TS: All Star Voting Rationale: Homerism vs. Season To Date Stats vs. Last 2-3 Year's Performance vs. ?????

Namely because I think a hot first third/half does not an all-star make...

I generally look at the last 2-3 years' performance to cast my votes.

Last year + this season: 80%

Older performance: 5%

Not being a Yankee: 15%

Homerism: 0% (Piazza's the only Met worthy of going the last few years)

Now that we can vote, what, 50 times online? -- I sometimes cast "Nader votes" for overlooked players who deserve to finish high if the frontrunner is a shoo-in.

I have voted for Yankees, begrudgingly, usually Giambi and Posada.

A-Rod ain't no established 3B yet ... vote Melvin Mora!

I vote for who's cutest.

I write in Willie McGee.

same thing.

dude the all-star game is voted on every year, so using past performance is ridiculous and unfair. i vote 50/50 homerism + performance. no red sox allowed except in very special cases. and "established" stars can eat dick.

Are you going to vote for Mora @ 3B?

um, no.

you should revise your "50/50 homerism/performance" to at least 75/25 then... :-P

if you want me to rationalize it for you a bit

mora
ZR: .684
FP: .902

a-rod:
ZR: .812
FP: .971

a-rod's been a gold glover defensively. mora's dead last amoung qualified candidates in zone rating AND fielding percentage (ie he's been far and away the worst defensive 3B in baseball) and by the all-star break arod will have closed the offensive gap. but i have nothing against mora and i'm certainly not voting against him because he's been "hot".

xpost i don't think so

nice, how about jeets then?

(also: can you tell me what's going wrong with Quantrill? Please?)

what's wrong with quantrill: he was used too much, and he was never THAT good. i predicted a 3.50+ ERA for the year. pecota predicted much higher.

jeter? the joke is on you, my friend. jeter has been one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball this year.

btw i was partially bullshitting about quantrill because i really haven't been interested since our bullpen overall has been ok. but his peripherals are whack. he's not inducing as many GBs as he should, his k-rate is down, his walks are up. why? maybe cuz he's old and banged up. relievers are largely a crapshoot, especially old ones.

>"established" stars can eat dick.

So we can assume you'll be voting for that KC first baseman? Ken Harvey, Paul Harvey, Harvey Wallbanger?

Re Mora, don't you think being the 2nd-most productive batter in the game (JUST behind Bonds in Equivalent Runs etc) more than makes up for crap defense? If Glaus wasn't hurt or Chavez were doing better you'd have a better argument against Melvin.

Jeter's Range Factor and Zone Rating are indeed uncharacteristically good right now... shouldn't we expect him to regress?

Jeter's range factor & zone rating being high = Enrique & A-Rod covering his dead ass?

a-rod might play a role in it, so might the pitching staff overhaul. but his ZR is like 100 points higher than it was last year. could be sample size, but it's been consistent. you're right though enrique's 2B ZR is also extremely high, so who knows.

doctor, has mora been more valuable? possibly, but like i said, i'm a homer. here's something to consider (a bit arbitrary admittedly): the diff in eqr is 10 runs. between 2000-2003, the difference between the 3rd best 3B and the fourth worst 3B per 162 games was 39 runs. if the difference between arod and mora is half of half that, you've made up the offensive difference.

on the other hand arod has been horrid with RISP, but we're only talking 41 ABs.

oh, i got that info from here: http://www.tangotiger.net/UZR0003.html. i did 3rd best/4th worst because they were both extremes without being outliers.

Shortstop
Player Name Team Total Votes
1. Garciaparra, N. Red Sox 412,742
2. Jeter, D. Yankees 396,268
3. Tejada, M. Orioles 299,517
4. Young, M. Rangers 292,763
5. Eckstein, D. Angels 95,450

hmm.

This year's performance - 50%
Whether I like the guy or not - 50% (homerism not so much since I'm anti-Ranger)

Well, Jeter is hitting about .750 against the Orioles this season...

doc about ken harvey: doubtful because giambi is a viable option there. otherwise yeah, why not? actually thomas is probably the statistical fave right now, but i'd vote harvey over him if he keeps hitting for an insane average (and might if giambi has a comfortable lead. harvey is funny cuz he's a fat, slow IB but pretty much all his value is in his batting average. that doesn't happen very often)

this thing about being able to vote 50 times: WHY??? and i think that SS vote total confirms that the red sox have more losers in the fanbase than any other team.

Yeah, nice to see the Yankees finish second for once!

wow, Harvey was on waivers in my fantasy league until like yesterday when I snagged him.

C'mon, Harvey has had 2 good months! Giambi is the dependable choice, yes, but he may be too injury-hampered to be deserving. As slow as he's started, what about Carlos Delgado for his '03? And I believe Big Hurt is listed at DH.

If A-Rod was on the ballot (and the field) at SS where he belongs, I'd vote for him.

Nice factoid: How many players on Opening Day rosters this year had previously been selected to All-Star teams?

(below)

200!

"C'mon, Harvey has had 2 good months!"

and if he makes it three, i think he's plenty worthy, esp. if we're talking about him over the like of 10-time all-stars.

"Giambi is the dependable choice, yes, but he may be too injury-hampered to be deserving."

we'll see.

"As slow as he's started, what about Carlos Delgado for his '03?"

ok, this is what i'm talking about. what's more preposterous, voting for a guy because he's been good for 2-3 months of the 2004 season for the 2004 all-star game, or voting for a guy who's been terrible the first 2-3 months of the 2004 season for the 2004 all-star game because "he was good in 2003"? his 2003 performance was rewarded in 2003, why should it be again the next year?

i thought you were right about thomas but i just clicked to see the ballot and he's on there but not konerko??

It's more preposterous to vote based on 2 months.

>his 2003 performance was rewarded in 2003

Wasn't Giambi voted the 1B spot last year, when Delgado had the superior season? So exactly how has Carlos been rewarded?

I'm marking down Raffy for '93-'03

fuck that shit Carlos Quintana at 1b!

omg yes

50% this year
45% cardinal homerism
5% past performance

morbs, i don't think so. giambi hit that HR off wagner pretty late, so it's doubtful he was starting. he also hit .373/.554/.819 in june after supposedly having styes in his eyes the first month and a half so it wouldn't be as poor a vote as it might seem.

(here we go: http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20030706&content_id=412192&vkey=allstar2003&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

OK, I had no memory of Delgado winning that vote, thanks.

Man, how absurd is Matsui winning an OF starting spot last year, especially since he's better this year and likely has no shot?

he also had a huge june, which helped, + japanese loyalists + nyy hordes and it's a no brainer (explanation wise). i can't remember if i voted for him or not.

The OTHER Matsui has a decent rationale for NL SS this year, myopic glovework aside, as Renteria and Furcal have been hurt and/or woeful.

i'd definitely like to vote for renteria but if he keeps up and wilson doesn't freefall i'm not sure that i will

Gear wrote in the other thread about KrukDope and HRbot picking All-Stars blind on BBTN, solely by triple crown stats...

>at worst they're nice guys with an old-school, backwards thinking perspective, no harm intended.<

That's way too generous. Don't waste my time with "nice guys" who won't think!!! As someone who hated Cosell in my youth, it pains me to say he was 100% right about the "jockocracy" in sportscasting. Worse, the ESPN clowns are just encouraging people's worst instincts by confirming those 3 categories as the end-all of player value. I'd like to tattoo "RBI is a team-context stat" on all the air staff's foreheads.