Baseball 2004 -- Second Half Thread

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Atlanta in 1st place! Who saw that one coming? Chipper and Andruw Jones haven't done squat, Giles missed most of the first half and yet mid-July and they are in a race. Braves starting pitching has been solid and Leo M. has had success bringing Jaret Wright back from the junk pile.

Bowa has to be sweating, as they just can't pull away. Phillies have plenty of pop in the lineup and a couple of decent pitchers, but just don't seem to have "it".

Mets and Marlins are suprises. Marlins are banged up and they just don't have the magic from last year. Cabrera has cost them a couple of games with his fielding in RF, it is almost Mannyesque. Mets pitching has been OK, as the old folks home seems to be hitting their marks. The Mets don't seem to have enough hitting.

Texas is holding tough. Neither Oakland or the Angels seem to be able to sustain a run. I think it could be tight to the wire.

Houston seems to be dead in the water, I can't figure it out. That division is rough as Milwaukee has good pitching, Cinci can hit and Pittsburgh loses eight straight then wins six in a row. The Cubs are holding up well considering the injuries, but having to play against that division might give them some problems with the Wildcard. St. Louis playing so well had has such a lead, it is seeming like they are the team to beat in the NL.

SF is a mystery. I look at their team stats and I can't figure out how they win. Other than Schmidt and Bonds, they seem to be faceless. They have been winning a bunch the last month and half and people might notice if it wasn't the Cards running wild. LA has good pitching, but their lineup is shaky. Being able to beat up on Arizona and the Rockies helps both of these teams chances to get in the playoffs.

Neither the Sox or the Twins seem overpowering, so I think they will be neck and neck to the end.

Boston is going to have to keep winning, as I think they are going to be in the middle of a tight race for the wild card and won't catch the Yanks. David Ortiz has really turned into a killer power hitter. The Yanks having to call for El Duque as a 'savior' doesn't bode well for their starting pitching. They might win the division running away, but I think NY will be vulnerable in the playoffs.

earlnash, Monday, 19 July 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i hate to say it but i think boston may be on the verge of collapse. nomar acting all petulent and bitchy, manny going on one of his thrice-yearly elliptical orbits around pluto, nobody but pedro and schilling capable of stringing 6 decent innings together... and i haven't even mentioned the defense. i think they need to grab an impact player in the next two weeks if for no other reason than the team needs a wake up. they certainly aren't going to get one from terry francoma.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I put the Cubs on the verge of collapse right now, too, pending outcome of the 2 game series with the Cards (the last meeting of the season, thanks schedule-makers!).

They have the best staff ERA in baseball and can't do shit to support them. The Brewers averaged about 2.5 runs in their last 7 games with the Cubs and won 5 of the 7. In order of importance, here's what I think the Cubs need to get to the playoffs this year:

- Batting order shakeup. Alou is just killing this team batting 4th. Sammy's not doing much in the 3 slot, either. There's no reason this team shouldn't be scoring more runs with Lee and Ramirez as good as they've been.
- Bullpen help
- Finding a relatively high OBP guy to play SS (Omar Vizquel?)

mattbot (mattbot), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm telling you mattbot, if hendry has a chance to grab nomar he would transform this line up. not the best defensive glove in the league but among the top 5. his range would be a huge upgrade to what they have now. you could bat him anywhere from first to 6th in the line up but i think he'd be most effective in the #2 slot, ahead of sammy, dlee, alout, and aramis ramirez.

but it probably won't happen if johnson doesn't want to play in boston.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

or alou. a lout alou who cares.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

re: phils

thome and abreu are having monster years, burrell and bell are putting up good power numbers, too, but the phils don't seem to have good table setters. i'm not sold on jimmy rollins and placido polanco.

re: cards

how much of their pitching is smoke and mirrors? can carpenter hold really stay on a roll? is marquis legit? that being said, pujols, edmonds and rolen are all having incredible years.

j.q. higgins, Monday, 19 July 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

SF is a mystery. I look at their team stats and I can't figure out how they win. Other than Schmidt and Bonds, they seem to be faceless.

While the Giants are middle of the MLB pack in terms of Batting Average, they are 3rd in the majors in OBP (thanks to you know who).

As great as his last 3 seasons have been, Bonds is putting up career-best numbers in terms of:
Batting Average (.371 vs. his career best .370 in '02)
On-Base Percentage (.628 on pace to obliterate his MLB record of .582 in '02)
On-Base Plus Slugging (1.420 should obliterate his MLB record of 1.381 in '02)

Bonds owns the season/career MLB records in BBs/IBBs, but look at this season in particular:
2001: 177/35
2002: 198*/68 *MLB record
2003: 148/61
2004: 137/77* MLB record

Homeruns vs. Strikeouts:
2001: 73/93 = 0.78
2002: 46/47 = 0.98
2003: 45/58 = 0.78
2004: 24/21 = 1.14 (which is unbelievable if you think about it)

So yeah, I think that statistician who published the report that teams are better off pitching to Bonds was on to something. Bonds being on base 3 times a game creates an intangible value that defies conventional baseball wisdom.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

If I were playing Cubs GM, I'd give up just about any prospect(s) to get Nomar, even if for half a year. The Cubs are tits deep in pitching prospects and it's not like they're all going to get a chance to play with 3 of the 5 rotation spots seemingly cemented for several years to come. The rumors on that trade have died considerably in the last few days, it seems.

Re: Cards pitching
From what I've seen, they're a really solid pitching staff. HOWEVER, I think the Cards staff faces the same question as the Yankees', namely, is this the type of rotation that a team could rely on in a short playoff series?

Re: Giants (whoops, xpost)
I would like to hear the perspective of a SFO fan, because I can't figure out what's driving this team either. Especially after they got off to such a horrendous start. I see the clubhouse cancer has picked up his play a bit, and Schmidt is Schmidt, but what else is there?

mattbot (mattbot), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

St. Louis relief pitching has been pretty good and has kept them in games. That being said, the guys that are getting the job done are not people you think of as being aces. Their starters are solid, but there is not one single guy that has that overwhelming #1 starter stuff. The Angels won it all with good hitting and a solid bullpen, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility.

The years the Cubs have won the division, they always had a good leadoff man to get on base. They have no team speed at all, so they can't hit and run or do things to manufacture runs. They hit way too many solo HRs. I don't think they are ready to collapse, but it is going to be tight to win 90-94 games to win the wild card because of the competitive nature of the division. I think Nomar would be a good pickup and I think Boston would be wise to try and get Mitre and a couple of other young pitchers for him. Boston doesn't need Nomar's bat as much as they need good young pitching.

Jimmy Rollins has played real well since the beginning of June. He was only hitting around .200 until late May and has had a bunch of good games of late. Like many guys these days, he doesn't draw enough walks and strikes out a bunch for a lead off hitter. Polanco was hurt for a month and a half, but I think the guy they had playing for him did OK.

earlnash, Monday, 19 July 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Neither Oakland or the Angels seem to be able to sustain a run. I think it could be tight to the wire.

Oakland A's splits pre-allstar/post-allstar/result:

2000: 48-38/43-32 = 91-70 AL West Champs
2001: 44-43/58-17 = 102-60 AL Wildcard
2002: 50-38/53-21 = 103-59 AL West Champs
2003: 54-39/42-27 = 96-66 AL West Champs
2004: 47-39/ ???

considering that oakland is carrying a .669 win-loss percentage over the back of the past 4 seasons, i would be very skeptical of any predictions of them not being able to sustain a run (esp. now that Barry Zito is looking much better than he was over the past 2 months).

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The A's as of yet this season, have not yet made a sustained run. Zito has had a couple of good starts after getting shellacked by the Sox and Chavez is now healthy, so they may be ready. Their bullpen isn't nearly as good as it has been in the past few years either.

earlnash, Monday, 19 July 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I really hope Texas wins that division, although I know the likelihood is slim. How long 'til they get out from under yoke of that Chan Ho Park contract, anyway?

Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The irony of this baseball season for me is that I'm moving back to Houston next month and it's beginning to look like October baseball might only played in Arlington.

boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Remember when everyone said Jeff Kent would hit 40 HR a year in Minute Maid?

Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

not me, i hate that a-hole. he should have had been given 2 errors in the allstar game.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

boldbury, are you ever gonna make a roughriders game?

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

He also has a really ridiculous moustache.

Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

my favorite jeff kent moment:

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/mlb/2002/0626/photo/i_bondskent_hi.gif

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Kent has been pretty solid offensively in his year and a half in Houston, but his power numbers have been underwhelming.

There's a movement among the natives to ship Kent out and let Chris Burke from AAA finish out the year at 2B.

boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not looking likely that I'll make it to a Rough Riders game in the next three weeks. Unless you'll be making a visit to JCP in that time, then I'll make it a priority.

And speaking of ridiculous moustaches, a co-worker returned from a week of vacation today with Ironic Moustache, minus the irony. I asked him if was auditioning for the remake of Smokey and the Bandit.

boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

chase utley has played some 2nd for the phils and is definitely an offensive upgrade from polanco. haven't really seen him in the field enough to comapre defensively.

j.q. higgins, Monday, 19 July 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

That's also my favorite Shawon Dunston moment.

"Stay back, let Barry kill him."

Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

The walking Bonds things has gotten totally outta control. (not that I would've noticed if he wasn't on my fantasy team.) But is it because he is scarier then last year or the line-up is weaker? Were I Felipe, I'd bat him first.

bnw (bnw), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

But is it because he is scarier then last year or the line-up is weaker?

if "scarier" = able to hit the ball better:
his BA = .371 TY vs. .341 LY

if "scarier" = able to hit the ball further:
his SLG = .792 TY vs. .749 LY

so yes, jose cruz, rich aurilia, benito santiago and andres galarraga are no longer giants but do you really think any of these guys "protected" Bonds?

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

How often are they walking Bonds? Check this out:

Giants RBI Leaders:
Pedro Feliz - 52
Bonds - 51
Marquis Grissom - 51
Edgardo Alfonzo - 49
AJ Pierzenski - 48

I think like the 'Hack a Shaq', walking Bonds might work somewhat in the short run, but fails in the long run.

earlnash, Monday, 19 July 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i kinda agree until i realize that 24 of Bonds' 51 RBIs came off his homeruns.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Various lineup suggestions I've heard about the Giants:

  • Bat JT Snow leadoff, Barry second.
  • Against a RHP, bat Barry third, stack lefties (JT, AJ, Tucker) after him

    How they win = the three two-headed monster in right isn't sucking too bad lately.

    How they lose = bullpen. HERGES YOU ARE DEMISING MY TEAM IN MORE WAYS THAN 1.

    The Dreaded Rear Admiral (Leee), Monday, 19 July 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

  • Here's the JT Snow solution that Lee is referring to:

    link

    I'm not sure I buy it, I think that having the slowest team in the majors having Snow, Bonds and Pierzynski (who I'm not sure if JT can remember how many double plays AJ's grounded into batting behind Bonds) in the meat of the order can't be a good solution.

    gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

    esp. because Tucker has the 2nd highest OBP on the team aside from Bonds. I think Alou is doing a fine job with lineup balancing with what he has to deal with, I think the other Giants are definitely overperforming their career stats on paper (HELLO DEIVI CRUZ).

    gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

    Atlanta just took solo first place, 17-5 over their last 22. Does anybody think they'll give it up? They looked really good tonight. Chipper doesn't have to worry as much about his hamstrings at third, Giles is back, Charles Thomas is worrying managers to the tune of 4 or 5 intentional walks in 50-something games, Estrada/Drew = Lopez/Sheffield (or almost). Hampton seems to be back, Smoltz, etc etc blah blah. Am I missing something or are they going to win the East again?

    Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

    Charles Thomas has 5 intentional walks because he hits 8th - the fact that he's hitting .500 (or something like that) is just a happy coincidence.

    David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

    leo mazzone does seem to have the reclamation all stars firing on all cylinders. i mean: jaret wright? paul byrd? russ ortiz leads the majors in wins over the last two seasons for fuck's sake!

    j.q. higgins, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

    The Braves current pitching staff success definitely adds on to the reputation of Leo M.

    Jaret Wright looked like a budding star when he first came up with Cleveland and before he hurt his arm. He was a clutch pitcher that year in the playoffs for the Indians and would have perhaps been the MVP if they would have held on to the lead. I'm glad to see he has been able to get things back together.


    earlnash, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

    going back to a discussion form earlier in the year, you'd have to think that if the phils don't win that division, bowa is toast.

    phils haven't even had the offensive injuries the braves have and still haven't been able to close shit out.

    j.q. higgins, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

    The sooner they shitcan Bowa, the sooner the Phils will take what's rightfully theirs. I don't know if Bowa bouncing will help their pitching woes, though - maybe shitcan Kerrigan?

    David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

    Atlanta is rolling, they are now up 3.5 in the East! What a turnaround...

    St. Louis is a freaking juggernaut. Considering NY questionable pitching and injury situation, there is no doubt that the Cards are the current team to beat in baseball.

    Oakland is knocking on the door, as the Texas' lead is down to a .5 game. Boston has to keep pace with these two clubs, as along with the Angels and perhaps the White Sox, the wild card is going to be tight.

    How about Cleveland's low rent sluggers! They are the top scoring team in baseball, over the NY/Boston financial axis and the Rockies freak of physics offense.

    I think Bowa has about a week. Don't know when they have their next day off or start their next road trip, but that might be the day unless they start winning. Philly is a harsh sports town, that town seems to raise the pressure to all it's sports teams. Just wait until this fall when the Eagles D is giving up 500 yards a game, I'm sure T.O. will get just as much love as Bowa, once he starts mouthing off.

    Earl Nash (earlnash), Friday, 30 July 2004 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

    I wanna talk run differentials. Admittedly I've not paid much attention to a team's runs scored and runs allowed until this year. If a team's record hasn't regressed to the mean by now, will it by the end of September? Yeah, yeah, I remember the Royals. I'm focusing on the top of the NL because I'm feeling lazy tonight:

    Team     Run Diff.    Over/under .500
    STL +108 +29
    LA +52 +17
    SD +38 +11
    ATL +61 +9
    SFO +9 +9
    CHC +79 +8
    PHI +2 +2
    FLO +4 +2
    HOU +36 0


    Is there anything to be made of this? To my eyes, the NL West is racking up a disproportionately good W-L record. Is that just an anomaly or is there a strength of schedule component that's helping the NLW teams rack up higher W-L records than we should expect based on their RS-RA?

    I'll be watching this!

    mattbot (mattbot), Friday, 30 July 2004 03:52 (twenty-one years ago)

    i have no idea why, but the yankees have beaten their pythagorean record like 7 of the past 8 years (to throw a couple numbers out). someone should study the phenomenon, but i'm guessing it has to do with shitty long relief but a strong back of bullpen (i'm assuming blowouts skew the results, right?). that would lead to a lot of blowouts on the loss side, and a lot of "lost" blowouts on the won side, that ended up in the W column anyway because of mo (and except for last year the yankees also had pretty good middle relief i think) nailing it down when it gets tough. i dunno, that's just a guess and i haven't thought about it much. hard to believe prospectus hasn't studied the issue, but last i checked (some time ago) the yanks were way over their head this year as well.

    John (jdahlem), Friday, 30 July 2004 04:00 (twenty-one years ago)

    yanks are at about +7 right now. maybe torre is just an unbelievable manager [don't think so]. or perhaps they really are God's team.

    John (jdahlem), Friday, 30 July 2004 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)


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