So who wins the Carlos Beltran Sweepstakes?

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Rob Neyer said in a chat today he'd guess the Padres or A's, and I think Joe Sheehan said last week a Cali team with SD in the lead.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 21 May 2004 21:21 (twenty years ago) link

Brewers all the way,
we would trade the whole roster
plus Uecker and Yost

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 22 May 2004 00:01 (twenty years ago) link

dodgers, a's, maybe pads although i hadn't considered them. possibly sox, and if george goes berzerk, yankees. i guess it would be wise of the giants to go after him, but somehow i don't see it happening.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 May 2004 01:08 (twenty years ago) link

Does the A's really have the cash to spend to sign him up beyond this season? The way I understood things, they were going to concentrate on keeping that starting pitching staff together.

San Diego really needs another starting pitcher more than a hitter.

The Dodgers are for sale, so I doubt that they would trade for a player that they could only use for the rest of the season or tie up in a huge contract (then again the Red Sox sold after they signed Ramierez for too much money).

The Yanks going after Beltran makes more sense than going after some of the veterans they have signed of late. I think they need to get a starting pitcher more than another outfielder, but at least Beltran is a centerfielder, so that might fix a defensive problem.

SF is the team that really, really needs to get a hitter, but they seem to be stingy with the checkbook, which is suprising considering how well many tickets they have sold in the past few years. I guess they are nostalgic for that empty stadium feel they used to get quite often at Candlestick.

The Red Sox are not going to trade or sign for another big contract outfielder/hitter until Manny is gone.


earlnash, Saturday, 22 May 2004 15:19 (twenty years ago) link

how about until nomar and/or pedro are gone, earl?

if the a's traded for him it would be a rental + draft picks thing. i think they're a long shot as well.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 May 2004 16:17 (twenty years ago) link

don't count out the o's. they have lots of $ to spend in order to re-sign belltron 3000 and have coveted him for a long time.

j.q. higgins, Saturday, 22 May 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago) link

Scoring runs seems to never be the problem with Boston, they always seem to be either short in starting pitching or in the bullpen.

With the O's playing well and seemingly on the upswing, I suppose that wouldn't be out of the question.

Maybe Pudge and his agent will talk him into going to Detroit.

earlnash, Saturday, 22 May 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago) link

actually, with lowe's troubles boston's starting pitching probably could be improved. but the yankees need SP more, so i'd expect them to block any boston deal for a starter. of course, last year they tried to block a couple sox deals with arguably superior offers and were immediately turned down. the asking price is higher for the yankees, and that's not just me whining. the floyd deal (sox offer projected back of the rotation starter (sun woo kim); yankees: nick johnson or bust), the williamson deal (sox offer, what, phil dumatrait? - 22 y/o putting up decent numbers in A-ball; yankees: brandon clausen (24 y/o tearing up AAA) or bust), and the schilling deal (sox: lefty middle reliever and projected 3-5 starter, yankees: alfonso soriano AND nick johnson) demonstrate that. the red sox won all three deals, obviously. it's really more inept GMing than anything else; not-stupid GMs would take advantage of the rivalry instead of gleefully screwing one side in favor of the other.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 May 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

Well spun!

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 22 May 2004 18:31 (twenty years ago) link

Point of clarification, I believe that in MLB teams can't swap draft picks, only the players chosen.

earl -- the Giant's company line is that the stadium mortgage has the team in the red, though the claim that even with ~3 million tix + naming rights = negative has me raising the People's Eyebrow too.

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Saturday, 22 May 2004 18:37 (twenty years ago) link

no leee the point is they'd offer arb and get the draft picks from whomever swipes up carlos.

david, i'd love to hear your "take". as far as i know that's all fact.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 May 2004 18:57 (twenty years ago) link

I don't doubt the actual facts (the players involved) - I just like the way you shaded your interpretation, s'all. I imagine there are ways to spin things to shade things anti-Yank re: what the team's needs were & the chinks in the Yank chits' armor (cf. Claussen's & Johnson's injury history, Soriano's age questions & escalating cost). And let's not forget the Yanks eventually used Claussen & players to fetch Aaron Boone & Gabe White.

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 22 May 2004 20:23 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, and it was a stupid trade...

the point is that johnson, soriano, and claussen all had far more value than what the red sox gave up (and god, sori + johnson, that was just insane! let's remember that the yankees ended up trading johnson alone for vazquez, a pitcher a decade younger than schilling, and that was still overpayment [where overpayment = paying more than vazquez was objectively worth - the yankees gave up near-equal value in a salary dump, folks, injury-prone player or not. that hasn't happened in a long time (ever?) and won't happen again anytime soon.]) and there was plenty of "in-between", even given the shoddy state of the yankees farm system. supposing the reds were limiting themselves to "left-handed pitching prospects" - that's stupid in and of itself; it's even dumber when one considers that they yankees still had other chips to offer even with that limit imposed (brad halsey and sean henn, at least). plus, trading for a non-hotshot pitcher in single A is idiotic if you're looking to address a need on the ML club, when there's certainly no guarantee he's even going to make the bigs, much less within the next couple years.

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 May 2004 21:11 (twenty years ago) link

re: that last point, i googled dumatrait and found: http://www.letsplay2.com/baseball/profile.cfm?playerId=3818

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 22 May 2004 21:12 (twenty years ago) link

"the Giant's company line is that the stadium mortgage has the team in the red, though the claim that even with ~3 million tix + naming rights = negative has me raising the People's Eyebrow too."

My personal bet is the ownership are making up revenue lost in other enterprises. They wouldn't be the first, the worse of this bunch was Art Modell with the Browns.

earlnash, Sunday, 23 May 2004 00:38 (twenty years ago) link

from what i understand (i have a friend who works for the giants), the unpublicized problem with the giants is that they opened pacbell park in the middle of a regional economy boom and had corporate sponsership and corporate events lined up at premium values. in the past several years, corporate sponsorship has dropped off considerably leaving what was at once a major source of income for the franchise to dry up.

gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 23 May 2004 18:33 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...
i dreamt last night: pierzynski/alfonzo/rueter for beltran

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:47 (twenty years ago) link

That would've happened 2 years ago.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 12:50 (twenty years ago) link

That's definitely a dream...

CB was quoted saying awfully nice thing about the Yankees to the NY media when the Mets were in KC. I expect another winter windfall in the Bronx, regardless of who rents him this summer.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:08 (twenty years ago) link

Neyer from ESPN chat yesterday:

"Beltran just might be the most overrated player in the majors today. ...he's got pinstripes written all over him."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:09 (twenty years ago) link

seven months pass...
backended: [bak-en-ded] (adj) Beltran to be paid until 2018

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago) link

eleven years pass...

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/178504108/carlos-beltran-hof-400-home-runs-yankees

His WAR ranking among center fielders suggests can't-miss, but I sort of resist. The two things that bother me are the itinerant nature of his career (if you're Rickey Henderson or Adrian Beltre, no problem; with Beltran, I can see where it might matter), and the fact that he hasn't done a whole lot since his age-31 season--his two years with the Cardinals were good, not great. Ballot timing may be the deciding factor, I don't know.

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 00:53 (eight years ago) link

why does the itinerant nature of his career bother you (because it shouldn't)

mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 01:58 (eight years ago) link

I do think a player's story line is a part of the Hall of Fame equation and you have to admit, being a guy associated with 1 or 2 clubs especially if you won is a positive measure on voting. On that note, I would think Beltran's playoff exploits will be one item on his resume.

Carlos Beltran has had a nice recovery in his career, he looked to be beat up and done at one point in his early 30s. While no longer top player in the game, he has been a very solid and consistent bat. The guy was supremely talented, he excelled really at all parts of the game, not really any flaws at his peak. I think that is notable too.

earlnash, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 02:23 (eight years ago) link

I think Duke Snyder seems to be a very similar player, overall. While Billy Williams was primarily used in LF, I'd say he is probably somewhat similar to Beltran. Beltran's peak seasons are perhaps a bit better but Williams was healthier and more consistent.

earlnash, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 02:26 (eight years ago) link

I shouldn't have used Beltre as an example of moving around--he's primarily split his career between three teams, perfectly normal nowadays. Better examples would be Gary Sheffield or Kevin Brown, and I'm guessing they were hurt to a degree with HOF voters because they weren't strongly identified with one or two teams. (Bizarrely itinerant: Kenny Lofton. Ten years with one team, one year with 10 teams.)

Maybe it shouldn't matter. Someone always wants you. Someone else doesn't want you enough.

clemenza, Wednesday, 18 May 2016 02:34 (eight years ago) link


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