Are You with Me, Bryan Woo? (2025 ALCS: Toronto vs. Seattle)

Sorry, gyac, couldn't pass up the thread title.

Meant to close this tomorrow...I think these teams are, on balance, close to dead even, with one huge advantage to Seattle that I probably don't even need to articulate: they've got Mariano Rivera closing, we have Joey McLaughlin. I've picked the Jays to somehow win in 7.

Rivera didn’t look so reliable last night. Haven’t watched the Ms enough to know if it’s a fluke or if he’s been off lately.

Tigers have also seen Muñoz four times in the last week

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Sportsnet just showed Bichette running the bases today, visibly wincing. No way he plays in the ALCS, not unless both he and the team are willing to risk his career. Thinking back to the way he returned after a rain delay that day--how and why?

The roster is out and he's not on it. Bassitt and Scherzer are on, replacing Bruhl and Nance.

Mariners right-hander Bryan Woo was added to Seattle's 26-man ALCS roster on Sunday, but he will not be available for Game 1 in any capacity.

Infielder Ben Williamson and utility man Luke Raley were left off the roster in this series, and infielder/outfielder Miles Mastrobuoni was added.

(xpost) Exactly what I thought. If they win, can't see him back for the WS, either.

bummer about Bo, but surprised they went with both max and Bassitt. you'd think they'd only need to add one SP, but now they're at 5. and shame Nance was left off the roster, we was great during the season.

If Bassitt is indeed 100%, or very close, I think I'd give him a home start over Scherzer, especially if they win G1. At home this year: 8-0, 2.71, 1.172 WHIP, 3.70 K/BB.

One of them is clearly headed to the pen.

Those 15-inning games will mess you up.

https://i.postimg.cc/L6nCd2m3/moyer.jpg

Same two worries:

1) Hoffman. If he blows a save early on, this series could unravel quickly. I keep thinking about the pitch Judge hit for a double before Hoffman got Bellinger for the last out. I don't think you could throw a more nothing pitch--if that's the pitch he has to throw when he falls behind, look out.

2) sticking with Santander. I now understand why he plays the field: if Springer's out there, you can't (or wouldn't) pinch-hit for him to get some late-inning defense, whereas with Santander that's an easy call. And I know what they're hoping for--that even if he goes 2 for 20, maybe that'd be two HR, and maybe one of them will win a game. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate that's going to happen.

Should have challenged that out at home imo

I'd have to watch the replay, but I didn't think it was that close.

Was curious about Eugenio Suarez and 500 HR, so plugged him into the Favourite Toy calculator:

Based on his age, your player can be expected to play for 4 more years, at an average of 38.2 per year. At that rate, he will finish at 477 for his career. He has a 37 percent chance to reach 500.

Robles made that error with his alignment card hanging out of his mouth..

There’s a dude in the front row built like a frickin kangaroo

Raleigh just kills Gausman. Just keep him in the park.

Gausman got him there but I think Cal’s OPS just in Toronto is over 5000

1.126 for his career, but he really hits Gausman: 5/12, 3 HR.

I had no idea Springer had a .959 OPS this year, wow.

He was amazing...This is exactly the game the Jays didn't want. They're letting Seattle's stopgap starter with the near-6.00 ERA mow them down; first-pitch HR, nothing since.

What a bomb

No surprise at all. But it's the offense that's got me on edge right now, not Gausman.

If I could find that old post of mine about how Cal Raleigh has Hall of fame numbers on pitches in the bottom third of his strike zone I’d post it here

I don't know the right answer here. Pulling Gausman too soon in 2022 still hangs over the franchise, but this is a very different situation.

What the fuck was that? Oh yeah, nerves.

Even if by necessity, I applaud Seattle for keeping Miller in there; most teams wouldn't.

what a catch

Ouch on that catch--that's what we do.

Dominguez got away with that first pitch to Raleigh - 97 right down the middle.

I'm really skeptical that the Jays can rebound from losing tonight. That's all I heard all day--that, with the 15-inning game as context, they had to win tonight--and I tend to agree.

"You bring Hoffman in to keep it right where it's at"--great idea, Buck.

Well, at least that'll be something they can take away from tonight.

Short of a Hoffman blown save, that's about as sobering a loss as you could have. One hit after Springer's HR; none after the second inning.

Muñoz got all three outs on his slider.

The Jays' broadcast panel is focused on pulling Gausman too soon. I said I wasn't sure in the moment, and I'm still not. The offense lost the game. It is interesting, though, that the Mariners trusted their fourth or fifth starter more than the Jays trusted their number-one.

Trey Yesavage, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

I do sometimes wonder if Schneider has a genetic resistance to being criticized for leaving his starting pitcher in too long. You even saw it with Yesavage in his great game--didn't let him finish the inning.

They pulled Gausman too soon. With the the benefit of hindsight, the offense lost the game. However,

1) They pulled Gausman in a tie game in the sixth -- well before the offense "lost"
2) They burned through Fluharty, Varland, Hoffman ... all their best relievers. The Jays have to limit their usage, especially since this isn't a shutdown crew, the more the Mariners get to face them, the better they'll hit against them.

Like I say, the contrast with Seattle--sticking with their makeshift starter--was eye-opening.

What in the world is going on with Yesavage? I caught the tail end of some cryptic press conference.

i guess his family is getting the standard abuse/bullshit that athletes have grown to expect in this modern gambling-saturated sport environment.
dude went from a little-known prospect to making a name for himself in the bigs very fast and i guess the media splashing his family on TV and socials is making them a target for the worst shit heads out there.

Ok???

How do you throw it that far past someone who’s six seven with the wingspan to match

How is nobody watching this ffs

work :/

Was there last night and have it on rn.

Toronto vs Los Angeles

good vs evil in nuclear baseball war

at least one of these teams won't visit the white house

Congrats jaybros

Not gonna be nice next series tho, either way it goes. Hope you suffer! 🥰

Can't believe they actually did it. Sorry Mariners fans, you had a great team too.

If they hang on - that’s got to be the, maybe 4th biggest home run in jays history? (After alomar vs Eckersly)

It's ahead of Alomar. This was an elimination game.

Alonar's was "more difficult" (hit off a HOFer, got them back in the series) but Springer's was more important.

I was messaging Thermo and another friend tonight, but I stayed off here to spare everyone my hand-wringing and negativity. I was fully expecting to lose. Springer's HR is right up there in the Jays' pantheon, and for everything to come down to a Hoffman one-run save was unbelievable (and unbearable). Found myself tearing up along with Vladdy after the last out. JoeStork, I've been there--sorry. Thought I'd be there again tonight, with the likelihood I'd never see them come this close again.

Not gonna be nice next series tho, either way it goes. Hope you suffer! 🥰

so you *want* to see dave roberts lead the world champion baseball team present fealty to donald trump

i mean i know you're a dodgers fan but i would invite you to draw a line somewhere

post a controversial opinion

It’s cool. Sports fandom can transcend reason a lot of the time. People like the team they like - because their dad liked them or their friends growing up. My best friend died unexpectedly 4 years ago and we were both huge jays fans. We had season passes (the cheap kind) and went to every playoff game we could back in 2015/16. I took his son to a game back in august and he as telling him this season was similar to how it felt back in 2015. I miss him every day and this win m and so much to me because of that. It’s a game. A silly game. But it can mean so much at the same time

xp i hate it but that's fair

Typos because beer and hands shaking

(i'm pissed off at dave roberts, not you H.P.)

Gausman started to break down a bit just now talking to Hazel Mae.

Him Vlad, Yesavage’s dad

Lovely post Thinwall. (Silly) Suffering wishes redacted. I am sorry for you loss and glad you were able to share that moment with his son.

Therms <3

Nerviest move of the night had to be Bassitt. That curveball he threw to Suarez to end the inning was incredible.

I made it to three beers and my companion had them switch to the Seahawks after but we hung long enough to hear childhood parental affair storylines from the 30ish woman whose table corner we were squatting for glasses, and rundown a 14-year précis of electoral politics for a 50something lady who had moved to Seattle four hours earlier

movie trivia rescheduled for Sunday, I know next ⚾️ game is Friday but maybe another clash will hit

Nah the Mariners collapse reminds me very much of that painful 18 inning game where they couldn’t push across a single run at home and lost 1-0 to the Astros? You cannot strand a million men on base and ground into endless double plays in the playoffs.

Also shout out to the Jays crew on here, I love reading your posts about them and the Jays absolutely deserved to go through

Thought I'd be there again tonight, with the likelihood I'd never see them come this close again.

I was explaining to my eight-year old son that the Jays haven't been to the WS in 32 years. In a way, for me, 1993 feels like yesterday. But when you're a kid you don't have a time reference for anything that happened that long before you were born. Case in point, when I was eight years old, thirty-two years ago meant Dodgers vs Yankees, multiple times, in the 1950's. I would read about those World Series and they might as well have been battles from Greek antiquity. They were legendary stories from a generation of baseball that even my parents had no virtually no memory of. Well, that's what 1993 must feel like to my son.

So yes, I am going to savour this World Series, no matter what happens.

Shout out to this fella, he must be beside himself

Post by from…Peru? (gyac) from The inability to strike a deal is the latest blow for the 2025 Toronto Blue Jays on ILX - The inability to strike a deal is the latest blow for the 2025 Toronto Blue Jays

Thought the Jays and Mariners were about as evenly matched as could be. If I had to pinpoint a difference, I'd go with what a couple of people brought up here: the Jays' bottom third of the order vs. the Mariners'. The Jays got the two big HR from Gimenez (plus a couple of key bunts), many other hits, and the usual setting-the-table for Springer and Vlad; Seatlle got next to nothing (exacerbated by injuries, gyac pointed out).

Supposedly Bichette is ready to play. Obviously happy for him, and maybe he'll step in like it's July. Thinking about Gimenez's glove, there may be a cost--can't see that they'd DH him and send Springer out to play the field.

I'd argue that after JRod, Cal & Naylor, the Mariners bottom 6 offense was below replacement.

I mentioned it last night but when your season is on the line, your 3 outs away from ending your season and you're leaving in Leo Rivas as lead off instead of going to the bench, something is fundamentally wrong.

i was v surprised to learn that canzone batted .300 during he season

Yeah you just cannot have Leo Rivas getting meaningful ABs in a game 7, the bench was barren. Robles was actually pretty good before he crashed into a wall in SF and missed a ton of time this season, but then again he was batting ninth or whatever. Agree on how putrid the bottom of the order is. JP Crawford is a big disappointment, he was batting leadoff for the Mariners to start last season but his bat has not been good this postseason and he’s previously been a good solid hitter. He had a bounceback year of sorts with a .352 OBP (from .304 last year) & a 111 OPS+ which pretty much any team will take from a qualified bat in the 9 hole. Canzone I think I said was playing well this season but the Mariners have too many plug and play utility guys like that to be a serious team in the postseason. Maybe Canzone was still in mourning for the TP guy (one of several Mariners who posted on their Instagram status about it, way to read the room fellas!)

Or wherever JP was, maybe 7-8?

The problem as I ranted at length to a friend of mine this morning is that the Mariners really are up against it with the pitching. Castillo’s metrics have declined a third straight year and he’s …risky outside Seattle. Kirby I have covered my suspicion about his elbow. Gilbert looked not great. Woo is fantastic but misses time every season. Miller is enigmatic. Hancock…let’s not and say we did. Basically they have had the bounty of good young controllable starting pitching for years and those guys have been largely good, cheap and healthy the whole time. Nothing is guaranteed when your team is built on pitching so they needed more. The moves for Naylor and Suarez at the deadline were bold, but let’s be honest they have so many holes in the lineup and I don’t know what they’re going to do to fill them.

I mean - they almost made it! Naylor was every bit as frightening a figure at the plate as Raleigh. I feel like Canadian players get a weird adrenaline boost vs the jays.
In the end tho, the jays did what they’ve been doing all season (except for Hoffman who’s been lights out) - they came from behind in dramatic fashion in a way I haven’t seen them do in over 30 years.

Yeah Tyler O’Neill hit great in Canada last year too IIRC.

I've been looking at some of the post-mortems on last night, including the Seattle Times, and Wilson is getting the same kind of grief that Schneider gets re bringing in Barzado instead of Brash or Munoz. I tend to create this fantasy world where only the Jays deal with these issues.

Yeah that was an unbelievable choice especially with the bullpen he had available to him! Like, what are you saving it for, IT’S GAME 7

at the end of the day, the M's lacked a tommy edman

Jays had one for sure--Ernie Clement--and a couple of others (Nathan Lukes, Myles Straw, maybe even Gimenez) who were close.

Clement has been unreal. His WAR over the last two seasons is not something anyone would have expected and then playoff Ernie has been crazy. Not that I buy jerseys often, but my next might have to be Clement.

I mean - they almost made it!

yeah, kind of weird checking out some the talk online today and lots of people treating this Mariners defeat like it was inevitable when they lost game 7 by one run.

Had to laugh at the Bryan Woo interview where suddenly off camera Rodriguez lets out to most insane fucking rage scream

Mitch Garver: 7 ABs in the ALCS (one of THREE rostered catchers, holy redundancy):

.286/.333/.571 (remember he had that clutch triple!)

wtf are you rostering THREE catchers when the whole point of Raleigh is that he's a DH that can actually perform and excel at the most taxing position in the game...

only to leave them on the bench in favor of Leo (.403 OPS) Rivas, Dom (.245 OPS) Canzone etc. (the third catcher, Ford, actually hit a double in his lone at-bat!)

in the end: a complete comedy of errors for the Mariners, countless momentum-sucking bases-loaded/RISP double plays, were handed so many opportunities on a silver platter to walk away with the series only to squander it all.

I was looking at both ALCS rosters and wondering which position players would even make the Dodgers major league roster... :-(

Sneaking into the Jays clubhouse to post that last sentence on the wall.

Last post I'll make in this thread. Missed the first inning last night, so I didn't catch up with Naylor's interference call till today. I don't know the rule (I should)--I thought the baserunner was entitled to the base line. I do think that what Naylor did was a lot less egregious than Reggie in 1978, who totally got away with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvWKWvrVfrI

I mean totally different eras and mentality to the game now vs back then. I think it’s fair to say that while runners have the line, they don’t own the air space above. Launching yourself into the air AT the ball, is not really part of what his job is, which is running to second base.

I only watched it the one time, but wasn't Naylor turning away from the ball (or at least pretending to)? In any event, they didn't argue the call, so I guess it was a pretty clear violation.

He leaped up to block it. Only way it could have looked more intentional is if Naylor yelled "Jinx!" at Isiah Kiner-Falefa and wildely flapped his arms while sticking his tongue out and pulling a face

Which would have been really cool to see tbh and rock-the-baby Naylor is exactly thr player to do it

Ftr: would much rather the Dodger be playing the Mariner's. Jay's got that heat, that intensity, that fuck-da-stats-we-are-playing-on-pure-vibez-and-hatred energy. Despite the Dodgers sweep and all the odds pointing their way, the Jays have unquantifiable upset energy and could really do something here

According to this story about the play from MLB, the rule is 6.01 (a)(5), which reads:

Any batter or runner who has just been put out, or any runner who has just scored, hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate (see Rule 6.01(j));

There's nothing in the rule about running in the baseline or not, the rule is applied purely based on the act of interference. I couldn't find anything in the rulebook that specifically addresses interference on thrown balls, but I think that's what the phrase "any following play" is meant to imply.

6.01 (j) is the Chase Utley rule, involving breaking up double plays by sliding into a base, which didn't apply here.

There's a comment about 6.01 (a)(5) in the rulebook, that I think applies to the Reggie play:

If the batter or a runner continues to advance or returns or attempts to return to his last legally touched base after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the f ielders.

Reggie froze on the basepath, I think there was confusion about whether the ball was caught (see the reaction of the runner on second) and Reggie didn't know whether he was out by force or whether he needed to get back to first to avoid getting doubled up (not sure how many outs there were here). In any case, I think he gets the benefit of the doubt based on how the ball was fielded and the reaction of the other runner.

Thanks. I do remember that I was smiling from ear to ear when Reggie ever so slightly threw out his hip on that play--48 years later, rooting against the Dodgers again.

if not for being raised from birth to be a Dodger fan I'd be rooting against them with you Clemenza.

In '78 (that should be 47 years, not 48), I really did hate the Dodgers; I was a Reds fan, and then the Reggie-Thurman Yankees were much closer to what a high school kid would love. There are a lot of Dodgers I really like now: all their obvious HOF'ers (yes, even Kershaw still), Teo, Will Smith, Edman. As to their obscene payroll, the Jays had the highest payroll in baseball in '93, and I fully approved.