The Afterglow Has Co$t Us Dearly, Toronto Blue Jays 2026... yadda yadda

new thread to discuss Hoffman wins, Gimenez RBIs and bush party installations

Another thought on the ASB system: Cavan Biggio, your moment has arrived.

where's he at now?

Gausman: K's for everyone, setting records!

Cease: hold my beer

Dylan Cease is something else today: 11 strikeouts through 5, working on seven straight.

Fluharty getting hit with two line drives in a row - yikes

To what extent does your life revolve around Alejandro Kirk!

(I’m watching A’s-Jays and that Kirk nuke in the 9th was incredible)

My dad--I mean ME--turned the game off and missed all that...I'm back, though!

I didn't deserve that.

I also tuned out after the Langeliers GS ... came back for the 10th!

Think Clement got a missed call on that checked swing.

Ya he def went around imho. Anyways… what a game! Cease, Kirk, other new guy, Ernie!

bump

Looking for another walk-off win here.

i will take a scoreless save from Hoffman. Lauer looked amazing and loved seeing Sanchez and Okamoto get their first homers for us too.

they set a record for most (pitching) Ks in an opening series too (49 by my count)

My needs-context joke worked...Jays pitchers struck out 50 (!) in their first three games, a franchise record (one extra-inning game in there). I've got to wonder if that isn't an MLB record--to open the season, obviously, but over any three-game stretch?

Sorry, was typing...I got 50, I don't know.

First 3-0 start since 1996!

Not to worry, but a 77-85 team...Looking back at them, I was surprised to find out that Hentgen's Cy Young year (I remembered that, of course) was close to 9.0 WAR on B-Ref.

Looking at old Jays teams on B-R, I noticed that after the win today, the Jays are exactly at .500 all-time following the win today (3857-3857).

Looking at that '96 Cy, pretty sure there are still Yankee fans convinced that Pettitte should have won. I recall that it was considered a toss-up at the time because of W-L records: yeah, maybe Hentgen pitched a little better, but 21-8 vs. 20-10, award should go to Pettitte.

Hentgen pitched a lot better. (I was arguing for him at the time--no WAR then, just looking at all the old-school stuff--and trying to tell people it wasn't just because he was a Jay.) Forty more innings, 10 CG vs. 2, more than half-a-run edge in ERA, better WHIP. Pettitte had a better K/BB rate.

Hentgen won 110-104 (16 firsts to 11, though).

Re strikeout record for any three-game stretch: the Astros struck out 52 in 2016:

https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-mlb-record-52-strikeouts-in-3-game-set-c180433878

But 50 is an opening-the-season record, yes.

Bo is off to a brutal start (1-14)...he's always been streaky; Jays fans a little more patient than in NY, I'm sure, but not all that patient.

Saw him getting boo’d. Not exactly the best start

Whatever just happened to Cody Ponce there, did not look good at all

Not home, but just read that:

https://www.mlb.com/news/cody-ponce-injured-in-blue-jays-debut

Yuck. Why you load up on seven or eight starters.

Yeah, I'm expecting the worst here.

Five runs in two innings for Heineman. Still a better ERA than his twelve runs in 3.1 innings last year.

As expected, not great: "Blue Jays are 'holding onto' hope of a return this season."

https://www.mlb.com/news/cody-ponce-acl-sprain

Hope springs eternal: six very strong innings from Max tonight, his 298th career QS. It's a stat that's barely ever mentioned anymore, but I got curious:

https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/who-has-the-most-quality-starts

Assuming Verlander falls short of 300 wins, I think 300 QS will be more or less as unlikely as 300 wins. So two more, and maybe Max will be the last.

I was kind of hoping the Gatorade dump would be on Max tonight, but I guess that's something that just doesn't happen.

Hardly ever happens to a SP. who got it (my computer died)?

Jesus (many jokes in the offing here).

i would be very afraid of pouring gatorade on max scherzer

I know--that's exactly what I was hoping for...Had this vision of Vlad doing his thing, then making a mad dash for the clubhouse.

How's that for a nightmarish loss? Up 3-2 in the 10th, two outs from a win. Next guy strikes out, but Kirk is injured from a foul tip during the AB. So two out, runner on third, Heineman in the game. Next guy drops down a surprise bunt, Heineman throws it away. (Would Kirk have made the out? Have to look at it again--maybe he would have at least held on to the ball.) 3-3 now, next guy doubles him home.

Looking at the replay, Kirk would have had the good sense to hold on to the ball.

On top of which, as the post-game commentators just pointed out, the idea that you're going to come off the bench and instantaneously pull off this incredibly difficult throw is wishful thinking. I realize it was a great bunt and a bang-bang play, but Heineman's supposed to think of the possibilities ahead of time. Guy bunts, no play, hang on to the ball.

It wasn't that hard of a play, Heineman should have thrown him out to end the game, he just blew it.

Three out of four games dropped to two of the worst teams in MLB, Ponce injured, Kirk may be injured, the vibes are bad after that 3-0 start.

Looked at it again...I think it's a more difficult play than that because he picks up the ball facing the other way and had to wheel around. I don't know--it he'd made it, I would have been impressed, especially having just gotten into the game.

He should have held into it imho- play was going to be close and looked like it *could* roll foul. Runner wasn’t going to score on the play - they would have just had to get the next guy out.

Kirk out for probably close to two months. Ugh

Heinemen's adequate, but what do they do? I guess they're long past the point of giving Varsho some games there...Anyone at Triple A? Trade for a stopgap?

For a second, I forget about Tyler Heineman's controlled demolition thing.

He had a pretty bad day today

I've been watching baseball long enough, that I'm sure I've seen many errors uglier than his rundown-toss to third today. Nothing immediately comes to mind, though.

They traded for Brandon Valenzuela in the offseason, who looks like he could maybe be a slightly better option than Tyler?

He sure did look demoralized in the dugout.

Apparently he was inconsolable after the game.

The enigma of Jeff Hoffman. He looked like Wardo out there tonight.

Varland, meanwhile, 22/22, 1.02--if the season ended today, I think he'd earn a spot on your closer poll.

The best offense is baseball gives Shane Bieber a friendly welcome to Nationals Park!

Bring in the gimp!

Six walks allowed in an inning -- ffs.

Seeing the Varland exchange the lineup cards before the game was nice. Little things like that help make the season worth watching at this point.

Just saw the clip; yeah, small pleasures from here on out--nice moment.

Interesting trivia:

Both Maxes* Muncy have hit homeruns at Rogers Centre since VladJr has.

*Including the Max Muncy who only has 5 HRs this season.

One of the TSN people tonight suggested that the team give him the rest of the year off after the deadline--not jokingly, and not punatively, but to give him time to get straight. Utterly bizarre idea.

(Assuming he's healthy, that is.)

Obviously a terrible idea in terms of fan engagement – but anything’s worth a try. He missed a HR last night by maybe two feet and it’s crazy how much the crowd is behind him. Then next ab he pounded into an easy double play

Whatever I posted about him as a pitcher, Gausman does seem like one of the game's good guys. Nice (final?) start today, huge ovation as he left mid-inning.

Back to 3.5 within a WC...I don't know if that gums up the works or not. Remove emotion, and they surely must know this team would never be the kind of WC team that makes a deep run--pitching is good, not great, offense is usually anemic. On the other hand, I suppose even a couple of post-season series means much income. I'm pretending to analyze this situation like I know the first thing about the economics of baseball.

Case in point: I believe the term is "revenue," not "income."

Rogers is no different from Guggenheim they can do whatever they want

Hoping they acquire a couple of Jackson Pollocks then, instead of a rent-a-player.

they probably own such things in a vault in zurich

I don’t think there’s anyway they can hope to make the playoffs. Not so much the games they are away from making it, as there are 6 teams between them and the last WC spot. And the two directly ahead of them are started selling assets.

Aaaaaand they have just gotten James Taillon, which I’m surprised even the announcers seem to think it’s to facilitate trading one of their SP

Chicken-and-the-egg thing, but it looks insurmountable because this is not a team that's going to suddenly win seven or eight in a row; if they could, they'd come out tied for a WC spot.

But they can't.

What I mean is, if you're trying to catch up the only way the Jays can--which is to chip away over a number of weeks--I agree, too many teams ahead of them. But if they had the capacity for a dramatic winning streak (or, dream on, do what Boston just did), I think the number of teams in their path would be immaterial.

Not a save situation, so still 24/24 (I think), but Varland did blow the game today.

Gausman gone to Cubs for two prospects. Can’t say I know anything about them. Looks like low-power OBP guys

Wish him the best--another team I can root for in the post-season.

consensus out of the gate seems to be the Cubs got him for free

Looked them up:

Brett Bateman, 24, OF (all levels): .301/.403/.361
Ty Southisene, 21, SS/2B (all levels): .275/.407/.322

Not too many HR hiding there.

ya. i love a guy that can get on base, but even i have my limits

The organization apparently thinks that they're really good at developing these kinds of hitters.

and now they are buyers. Jose Soranao for Arjun Nimmala and two other toss-ins O_o

He’s actually a great get. Era+ of 124 this year (Gausman was 100+)

Yeah--don't know the players they gave up, but you have to like a 27-year-old starter with a good ERA and what looks to be his second year in a row with 150+ innings.

I will miss Jose!!!

I'm a rumour pipeline guy now...Jays supposedly (Jeff Passan) about to send Varsho to the Astros for Spencer Arrighetti.

(Things you were shockingly old when you learned: Spencer Arrighetti is a pitcher for the Houston Astros.)

Kevin Barker actually made me laugh. He was talking about some film out there of Arrighetti being informed of the trade and then walking across the field (the Jays are playing the Astros tonight). "That happened to me once...nobody paid attention."

Holy cow: "Sources told MLB.com that Minnesota is acquiring former All-Star Jeff Hoffman and cash from the Blue Jays for a package including prospects Dasan Hill (Twins' No. 7 prospect), John Klein (No. 17) and Dameury Pena, as well as international bonus pool space."

Thanks for those scattered 23.1 innings where you looked like Mariano Rivera, Jeff.

Saw the Hoffman trade and thought of you. User Sharivari is very upset that his beloved Spaghetti got traded.

I'd forgotten Soriano's Bob Gibson impression in April...Some Facebook notes on yesterday's episode of The Blue Jays Way:

Part 4 covers 1993--good year, as you may have heard. Three stories I think the episode shortchanges, or misses altogether:

1) There’s mention of the Jays’ unprecedented 1-2-3 finish in the batting race--Olerud, Molitor, Alomar--but nothing on Olerud’s flirtation with .400, which was easily the biggest Jays story midway through the season. He was still at .400 after the team’s 107th game on August 2. (Olerud finished third in MVP voting, although he was ahead of the winner Frank Thomas in WAR, 7.8 to 6.2. Griffey had both beat at 8.8.)

2) No mention that Ward, the team’s new closer, had arguably the greatest year ever for a Jays closer: 45 saves (still a team record), 2.13 ERA.
3) After being one of the main stories of E3, Jack Morris is barely mentioned (if at all). He was still with the team--had a miserable year and didn’t pitch in the playoffs.

Things I’d forgotten: 1) Dick Schofield was the starting SS before he got hurt and Tony Fernandez was reacquired; 2) Toronto’s Rob Butler was part of the team, including two AB in the WS; 3) Lenny Dykstra’s epic G4 (Jays won 15-14): Dykstra had a double, two HR, a walk, a stolen base, and scored and knocked in four.

Two of the best interview clips: 1) Todd Stottlemyre, still haunted by something else I’d forgotten, his run-in with the Philadelphia mayor; 2) Devon White (probably the best interview subject across the four episodes) talking about Rickey Henderson, how he’d question Henderson about when he planned to run: “Rickey just run.”

The Jays did really well with the Gausman, Hoffman, and Varsho trades. They traded the guys they needed to trade, and they somehow flew under the radar while doing so (all the attention is going to the Dodgers, and the trades for Rutschman, Arraez, Mize, etc.)

Rickey Henderson was having a great year before he came to the Jays, badly underperformed while he was with the Jays, left, and then went right back to being awesome. This has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I think some people chalked it up to the pressure of coming to a new team with high expectations, but Rickey had already been to the playoffs a few times in Oakland and played several years in NY, he's the last guy you'd expect to buckle under the pressure, it doesn't fit his personality.

Considering the circumstances (pennant race, chance to win the WS), those 44 regular season games with the Jays (plus 12 more in the playoffs) had to be the worst slump of Rickey's career. They won the WS anyway, but still.

I didn't mention that, but yeah, another thing the epidsode didn't mention. I've always been fascinated by that. Henderson was in the middle of one of his greatest seasons when they landed him (through 90 games): 77 runs, 17 HR, 31/37 SB, .327/.469/.553, 182 OPS+. He just died the rest of the way: .215/.356/.319. Honestly, he was never a dominant player again after that. He had a couple of good seasons--Oakland in '95, the Mets in '99--but for the rest of his career from '94 on, .254/.392/.368, 104 OPS+. He still got on base and still scored runs, but not the same player--normal aging (35 in '94), compounded by playing forever. But it wasn't gradual--more like a cliff.

I guess, if you're charitable, you could say that getting him was worth it for the one AB where he led off the 9th inning of G6 with a walk, and what that must have done to Williams having him out there on the bases. (Steve Karsay, who they gave up, had an okay, up-and-down career.)

I forgot all about Scherzer's chance to pass Walter Johnson the other day and move into the Top 10 for strikeouts, so, typical this season, I didn't tune in. I so regret that--he indeed did, and that will never happen again. (Going to run a Favorite Toy on Miz and Skenes later, but I expect they're long-shots because of IP.)

he apparently didn't! there's a stat scandal between BBRef and the elias sports bureau (which is MLB's official lord of stats). he's still 6 or so behind according to them. they made ZERO mention of it during his last game (at least beyond the 2nd inning when i tuned in)

also, wow. Steve Karsay is a name that brings me back. have a few of his rookie cards hidden away somewhere

Wow, didn't hear about that...assume he'll get there, though.

Not as dire as I thought for Skenes and Miz. Can't do Miz yet--you need three seasons of data--but Skenes comes out at 30% for 3,000 and 15% to pass Gaylord Perry's 3,534 (who I assume will soon slip back to 10th spot). Miz, after 2027, should be even higher. So: longshot, but could happen with either of those guys, assuming present usage patterns.*

*By 2035, starters may be expected to go three innings.

(If you get an offer on the Karsay cards, take it.)

The A's also got José Herrera in the Henderson deal as the player to be named later.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herrejo02.shtml

Sounds very ELIAS, likely getting word to broadcasters not to mention it. James used to despise how proprietary they were about stats.

am low-key currious what they are seeing that BBref isn't

https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/stark_jayson/1166840.html

(Goes back to Clemens passing Johnson, but same answer as today.)

so the TLDR being that in Walter Johnson's first season, strikeouts weren't an official stat, so records from that year are especially hard to confirm

Vlad's OPS down to .687, about 50 points above Myles Straw's.

Vlad's SLG was nearly the lowest on the team in the starting lineup last night (one point ahead of Gimenez, and three ahead of Straw).