"playing the game the right way"

jeter, kendall, pierre, rolen, podsednik are some of my favorite players to watch. i'd add chone figgins to that list as well, as he's as close to a human highlight reel as a baseball player can get.

i've never understood why it's unfashionable to play hard and show respect (to teammates, the game, opponents, whatever), but acting in as thuggish a manner as possible makes you a beloved badass. i can understand liking that kind of attitude when it's YOUR guy, but that doesn't really explain the nationwide appeal of idiots like shockey or iverson (both of whom i appreciate but for reasons mostly different from everyone else).

/old man rant

Schilling is a marvelous pitcher and a self-serving, 14-karat phony. First there was his post-9/11 "open letter" to the fans, now his dopey Sons of Sam Horn bb bullshit. Annoying drama queen.

i third or fourth or whatever the schilling comments (i think i've told you guys about the time he came on a yankees bb and i got banned for telling him to fuck off).

Some times I think Schilling is just a slightly mouthier Al Leiter.

Also strange, no Ken Harvey on that list.

http://www.ljworld.com/art/apps/pennynews/1053845988_sportsROYALS.jpg

BB isn't on the list because he's: a) too talented, b) doesn't (largely) take advantage of the shift against him (see whatever thread i mentioned last month where he *did* against the O's), and c) is kind of a dick.

you're absolutely right about jeter. and he's always first out of the dugout on a HR and he always looks like he's enjoying himself, without being irritating about it like sosa.

i didn't catch gear's race thingy the first time 'round. maybe latins & blacks on the whole are less organized/disciplined at the lower levels, or maybe latins & blacks who play the game "the right way" are regarded as "flashy", while whites are "hard-nosed"? (yeah yeah or maybe the ppl writing that list are racist, i'm not good at making lists cuz i always leave things out, so if there are notable latin/black exceptions i'm probably not going to notice.)

re: erstad, i haven't caught him much (didn't watch most of the playoffs in '02) but he's widely regarded as a "110%" guy (i remember torre calling for the yanks to trade for him last year for this reason, much to my chagrin) and he plays a fantastic centerfield by all accounts. it's not his fault the angels management are uncreative! (he's also putting up good numbers for a CF again so far this year)

as for him being a 1B, like i said, not his fault. (though actually the 1B average is only .284 so he's still above average overall) (though most of that high eqa is batting average, which will likely go down, and park effects stuff, which should count, even though angels stadium doesn't seem to hurt him any)

Jamie Moyer should get some props. He got good at a time most people start to fade. He was the centerpiece on an article in ESPN the magazine last year about players getting the most out of their talent and many of his teammates thought he could become an excellent pitching coach after he retires.

I've always liked Marquis Grissom as a player, when he first came up he was bit like Tim Raines and was absolutely fearless on the basepaths. I never could understand why the Braves let him go, as he seemed to have spark they sometimes lacked and was killer in the playoffs.

Barry Larkin has always been a classy player. He turned down more money a couple of times to keep playing in his hometown, even though the Reds organization is pretty shady.

Another player I have always heard good things about is Tim Salmon.

For the Jeter lovers, I wish I had that spring SI quote where he said (I'm paraphrasing) he has trouble concentrating in "non-pressure" situations.

interesting, very reminiscent of the protagonist in the movie "glitter".

thank you for listening!

Clearly the contemporary types who talk about "110%," "making other players better" THINK it's to do with winning. Just like they admired Pete Rose for running to first on walks -- damn, how many Win Shares is that worth?

Damn, I need to find a brilliant pisstake BP article from 2 weeks ago that addressed all this dumbo "team player" crap in one pile; very funny...

I will cop to Erstad's numbers being somewhat better than I'd realized this year ... but as BP said when they moved him to first, Anaheim's throwing away a chunk of his value by not playing him in CF. (And he's be tied for 7th in VORP among AL CFs if he was still there... tied with superstar Laynce Nix.)

people like (or should like) that style of play because it's exciting or modest or genuine, or because they like seeing multi-millionaires on losing teams come to work for them everyday, and work hard. what the hell is wrong with any of that?

bp needs to learn when to shut their yaps and, if they're gonna pick fights (and they should), pick fights that matter.

JD, will you concede that Erstad is overpaid, especially given his value at 1B?

.286 is a nice EqAvg. Laynce Nix's is .301, and Mike Cameron, considered a slowly rebounding disappointment, .272.

i can't remember erstad's exact contract situation, but yes, i felt he was vastly overpaid. like i said, i was very much against the yankees acquiring him last year when he was mentioned in trade talks. but factoring in his typical defensive play, he's probably a much better player overall than he's usually given credit for (in CF, again).

obviously there's a bit of a double standard here that i think a lot of fans share: the most important thing for MY players to do is win. everything else is secondary (not that doesn't matter, but it is). but on the whole, being productive doesn't mean quite so much to me if you're really boring or half-assed or a cheater or a dick.

[sidenote: i did think it was odd, upon reflection, that neither ichiro or hideki made it when those two are widely regarded as two of the better fundamental players in baseball (esp ichiro).]

The Right Way or the White Way?

I was reading Peter Gammons' ESPN.com column yesterday afternoon when I noticed something that I think should be talked about. Gammons surveyed players, managers and GMs at the All-Star game last week, asking them to name the players in each league who play the game "the right way." Gammons says that means playing "with respect, intensity, precision and fierce competitiveness."

The results of the survey were, to me, quite interesting, not because of the players who were named, but because of a trait the majority of them share: They are white guys. Of the 18 players who received the most votes (one player at each position for both leagues), 12 of them are Caucasian. Taking it even further, of the 47 total players who received at least one vote, 30 are white.

According to data published last year in the Toronto Star, of the 750 players on Opening Day rosters in 2003, "54.4 percent of the players were white." And yet, in Gammons' survey, 67% of the top vote-getters were white and 64% of the overall vote-getters were white (and that is with counting someone like Derek Jeter, who has a white mother and a black father, as a minority).

This is not the first time something like this has bothered me. Almost exactly one year ago, Sports Illustrated ran a survey of 550 major league players and one of the questions asked was, "Who gets the most from the least talent?" David Eckstein received 62.2% of the votes and was followed by a bunch of white guys: Craig Counsell (6.7), Jamie Moyer (4.8), Joe McEwing (2.7) and Kevin Millar (1.7).

Here's a little of what I wrote about the player survey results at the time ...

One somewhat disturbing thing is that, of the top 11 players, nine of them are "white guys." Maybe this is a coincidence, but I doubt it. I think, for whatever reason, white guys who hustle and work hard are seen as "scrappier" than "black guys" or "Latino guys" who do the exact same thing.

Another question in the same survey was the opposite, "Who gets the least from the most talent?" This time, Ruben Rivera led the way with 29.3% of the vote, followed by Raul Mondesi (6.9), Frank Thomas (3.1), Mo Vaughn (3.1) and Adrian Beltre (2.8), all minorities.

Here's a little of what I wrote about those results ...

Whereas there were nine white guys in the top 11 in the previous category, there is a grand total of one white guy in this category. Does this mean anything? Maybe not, but the two sets of responses, when put together, strike me as a little strange.

Additionally, there is another question in the survey that asks, "Who's the best-dressed player?" and, of the top 10 guys, Derek Jeter is the only guy who could be considered a "white guy" and his father is black. To me, the answers to these three questions seem to suggest that the white guys are "scrappy" and the black guys and Latino guys are "lazy" and "stylish." Which, to me, is absurd and plays to all sorts of stereotypes.

Now Gammons' survey results are taking that concept a step further, saying that not only do white players "get more out of their talent," they play the game "the right way" a whole lot more often than black guys or Asian guys or Latino guys. I suppose I don't have a ton to add to this subject, other than to say I think that idea is preposterous and it bothers me a great deal how often it comes up -- in all sports, not just baseball -- whether we're talking about "scrappy" players or "gamers" or guys who "play the right way." Racism using special codes and lingo is still just racism.

You don't see J.D. Drew anywhere on that list. hmm.

xp

let me count the ways...how about dreamy blue eyes?

Less choke marks.

Except that fat kid from Moneyball!

greg luzinski? gorman thomas? come on, man!