Rolling NYY - BOS 2004 ALCS thread part 2: The Magic Shoe

The Red Sox largest problem w/ regards to scoring (as if it isn't totally obvious) is that both Damon & Bellhorn have gone 0-for-life in the series. Both Manny & Ortiz have (UNDERSTATEMENT ALERT) hit well in this series, but it don't mean slap if they're doing it with bases empty. Moving OC up to #2 didn't seem like a great idea @ first (because of his tendency to swing 1st & ask the ump where the pitch was later), but it's worked out great so far. I hadn't realized he was hitting .400 in the first 3 games of the series at the time, which fed my trepidation. Watching him work out that walk off of Sturtze in the 7th (in front of Manny's DP) after flailing on the first two pitches of the AB was astonishing.

"Seriously, when are they going to announce the death of Kenny Lofton? The Yankees don't have a deep or effective bench, but Lofton has value as a left-handed bat and pinch-runner. Over the past two nights, there have been countless points at which he should have been inserted into the game for Jorge Posada, for the execrable Tony Clark, or for Ruben Sierra. Torre hasn't taken advantage of any of these, and it's cost the Yankees dearly..."

Fuck them (FOX / MLB / The Stonecutters) if they allow this game to start only to see an interminable rain delay force both teams to go to their bullpens AGAIN.

1. ortiz mvp talk - the postseason doesn't count for the mvp award, and he didn't deserve it for his regular season.

2. schilling's "return from the dead" - the ankle has been bothering him all year and the 'killing blow' occured in september from what i've read. it was aggravated against anaheim, he pitched ok anyway, and it finally substantially effected his performace in game 1 of the alcs. they needed to brace it. they braced it. he's fine. i mean did anyone honestly suspect he wasn't going to pitch again in the first place?? there is nothing 'miraculaous' or 'heroic' about it, please let's stop affecting/being conned by pathetically fanciful journalists who don't think this series has enough natural drama to make game 6 interesting as is.

He's not coming back from a blister, geez.

the sox said if they couldn't get schilling to the point that they could ensure his health (remember that they have a 30 million dollar investment in it) & effectiveness (also pretty important) they would not pitch him. period. they now say he's fine. period. but we'll pretend they're lying about all this cuz it's convenient for ratings and our own gluttonous goddamn sentiments.

i mean i can understand interest in it from a technical aspect or something but jesus, HE IS FINE.

And if Schilling was that fine, he would have pitched last night and Pedro would have gone tonight, since that's how the rotation was set up.

accuwx.com says 0.06 inches of drizzle tonight.

anyway i'm not going to argue about this any more cuz we'll find out who's right in an hour. (maybe)

(as for alex in sf (et al), i love this idea you guys have that because i'm a yankees fan/because my team is losing everything i say is inherently abominably defective)(despite everything i've said so far being abominably accurate)

He looks good so far ... relying almost exclusively on his fastball in the first ... velocity was OK.

(Thanks for the rename, m0dz!)

Enjoy your alcohol-free world series, you disgusting bunch of savages!

hmmm, what's the student population of BU again?

Not white? Not welcome!

when was the last time you were at fenway?

where is the greatest bar anyway? jillian's is right across the street from fenway and the cask is just down the road but where the hell is the greatest bar? is it where mama kin used to be by any chance? what IS where mama kin was if it's not?

Who's planning on watching "The Comeback" on Netflix?

Didn't know about it, but I definitely will.

Me, just saw it was out today. The trailer with Varitek talking about not taking his mask off during the ARod punch was funny. Supposedly Nomar and Jeter wouldn’t participate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOD5u8krdDE

Sorry I should have warned about the Basic Instinct angle of that Varitek shot

I’m watching the first episode of this and even though I know what happened in 2003, I’m like WHAT THE FUCK WAS HE DOING SENDING PEDRO BACK OUT

Like you see this in modern games all the time, Alex Cora loves doing it, you can tell the game was going to come undone. 119 pitches! What the fuck was he thinking

https://i.postimg.cc/VkX5yjWD/f3ec6f13-5ff0-455a-876a-2ec377e8ea82.jpg

I have watched 2/3 episodes of this. Previously I watched 4 Days in October but this has a very different vibe.

- Kevin Millar is a yapper
- I don’t know how to feel about the whole Nomar thing, I totally understand his hurt but I also feel like he didn’t handle it the best AND they threw him under the bus a bit?
- I wish I loved anything as much as Pedro loved plunking
- After Wakefield gives up the walk of home run to Boone in the 2003 ALCS, there’s a bit where he’s in the dressing room after being consoled by teammates and someone says “It’s not your fault, Wake,” and he goes, sounding utterly defeated, “really?”
-Grady Little, my GOD

*GRADY LITTLE SUBSECTION STARTS HERE *

- on leaving Pedro out too long:
Netflix: did you pay attention to his pitch count?
GL: No

GL: if they would have held an election between me and Osama bin Laden I was not gonna win (on being bad and hated)

GL: I didn’t go by how he looked, I went by the stuff Pedro had

Sorry but John Henry asking Werner if they could fire Grady Little in the middle of the Pedro meltdown is kind of a serve

— Jake (@JakeWallinger) October 24, 2024

Oh yeah two last things:

- the signs for Pedro at Yankee stadium were fucked up, there was a shot of a DIE PEDRO sign!
- they were DHing Jeremy Giambi over David Ortíz for part of 2003 lmao lmao

Pretty crazy to remember that Clemens was still an intimidating pitcher in 2003

Also crazy to remember that Pedro/Clemens in 2003 was a rerun of the '99 ALCS, when Pedro beat Roger in Boston's only win. Which, incredibly, was just a few days removed from his legendary 6 innings of relief against Cleveland - 6 innings that he said changed his career - for the worse

I’ve never been in more pain once the plane took off. That’s when I knew I was really, really bad. I thought someone was stabbing me in the back. I got really scared, it was like having a knife going slowly through my back. I started screaming. The entire plane got quiet. The medical staff had to jump on me.

...

That was the game that actually developed the rest of the shoulder problems for me. That’s what got the 98 mph lowered to 90-whatever, whatever I was. That injury actually took a big chunk of my career. I did more damage to my shoulder because of that. I don’t regret it at all. I had a beautiful career and I was able to come back. I don’t regret it one bit. I’m extremely proud to have done it. I’d never suggest it to anybody with a bright future, but I’m so proud to have done it.

https://www.mlb.com/news/pedro-martinez-oral-history-game-5-1999-alds

Pretty crazy to remember that Clemens was still an intimidating pitcher in 2003

Knowing that Pedro shoulder story now, I’m tripling down on the “what the FUCK was Grady Little thinking leaving him out like that?” That’s Pedro Martinez, not Kyle Barraclough!

Kids these days dont know how rad pedro was

And he did all that in one of the most insane offensive eras.

omg this thread is an incredible time capsule. Totally pumped me up to watch this series

Came across the little icon on Netflix last night, will start watching over the weekend.

My memories of 2003 are very sharp because I'd just moved into my first house, didn't have cable, and watched both the Red Sox and the Cubs meltdowns at local bars. The 2004 WS finished so quickly, I actually don't remember many specifics.

Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth)
Posted: 21 October 2004 at 03:38:37
You should be a White Sox fan. 3 postseason APPEARANCES in my lifetime, 0 series wins.

My memories of 2003 are very sharp because I'd just moved into my first house, didn't have cable, and watched both the Red Sox and the Cubs meltdowns at local bars. The 2004 WS finished so quickly, I actually don't remember many specifics.

Moving to NY in 2001 and the 2003-2004 Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is what brought me back to baseball. My memory of 2004 is we spent the first night in our first house and our bed couldn't fit up the stairs so we slept on a futon mattress on our living room floor and listened to Game 1 of the WS on the radio because we didn't have cable yet.

I watched the first episode, gyac covered some of the key stuff but it really can't be overstated how bad Grady Little comes across in this. He can't remember what he said to Pedro after the seventh because it was twenty years ago? He can't remember what happened in the most important game, and most important moments of his career? In the game that completely defines him in the eyes of everybody? The guy had no real rebuttal to anything and comes off like a complete liar.

That game 5 ground rule double

FRAUDWAY PARK HAS NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH YOUR FLYBALL

I finished watching this last night. I really liked the second episode, I'd forgotten about so much of the regular season stuff. I think the third episode didn't quite capture the full-on insanity of the ALCS, but it was good.

Millar was entertaining throughout and is essentially the star of the doc, Schilling managed to stop being crazy for a day and really added a lot, Epstein and Hoyer were funny and honest, Ortiz didn't say a lot but is still fun to listen to. It's interesting that only Torre, Clemens, and Sheffield were there to present the Yankees' side of things, but they said nothing of substance. When did they start to panic? Why couldn't Jeter man up and talk on camera about how it felt to get reverse swept by his biggest rivals?

Watched the first episode last night. No Manny interviews yet, so I assume he declined to participate. Joe Torre has definitely aged since I last saw him. I could probably do with about 22% less Millar, but maybe I'll warm up to him. I was waiting to hear at least brief mention of one person, but it never came--I probably don't have to say who that is.

I'm about to go where nobody has ever gone before--I'd need to double-check, so please, don't get after me too aggressively here! A very half-hearted defense of Little: like my memories of the inning itself, it felt like the only really hard-hit ball in that infamous sequence was Jeter's double (which was almost caught). Obviously, Pedro should have been taken out immediately after that, and probably shouldn't have even started the inning.

The following people refused to participate:

- Manny
- Nomar
- Arod
- Jeter

Surprising amount of former Yankees though

Who is the person you mean clemenza?

Btw Schilling looks genuinely awful

I have to give you a trigger warning, gyac--are you sure you want me to speak his name?

In 2003, James was hired by a former reader, John Henry, the new owner of the Boston Red Sox.

That should be in quotes--from Wikipedia.

Also kept waiting for the Greek God of Greek Gods, but I see now he didn't join the team till 2004.

lol oh! I guess they had Billy Beane in there more than enough to cover that ground.

I thought it was good they covered so much of the regular series. These WS teams you see become legendary as soon as they win but watching the series they went through dead stretches like literally any other team. And the AL East teams faced each other a lot more than than they do now. Means there was always something happening.

That was one of two good John Henry lines

Interviewer, offscreen: You popped champagne with Billy, did you do that for Theo?
JH: no.

Enjoyed Epstein dropping f-bombs left and right.

Theo was unbelievably young. He’s still not even fifty! I enjoyed the mention of his twin asking him “What the fuck are you doing?” at one point.

(His twin is not identical, or Theo might never have needed the gorilla suit)

https://www.ftbnl.org/team

Got halfway through E2 yesterday, will finish tonight. I have to admit: I have no recollection at all of all that A-Rod/Nomar drama, or that two trades had actually been completed that were overturned.