Shohei Ohtani Private Jet Spotted Heading to Toronto (No, Really): 2025 World Series, Toronto Blue Jays vs. Los Angeles Dodgers

Dodgers in four but voted Blue Jays in seven.

Dodgers in 7; I'll take some tension

Honestly, I'd be surprised if the Dodgers were to win in fewer than six games; I suspect the Jays will be playing as loose as a team can in the WS. I'll vote Jays in seven, the only vote that would really make sense for a Toronto fan.

I'm voting for the Blue Jays to sweep (A's vs Reds, never forget).

OK, they won't seeep but I'm voting for ir anyway.

I’m so fucking glad that made it to the thread title

GO JAYS

hoping for Dodgers in 5 so they can celebrate the win on their home field this time

to me this feels like a classic goliath/underdog 5 game series (jays win game 1 then lose 4) but very happy to be proven wrong

reading the playoffs threads has made wonder if jays fans are actual more negative/paranoid/sadist than mets fans. y’all are working through a lot of feelings in real time.

A lot of PTSD from the leafs. The non-hockey crossover fans tend to be much more optimistic

I was wondering if that was part of it

I'm trying to be optimistic so am going with Jays in 6, seems technically possible.

Even with the Jays' back-to-backs, they too have had some crushing defeats: '85, '87 (especially), and back-to-back ALCS losses in '15/16. I honestly believe that those first three teams there (not '16, which was the Cubs' year all the way) were the best teams in baseball that year. And lots of time spent in the wilderness, too.

The Leafs are a huge part of it, though, yes. Jeff Blair was making a big deal about Vladdy toying with karma by showing up to the stadium yesterday afternoon in an Auston Matthews jersey, causing Kevin Barker (from Virginia) to roll his eyes. "You just don't understand," Blair said. He was right.

rooting for Jays, but posting Vegas odds:

LAD in 5 (22%)
LAD in 6 (21%)
LAD in 7 (17%)
TOR in 7 (15%)
LAD in 4 (13%)
TOR in 6 (12%)
TOR in 5 (7%)
TOR in 4 (3%)

i will choose #freeippei

= 110%; Yogi Berra in charge of setting odds!

lol, looks like someone needs to revisit the moneyline probability formula, i believe i forgot to add +1 to the denominator in my eq.

Jays in 3

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

god bless you optimistic MFs

A lot of PTSD from the leafs. The non-hockey crossover fans tend to be much more optimistic

lol so true (and sad)

I'm not sure that a six or seven game series will be good for my sanity. I kind of want it to be over in four or five games, for either team.

TIRED: letting your opponent know your G1 SP
WIRED: openers -> bullpen game
INSPIRED: just ~vibing~ your way into the WS

https://i.imgur.com/jQ4Iw1G.png

Speaking of MFs and disappointing hockey teams, I have no recollection of Miroslav Frycer having played for the Wings, as discovered while down an '80s Leafs rabbit hole.

3-0,.086 ERA,28 SO sheesh!

perhaps if we withhold information about our starter we will confuse them and lead them to putting freeman and ohtani lower in the lineup... or perhaps SITTING THEM!

ah yes - the classic Sun Tzu misdirect.

Made sure to get a copy of this Tuesday: great photo, clever headline (which I don't think you even need to be a Jays fan to get).

https://i.postimg.cc/ydxKnW8k/dinger.jpg

Yesavage to start for the Jays.
just wild. started the season in single-A. threw a total of 98 innings between A, A+, AA & AAA before making the bigs. just three regular season starts followed by three playoff starts. and is now the blue jays world series game one starter.

I could have seen him pitch with the Vancouver Canadians in May, now he's starting game 1 of the World Series

wow, lol, wow

why do the Blue Jays have home field advantage in this WS?

No it's not because of any "This time it counts" All Star game shenanigans, it's because TOR's regular season record (94-68) was one game better than LAD's (93-69).

Flashback to 8/10/25, when Toronto was on the verge of being swept in Chavez Ravine.

The Blue Jays had a 5-4 one run lead when they called on Mason Fluharty to close out the game...
with the bases loaded...
with only one out...
and Shohei Ohtani at bat, and Mookie Betts on-deck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PJg_Cz_-dA

Yesavage will be the second-youngest G1 starter ever. As omens go, not sure how favourable it is that the youngest was Ralph Branca in '47.

Bobby Valentine's ex-FIL

Special WS grid today:

https://www.immaculategrid.com/

Alex Vesia left the team last night, his wife is expecting a baby any day now but the news seems not good.

ya, sounds bad. hope it's just a scare or something manageable or even just media/people blowing something out of proportion. losing a pregnancy - especially this late in - is not something i'd wish on my worst enemy.

actually - just saw the official statement. sounds very bad indeed.

Bo has been activated (Ty France too); Loperfido and Rodriguez have been dropped.

1. RF George Springer
2. LF Davis Schneider
3. 1B Vladimir Guerrero Jr
4. DH Bo Bichette
5. C Alejandro Kirk
6. 3B Ernie Clement
7. CF Daulton Varsho
8. 2B Isiah Kiner-Falefa
9. SS Andres Gimenez
SP Trey Yesavage

Between losing Gimenez's glove and putting Springer in the field, I'm happy they've gone this way. I just hope Springer's up to it--I thought he'd be in left, and assume he will be when it's Lukes instead of Schneider.

excited for Schnider getting a start.

The lineup I'm seeing has Springer at DH and Bo at 2B.

oh ya. Straw in, IKF out

Don't where I cut and paste that from, but you're right. On the radio, heard something that asked "When's the last time a guy started a WS game at a position he hasn't played in seven years?"

https://i.imgur.com/rJRbCQT.png

^^^2025 Postseason leaders^^^

I think you can drop the plural there.

Cito throwing out the first pitch tonight, touch-'em-all Joe tomorrow. Hope they nab Vlad Sr. if they make it back to Toronto.

Xp you're forgetting about teoscar hernandez

But yeah dodgers defense was not bad and obviously there were some clutch plays. Just most of those plays (pick offs, caught at the plate, caught out running back to 2nd) i attribute more to jays baserunning than dodgers defence. Maybe unfairly. Jays, particularly Vladdy and Varsho had some spectacular plays throughout the seried though which didn't have anything to do with sloppy dodgers baserunning

i feel like IKF's no-lead at third was a direct result of barger getting doubled up to end game 6. kinda crazy

The lack of a lead by IKF was not a great thing to see when I woke up today. I guess with the 3b being so close to the bag, he didn’t want to risk get doubled up? Still scratching my head about the springer throw out with Vlad at the plate. Lousy base running killer them in 2024, and they had completely turned that around this year only to relapse in the World Series.

Xpost there. Good to see I wasn’t the only one thinking that

There were probably weird 20 plays in this series that I've never seen the likes of before and might never again. Just off the top of my head: the Springer and Bichette CS/pickoffs, Barger's hit getting stuck in the fence, Smith just *barely* lifting his foot off home plate and re-touching the plate to beat IKF with the series-winning run by about one inch, the double plays to end Game 6 AND Game 7 ... we also saw improbable individual performances: a pinch-hit grand slam, a game tying HR in G7 by a guy who hadn't had a hit in a month, Yamamoto's dominance, Shohei reaching base nine times in a game, Clement becoming a hit machine, Yesavage setting records, Klein getting the win in the 18-inning game. It was a well-played series *and* one of the greatest series ever. Those aren't always the same -- the 2001 and 2011 WS were exciting, but in no small part due to a managerial comedy of errors. And in the case of the 2011 WS, with all due respect, neither team was really all that great.

So in time, I hope I'll appreciate that the Jays participated in this nearly indescribable run of great baseball culminating in a WS that couldn't possibly have been any closer. Maybe they'll be like the 2014 Royals and come back next year on a revenge tour that'll take them back to the WS. But considering how hard it is to make the playoffs now and to advance compared to even ten years ago, I wouldn't bet on it.

i have to write this before i forget.. watching G7 with my kids the camera cuts to Varsho staring balefully out from the dugout and my youngest goes "he'd be easy to draw"

Muncy wasn’t that near to the bag
https://i.postimg.cc/rsC342rW/3c86de49-8c96-4c71-8d41-dd5ad7c8997d.jpg

jesus

Found it! What a baby https://t.co/ka5S7xVDpE pic.twitter.com/tYTyr9hvtm

— Jeromy Krom (@Jkrom34) November 2, 2025

ah whoops sorry for the x share

it’s a video of giménez pulling exactly the same hand-flail in an attempt to get HBP against seattle when he was with cleveland

Right up there with the Bart Giamatti quote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww3K4Ry19xA

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6770725/2025/11/02/isiah-kiner-falefa-blue-jays-game-7-world-series/?source=user_shared_article

Athletic says IKF is getting hate over bad baserunning instruction. Sucks.

that sucks but it wasn't just the instrux he also hesitated for a second and slid instead of ran through the base (though you could argue febles should have reminded him not to slide; it would be nice if he took some of these questions)

if indeed it's because of what happened to Barger in G6 then that play won them two games

You couldn’t have scripted a more painful loss--worse than ‘85, ‘87, or ‘15.

More positive thoughts from me ... I disagree with you here. Losing this year was horrible, but I am more proud of this team and the way they played than even the WS winning teams in '92 and '93. Maybe that's recency bias, but whatever. 2015 was bad but they delivered all-time great game and moment vs Texas, and nearly forced G7 in the ALCS, again, plenty to be proud of. In 1985 they were as good as anybody and had everything going their way vs KC until George Brett went into beast mode and they had basically ran out of steam by G7.

The 1987 Jays were probably the best Jays team ever but pulled off an all-team horrible final week collapse and didn't even make the playoffs. No joy and no redeeming qualities whatsoever. So 1987 is the "winner", now, and forever more.

People sharing that great Giamatti quote but the whole essay concludes like this. Very much what I imagine being a Jays fan feels like right now.

Rice the Hammer of God sent to scourge the Yankees, the sound was overwhelming, fathers pounded their sons on the back, cars pulled off the road, households froze, New England exulted in its blessedness, and roared its thanks for all good things, for Rice and for a summer stretching halfway through October. Briles threw, Rice swung, and it was over. One pitch, a fly to center, and it stopped. Summer died in New England and like rain sliding off a roof, the crowd slipped out of Fenway, quickly, with only a steady murmur of concern for the drive ahead remaining of the roar. Mutability had turned the seasons and translated hope to memory once again. And, once again, she had used baseball, our best invention to stay change, to bring change on.

That is why it breaks my heart, that game--not because in New York they could win because Boston lost; in that, there is a rough justice, and a reminder to the Yankees of how slight and fragile are the circumstances that exalt one group of human beings over another. It breaks my heart because it was meant to, because it was meant to foster in me again the illusion that there was something abiding, some pattern and some impulse that could come together to make a reality that would resist the corrosion; and because, after it had fostered again that most hungered-for illusion, the game was meant to stop, and betray precisely what it promised.

Of course, there are those who learn after the first few times. They grow out of sports. And there are others who were born with the wisdom to know that nothing lasts. These are the truly tough among us, the ones who can live without illusion, or without even the hope of illusion. I am not that grown-up or up-to-date. I am a simpler creature, tied to more primitive patterns and cycles. I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun.

An exercise in masochism, I know, but I do disagree, NoTime. I sincerely hope my head is where yours is in a few days, but right now, not even close.

I'll flip my argument for Bautista/Springer over Carter on their head here; for me, it's all about proximity to winning everything, how agonizingly close we were. Those other teams still had a ways to go--one of them didn't even make the playoffs, the other two fell short of the WS. They hurt, and I think every one of them was better than the WS winner that year, but there was a ways to go each time.

We were two outs away this year--ideally, two pitches, even. Offensively, we were a freakish catch away from walking it off. We were a normal lead-off away from walking it off. (Admittedly, I wasn't aware of that till the next day.) We were a routine fly ball away from walking it off. There was, as you point out, more than enough good memories to counteract all that, and almost certainly the most lovable Jays team ever. Right now, the crushing disappointment overwhelms that for me.

No one will agree, but I'd even say that, as objectively as possible (i.e., for anyone without a rooting interest), this was worse than the '85 Cardinals, '86 Mets, or 2011 Rangers. Denkinger, Buckner, and Freese aside, those teams all had a chance to come back for a G7. None of them won, so the G6 traumas are what everyone remembers. But sometimes teams do come back, like the '75 Reds. It wasn't a G6 we lost--it was G7.

(For what it's worth, I think you mischaracterize 1985. Brett's epic game was G3, after which the Jays went up 3-1 and Brett was 1-11 the rest of the way, 0-5 in G7.)

(That should read '86 Red Sox, obviously.)

yeah I definitely think this was worse than the 2011 Rangers for multiple reasons - that it happened in front of the home crowd (who'd already been subjected to a brutal Game 6!) and the fact that they were pretty big underdogs going against a team with like 3x the payroll of the average MLB team...you can only imagine how sweet it would've been. might actually be the most brutal championship loss I've seen in any sport.

The other thing I meant to add that mitigates '85 and '87 for me was, as I posted earlier, the certainty we'd be back. With the Killer B's in the outfield and Tony Fernandez, we had the best core of young talent in the game, plus Henke was now in place as one of the best closers in baseball. I can't remember what the long-term feeling was about the 2015 Jays (felt like a go-for-broke year? we did have Bautista/Edwin/Donaldson coming back). This year, I don't see much of anything. Many people will be leaving, Bo most of all, the Yankees and Red Sox will spend zillions and go back to doing what they do, and the Rays will do what they do and right the ship. I don't think we'll be back for many years.

There's a video of Clement talking about how much the teammates love each other that just slayed me

Yeah, I meant to post that--that one and a Bassitt clip where both have clearly been crying and are still having trouble collecting themselves.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a slam dunk that Bo will leave, just like I didn’t see Vlad leaving cos he is so much more valuable to the Jays than any other team. Rogers didn’t refurb that stadium at vast expense just to have a team nobody cares about, yk?

Also, the Bill Buckner blaming has always been obscene given there was a game 7… same with that guy who caught the ball in Chicago!

I'd be overjoyed if Bo stays--and maybe the postseason might be a factor (although, as we full well know, with 90% of players it's factor till another team offers them one dollar more)--but I'd be very surprised. They were wondering on the radio this morning if moving him to second might be an incentive for him...but maybe that'd be a disincentive, I don't know. Anyway, here's hoping. If he stays, I'd obviously feel more optimistic about the future.

after that offseason – they have no justification for not signing Bo. hopefully they make a serious run at Bieber too.

Rogers certainly have the money, probably made a fortune in the postseason too you’d think?

Keith Law ranked Bo second on his list of free agents and said:

Before this postseason, Bichette had never played an inning in the majors anywhere other than shortstop, but it’s time for him to make that move to second base permanently. He hasn’t had a positive Runs Above Average measurement for his defense except for the shortened 2020 season, and was at minus-10 this past year, which means his defense cost the Jays a full win of value. His bat will still make him a star at the keystone, and he might be an above-average defender there.

Bichette’s unusual swing and fringy bat speed haven’t stopped him from posting above-average contact rates, including a career-best 14.5 percent strikeout rate in 2025, and hard-hit rates always above the median with a peak of 50.3 percent in 2022. Put him at second base and even if he’s an average defender he’ll be a 4.5-5 win player for many years. He should get more than Willy Adames did last winter.

Rogers always has the money, and yes, they made a fortune; it's just a case of how much they're willing to part with, and if they're willing to carry two mega-contracts. Not "can they"--they can--but will they? Hopefully the truism hit home once again how truly baseball-crazy the city/country is when things go well.

And I hope that Bo hasn't already mentally left--there was a time during the season when I think that was true--and if he had, enough money can get him to mentally find his way home.

main concern is if he wants vlad money to be a good-but-inconsistent bat and not-so-great fielder

Rogers _always_ has the money, and yes, they made a fortune; it's just a case of how much they're willing to part with, and if they're willing to carry two mega-contracts. Not "can they"--they can--but will they? Hopefully the truism hit home once again how truly baseball-crazy the city/country is when things go well.

Bo is only 27 and has been a franchise guy forever. If they were in the running for Soto, and if they were trying to get Ohtani, then both Bo and Vlad shouldn’t be a problem. If anything the Jays showing they can compete and sign franchise players to long term contracts suggests that Rogers should spend more, not less.

(xpost) And if he'd be willing to play second, where I actually think he could do well (was very good in the Series).

Trying to pretend I'm busy while trying to keep this highly annoying grade 7/8 class quiet...Idle weirdness: Ernie Clement had a negative WPA on BRef for the Series and for the postseason. I know that's all tied in with leverage, but still a head-scratcher.

xpost to gyac - Rogers doesn't always operate on the same logic one would expect. there's a reason they are one of the most loathed companies in canada

Yes--and I think they usually have a hard ceiling when it comes to negotiations (they seemed to get backed into such a corner with Vlad that they loosened that some). I hope to be proven wrong, but I think Shapiro and Atkins are born tinkerers, who are happy to work around the edges.

I.e., they're happy to work within the parameters set by Rogers.

clem -- continuing where we left off ...

First off, you're right about Brett in '85, his numbers for the series were great, and he won G3 almost by himself, but the Jays still came back to take G4. Brett still won ALCS MVP though.

We were two outs away this year--ideally, two pitches, even. Offensively, we were a freakish catch away from walking it off. We were a normal lead-off away from walking it off. (Admittedly, I wasn't aware of that till the next day.) We were a routine fly ball away from walking it off. There was, as you point out, more than enough good memories to counteract all that, and almost certainly the most lovable Jays team ever.

Can't argue with any of that. The 2011 Rangers were one strike away from winning, twice. But they still could have won in G7. The 2025 Jays had more even chances, but couldn't execute.

In today's game there's a bigger emphasis on playoff performance than in year's past. For the '85 Jays, winning the division was a huge deal. Today, even with the new seedings, division titles don't really matter. It's not what people remember. It's more important to deliver in the playoffs, and to create great playoff moments.

For instance, what do people remember about the 2010's Dodgers teams? They won the division every year from 2013-2019. But I'd argue that people remember them more for choking in the playoffs every year against inferior teams. Look at this thread -- we're still making Clayton Kershaw crash 'n' burn jokes.

OTOH, take the 2016 WS, which also went seven games (and extra innings in G7) and featured two teams with strong historical narratives behind them. One could argue that Cleveland blew the Series, but I think it's remembered as an epic matchup between two deserving teams that culminated in an all-time great G7.

I'm not saying that putting on a "good playoff performance" is more important than winning. Winning is obviously more important. But teams can cement themselves, historically, without winning the WS. With so many more playoff series than ever before, that's just simple math -- there are more important games being played every year than ever before.

The 2015 Jays were great, and if they had won the WS then we'd think better of them. But we don't think less of them because they didn't win, they're defined by the accomplishments that they did manage to achieve. What do people remember about the '87 Jays? Everyone remembers the seven game losing streak to close the season. Nobody says "hey, they won 96 games, that's still a pretty good season". The 2025 Jays are firmly in the former category.

i still don't shut up about that '87 outfield. i have a Barfield jersey!

We'll have to call an impasse, NoTime; sincerely hope I'm where you are in two weeks, but for me, it's still misery and leadoffs-not-taken and Trevor Fucking Hoffman, grandson of Bucky Fucking Dent. (Speaking of whom, there's almost a direct line from the ball Lou Pinella couldn't see in the '78 playoff game--which he somehow caught or knocked down anyway, can't remember which--and the one Kike Hernandez couldn't see and managed to turn into a DP anyway.)

Also, re Toronto's future: whether or not they sign Bo, they absolutely have to hand the closer job to someone else. (If they hadn't tried to get by on the cheap at the deadline this year--ah, we'll just stick with our guy and hope for the best--I do believe they would have won.)

well, robert suarez opted out. good luck!

When I look at Suarez vs. Hoffman, my first reaction is "How much of an upgrade would that be?" Suarez saved 40/45, an 89% save pct.; Hoffman converted 33/40 for 83%...if he'd had the same 45 opportunities, that would have been 37 saves. Three games is a lot, admittedly (although blowing a save doesn't automatically mean the game was lost).

Yet there's a huge difference in their ERAs: 2.97 for Suarez, 4.37 for Hoffman. Maybe that means Hoffman turns a lot of three-run leads into one-run wins, or maybe it means something else. One thing I've been wondering about lately is variance in blown saves: maybe when Suarez blows a save, that usually means giving up the tying run and no more (meaning his team still had a pretty good chance to win), whereas when Hoffman blows a save, he really blows a save--multiple runs and little chance to come back.

Here's what happened in their blown saves (which includes BS that turned into a win or a loss for the pitcher--BRef designates them as "BL" or "BW"--and using only earned runs):

Suarez: 0.1 IP/5 ER, 1.0/0, 0.1/2, 1.0/1, 1.0/1; overall, 3.2 IP/9 ER = 22.09 ERA

Hoffman: 0.1 IP/3 ER, 0.1/5, 1.0/2, 0.1/1, 0.2/0, 1.0/1, 0.2/4: overall, 4.1 IP/16 ER = 32.23 ERA

So there is some truth in that: a Hoffman blown save is usually worse than a Suarez blown save. Three of Suarez’s five BS weren’t that bad; you could only say the same of two of Hoffman’s seven BS.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/vladimir-guerrero-jr-and-the-greatest-postseasons-of-all-time/

by at least wRC, Vlad had the best postseason of all-time. doesn't account for park or position though

I'm in Toronto today, so caught some of the FAN. I was shaking my head as they went through all the reasons they believe Bo will stay. Didn't disagree with any of them--of course it makes sense for him to stay, and of course it makes sense for the Jays to keep him here. But it's like they'd never gone through this before: logic, loyalty, friendships, park factors, position, it all goes out the window (or at least it does with the great majority of players). If the Blue Jays offer him more money than anyone else is willing to, he'll stay. If they don't, he won't.

Maybe we should take this discussion to the Hot Stove thread ... IMO, Bo is as good as gone. He's a valuable player but I think he wants Devers/Bogaerts money and starting pitching is a more pressing need. If Santander and Giminez bounce back, and we get a full season from Barger (including some expected improvement), Bo's offense can be replaced rather easily within the current roster. There aren't any premium starting pitchers on the market, which means someone is going to overpay for a Dylan Cease or Ranger Suarez, and that someone probably should be us.

ya lets go to the hot stove, or jays thread for this

Done. This is more WS relevant...I was in Missassauga today for a cousin-in-law's memorial service (the only kind of thing that gets me inside a church). The priest led with a joke--"My two religions are Tim Hortons and god"--then mentioned being a Leafs fan. "And Blue Jays...(makes a hand gesture of sorts) I'm grieving." As I went to say goodbye to the cousin-in-law's son, he was up talking to the priest, and yes, they were talking about the WS.

This piece in The Ringer describes my feelings perfectly.

https://www.theringer.com/2025/11/02/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-2025-world-series-game-7-almost