for Breslow to be like NOOOO IT’S JUST STUPID MEDIA RUMOURS DON’T LISTEN TO IT.

So you have a situation where because of the mishandling of this from the start the trust is gone. It’s also got to be probably infuriating to Devers that he wanted the FO to sign pitching and the second they spend on a big contract it’s his manager’s guy who plays the same position as him.

The money argument doesn’t really strike a chord with me; seems pretty clear that this was mishandled appallingly from the beginning.

Oh and the last thing is that Devers played injured pretty much all last year, when he picked up a second shoulder injury and played through it it killed his production and was a big part of the reason they missed the playoffs. During the winter they preferred that he not have surgery so he went home and rested, hence his awful start this season, he hadn’t hit regularly since last September. A big reason they wanted him to DH wasn’t even about his glove per se, it was about keeping him as healthy as possible. His second shoulder injury was sustained on an awkward play in the field and it seems pretty obvious that saying “listen hang up your glove but think of the numbers you’ll put up at DH when you’re fully healthy all year.” It seems likely it took him a while to adjust to DHing and now that he’s finally in a rhythm he doesn’t want to go back to adjusting, it’s also worth pointing out the team has been hovering around .500 and atm they need every single hit he can give them. Who knows.

Good take on Fangraphs btw:

The situation was ugly. Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe reported these comments in a February 17 story that made fun of Devers’ weight multiple times and was packed with implied criticism for infractions such as using a translator, flying home to the Dominican Republic for his daughter’s birthday the previous week — before Boston’s first full-squad workout — and doing his rehab work indoors rather than in view of reporters. “Rafael Devers is in the ‘no’ business,” wrote Steve Buckley of The Athletic, in an article titled “Rafael Devers has earned right to pout, but it’s good business to move him to DH.”

When asked about the promises Devers received, Cora said, “Different people here, right? There’s a different leader here. Chaim is in St. Louis right now.” One wonders whether Cora would have felt the same way were he the one being effectively demoted. As Buckley wrote, “A lot of people, not just Bloom, suggested Devers would be a long-term fixture at third base.” Cora was Boston’s manager at the time. He was one of those people. In fact, he made that same argument himself while fending off the position-switching rumors during the Winter Meetings. He told reporters, “When you sign a contract like that, he signed as a third baseman and he wants to be a third baseman, right?” The team made Devers a promise and the team broke it.

Finished part one, gyac--give me another day or two for part two.

One thing I know already: when Cora first talked to Devers, he began by saying "We're making moves..."

Houck Two-uh (IP) strikes again

Phantom/real IL stint coming as soon as Fitts or Buehler are back imo. Ngl I actually went to the injury updates page to see when that is:

RHP Walker Buehler
Injury: Right shoulder inflammation
IL date: May 2 (15-day IL, retroactive to April 29)
Expected return: May 19-21
Status: Buehler is throwing bullpen sessions on May 13 and 15 and is expected to return for the three-game series against the Mets in Boston from May 19-21. (Last updated: May 12) More >>

Oh wait, Kutter might be back before then. At least Hunter Dobbins turned out to be A Guy & Giolito started to look good.

RHP Kutter Crawford
Injury: Right patellar soreness
IL date: March 27 (15-day IL, retroactive to March 24)
Expected return: Mid-June at earliest
Status: The righty is throwing live batting practice sessions in Fort Myers, Fla., and hopes to go on a Minor League rehab assignment soon. (Last updated: May 12)

RHP Richard Fitts
Injury: Right mild pectoral strain
IL date: April 13 (15-day IL)
Expected return: June
Status: Fitts is throwing up-and-down bullpen sessions and should face hitters soon. (Last updated: May 12) More >>

Fitts most impressive of that group. Just insane how injury-prone this team is. Seems more than coincidence by now

The pitchers or in general? Besides the SP they’ve been quite healthy

well yes seemingly all the SP but also casas, romy, wong

Casas - freak accident
Romy - victim of a fellow guy who isn’t a 1B
Wong - hbp, broken finger

How is that anything other than coincidence? It’s not like they all had pulled hammies

Unless the league is sniping Cuban-American players…Casas, Romy, Manoah, Nestor, etc

I’m amazed Story is still healthy tbh

So is Marcelo Mayer

Raffy has been playing out of his mind. Such smart baserunning in the first inning tonight. If him and Bregman keep playing like this they’re All-Stars.

Incredible play. The Detroit audio for this was great.
WHY IS RAFAELA THERE AGAIN?! BENETTI, HE SHOULDN’T BE THERE!

As the ball is hit you see Rafaela streaking towards the wall and honestly his range and speed is spectacular.

https://www.mlb.com/news/red-sox-rob-homer-with-tipped-catch-between-two-outfielders

A game designed by a guy and his son, turned up on my FB wall:

https://i.postimg.cc/T31T0FGx/fenway.jpg

That is beautiful! Reminds me a little of Deadball

http://wmakers.net/deadball

Nice to know there's still stuff out there--played APBA, Strat-o-Matic, and something called Innings (loose-leaf in a binder; can't find an image) as a teenager.

(Dice-based games, I mean--obviously lots of digital games.)

This team is actually even less watchable than last year’s

Well this was a pleasant surprise to wake up to. I’ve gotten so used to them not scoring after they fifth inning that I just assumed this was over. As Flemming said in the bottom of the second - “this place needs a jolt”.

just learned that there is a yacht rock promo night this season

https://www.mlb.com/redsox/tickets/promotions/themes/yacht-rock

https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/t_16x9/t_w1024/v1746822620/mlb/qbojvkxomlordkxik9v4.jpg

Hopefully this Boston-based band is somehow involved:

https://www.neonlighthouseband.com/yachtrockboston

Is "Sweet Caroline" yacht rock?

I'm far from a scholar, but I'd say definitely not. Way too early, and also more of a...singer-songwriter version of Sunshine Pop?

Bringing up Roman Anthony is not going to fix this

I read a bizarre stat today that throughout most of this disastrous month of May, and up to now, Red Sox relievers are second in the AL with a 2.68 ERA?? I feel like Boston has blown half its games

You’d have to look at inherited runs scoring in that I think but the short outings from non-Crochet pitchers are killing the pen already. The pen is pretty good but it’s struggling for exactly that reason. There’s also a ton of errors contributing to unearned runs I’d imagine.

It’s not like the season hasn’t been a mess but they are just joyless, even when they were winning the vibes felt off? Stick a fork in this season. 2023 team were deeply flawed and much less talented but so much more fun to watch because it felt like they were having fun when they’re winning. It’s just very depressing right now. Hopefully Cora gets fired though.

When Devers and Bregman were raking the vibes were pretty good. It's funny how winning will do that

Nah I think the vibe has been off all season

When Devers and Bregman were raking the vibes were pretty good. It's funny how winning will do that

but even then they weren't winning all that much.

I’m so out on this team but they just called up Roman Anthony. I’m fucking DONE with having to watch Aroldis Chapman though, can’t fucking stand it.

From yesterday’s dugout interview with Giolito:

Jahmai Webster: “You mention that youthful energy. We just saw it after Marcelo hit his second big league home run. You gave him the double kisses. Is that part of what you guys are going to continue to do as the season goes along?”

Giolito: “Yeah. Celo and I developed a little bit of a bond when I was going through my rehab outing. So, you know, I give him a couple of kisses on the cheek for the home run. If he’s able to put up 20 this year - we’re already in June, so he’s got some work to do - but if he puts up 20 then I’ll have a nice gift for him at the end of the year.” Big shit-eating grin.

“That’ll be nice. I’m sure that motivates him to, uh, keep going.”

https://i.imgur.com/wdjMZIk.jpeg

Might motivate Roman Anthony in a different way though

Incredible insight into this shitshow. I follow this team pretty closely and the Anthony stuff was new to me.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/inside-the-absolute-s-show-that-led-to-the-boston-red-soxs-trade-of-rafael-devers-220018400.html

Meanwhile, Breslow has grown increasingly insulated.

“Thanks, Bres, you f***ing stiff,”

Lol wow

they’ve always courted this much drama but they used to try to win too

FSG loves shooting themselves in the foot and then recovering with aplomb.

With Liverpool they drove off Michael Edwards and Richard Hughes to give Klopp total control and it worked for a bit but also kind of didn't in part because they didn't invest enough - as soon as he retires they smartly give Edwards and Hughes the keys to the kingdom, hire a coach with less power and spend the first real offseason setting records for transfer spending.

They tried earlier to make the same kind of move bringing back Epstein and spending big on Devers but they've just continued shooting themselves in the foot.

_“Thanks, Bres, you f***ing stiff,” _


Lol wow

According to multiple sources, Devers was also upset when the rookie Campbell volunteered to play first base this season — interpreting it as a slight to his own stature.

All I can see when Devers is on the field is a huge plug of chaw with a baseball player attached to it. Does he just get fined every game, pay it and move on? He's going to be sad when he has to have his face amputated.

Passan dropped an essential read about this whole shitshow

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45539218/inside-breakup-rafael-devers-boston-red-sox-trade-san-francisco-giants-mlb

With Liverpool they drove off Michael Edwards and Richard Hughes to give Klopp total control and it worked for a bit but also kind of didn't in part because they didn't invest enough - as soon as he retires they smartly give Edwards and Hughes the keys to the kingdom, hire a coach with less power and spend the first real offseason setting records for transfer spending.

Was reading this thread as a Liverpool fan cos I know some of the FSG anger rises/subsides from one club to the other, but this isn't true really. firstly, Hughes joined Liverpool after Klopp left, but you may have confused him with Julian Ward. More than that I think the generally accepted story is that Edwards and later Ward were in a sort of power struggle with Klopp and left as a result. Maybe that means some blame for FSG but not really clear.

As for spending, you omitted the part where Liverpool spent a miniscule amount of money last summer, and because the three midfielders they signed the summer before (with no Hughes or Edwards) were such astute signings, they won the league.

Now, having done that, they are spending big to consolidate. I'm happy Michael Edwards is back and Richard Hughes seems to be doing a brilliant job, but FSG have done brilliantly for Liverpool, recently and in general. This is a club that were absolutely nowhere when they took over and having lost a totemic manager like Klopp goes and wins the league in the new coach's first season.

FSG has owned the pittsburgh penguins (that's an ice hockey team) for the last few years and i have no complaints. it's a salary cap league and the team is in a down cycle, but they seem fully willing to allocate appropriate resources