Bill James' new take on 'clutch' etc. (Salon)

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
As a SABR member I get the Baseball Research Journal, and the James article obv provides a greater understanding than Kaufman's summary of it, but anyway...


King Kaufman's Sports Daily
Salon.com

Bill James rocks bar stools across the land by changing his stance on a central question of sabermetrics: Is clutch hitting a skill?

- - - - - - - - - - - -


Bill James says clutch hitters just might exist after all.

This might not sound like a big deal, but what Copernicus was to astronomy, Bill James is to sabermetrics -- the application of the scientific method to baseball -- and the existence of the ability to hit in the clutch is one of the flash points in the war between the sabermetric crowd and traditionalists. It's a big deal. It's Copernicus saying, "Wait a second. Maybe the sun isn't in the middle."

Statheads, including James, have long argued that while there are obviously clutch hits, there's no such thing as a clutch hitter, someone who demonstrates the repeated ability to come through when the chips are down, the game is on the line, the season is in the balance, however you want to put it -- and we'll get back to that, how you define "clutch."

For something to be an ability, James writes, it has to be repeatable, otherwise it's just luck, or a random event. That's inarguable. Bill Mazeroski hit just about the most clutchiest clutch home run of all time to win the 1960 World Series, but that was just one great swing. It didn't mean he was any more likely than anyone else of his modest hitting ability to come through in the clutch in 1961 or '63 or '68.

He got a big clutch hit, and he certainly got some others, but he wasn't necessarily a clutch hitter, any more than I'm a great comedian because I've occasionally made a group of people laugh. There has never been any statistical evidence that any player has the ability to be clutch, that over time he consistently performs above expectations in crucial situations.

This flies in the face of what baseball people have known in their bones since a ball caught on one bounce was an out: Some guys are just clutch. Reggie Jackson, Mr. October. And the corollary: Some guys are just not clutch. They're chokers. The most famous case in this category was Barry Bonds until, whoops, he had a huge postseason in 2002.

Nothing can make a sabermetric type roll his eyes like hearing that some hobo with a .780 OPS is better than this .975 All-Star over here because he's great in the clutch, or the All-Star is lousy in the clutch. And nothing can make a traditionalist roll his eyes like seeing a sabermetrician roll his eyes at such a statement.

That's why it's so shocking to see James' article, "Underestimating the Fog," in the Baseball Research Journal No. 33, the annual publication of the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR), the group from which sabermetrics takes its name.

What's really shocking to me is that James, who is very smart, seems to agree with me, about whom the smarts jury is out. He makes a point that's strikingly similar to one I've been making for years: The absence of stats that prove clutch hitting ability exists doesn't mean clutch hitting ability doesn't exist. It might just mean nobody's come up with the stat yet. Nobody's figured out how to measure "clutch."

And let me emphasize the word "might." James isn't arguing that clutch hitting ability does exist, only that we can't rule it out, as he and others have long done. He and I differ here. Though I tend to favor the sabermetric way of looking at the world, I line up with the traditionalists in believing that there is such a thing as clutch hitters. There's no other way to describe this point of view than saying it's religious. I can't prove it. I simply believe it.

The titular "Fog" comes from the metaphor James uses: "In a sense it is like this: A sentry is looking through a fog, trying to see if there is an invading army out there, somewhere through the fog. He looks for a long time, and he can't see any invaders, so he goes and gets a really, really bright light to shine into the fog. Still doesn't see anything."

The sentry, James writes, reports back that the coast is clear, "but the problem is, he has underestimated the density of the fog." That's where baseball is with the clutch hitting question, and several others he discusses, such as whether there is such a thing as a pitcher's ability to win games, distinct from his ability to prevent runs.

"We're trying to see if there's an army out there, and we have confident reports that the coast is clear -- but we may have underestimated the density of the fog," he writes. "The randomness of the data is the fog."

Clutch hitting ability is hard to measure because it's hard to define "clutch." Late and close, a metric sometimes used, is hopelessly vague, and anyway may not cover the issue. Can't a two-out, bases empty at-bat in a scoreless first inning be clutch if you know your starter pitches much better with a lead? Can the game be on the line in the fourth inning?

Can a situation be clutch in May? Or does clutch come up only in the second half of the season? Only in September and October? OK, but then does May count if it's Red Sox-Yankees? Is a contract year one long clutch situation? Is every postseason at-bat clutch, or just postseason at-bats with the game on the line? If a second-inning hit turns out to be the game-winner, can we call it clutch in hindsight?

And so on.

And what about clutch pitching or clutch fielding, which can have an effect on clutch hitting? And how many clutch situations are there in a year, and how many does any one hitter get a chance at? There may not ever be a player who gets enough clutch chances for the stats to be meaningful.

James' writing is something you have to sort of immerse yourself in. He's immensely entertaining, even if you aren't mathematically inclined, as I'm not, and even if you disagree with him, as I often do. But he's not punchy. He doesn't deal in sound bites and money quotes, so it's hard to pull out a sentence or two that gives the essence of what he's saying. But here's the closest thing:

"We ran astray because we have been assuming that random data is proof of nothingness, when in reality random data proves nothing," James writes of his own and others' studies. He cites a famous article about clutch hitting by Dick Cramer. "Cramer argued, 'I did an analysis which should have identified clutch hitters, if clutch hitting exists. I got random data; therefore, clutch hitters don't exist.'"

James pronounces himself guilty of the same thing, many times. But: "Random data proves nothing -- and it cannot be used as proof of nothingness. Why? Because whenever you do a study, if your study completely fails, you will get random data. Therefore, when you get random data, all you may conclude is that your study has failed."

So does clutch hitting ability exist? I am a believer. James, long a clutch atheist, is newly agnostic. Maybe his gig as a senior baseball operations advisor for the Red Sox has had an influence on him. Maybe he's been rubbing shoulders with David Ortiz, who Red Sox Nation believes is the very god of clutchness. I don't know.

But it's a major change in the landscape of one of my favorite bar-stool subjects, and it's a testament to James' ability as a thinker to display such open-mindedness and curiosity about an argument that's he's been playing a prominent role in for decades.

The Baseball Research Journal is available through University of Nebraska Press on its Web site or at 1-800-755-1105.

http://www.sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,1071,40

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

Ticky-tacky kvetch about an otherwise reasonably fine article, but given how James' argument is summarized, leading off w/ this simile ...

"It's Copernicus saying, 'Wait a second. Maybe the sun isn't in the middle.'"

... is just a smidge sketchy. ("we revolve around the sun" = "getting on-base is the most important thing in baseball", yes?) But this is me being a TOTAL pissant.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

I actually thought the 2000 article by some other guy linked from the letters page the next day on "choking" was a lot more interesting.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...
You can download a PDF of the James article here:

http://sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,1251,40

I think I finally grok the "noise" thing (has Alan Schwarz been hired away from the Times?):


KEEPING SCORE
Baseball's Leading Man of Math Has Some Second Thoughts About the Numbers

By DAVID LEONHARDT

ith the score tied, the bases loaded and a division title at stake, Steve Finley walked to the Dodger Stadium batter's box in the ninth inning last October with a grin. "I knew the game was over," he said afterward. On the second pitch, he sent the ball flying through the late-afternoon California sunshine toward the bleachers, and the Dodgers had beaten the Giants.

The grand slam seemed a proper season's capstone for Finley, a veteran outfielder whom the Dodgers had acquired from Arizona before the trade deadline.

When games were on the line in 2004, he did his best hitting.

What you think this says about Finley, and about what he is likely to do for the Angels this season, offers a good litmus test of your place in baseball's ideological universe.

If you believe his 2004 heroics prove him to be a clutch hitter, you belong to the majority party. Call yourself a traditionalist, and know that most managers and players stand with you.

If you think Finley is no more likely to be a big-game performer this year than Alex Rodriguez - who tended to melt in the clutch last year - consider yourself a Jamesian. You share the view of many statistics lovers who have been inspired by the writings of Bill James. You consider clutch hitters to be the Loch Ness monsters of baseball, because you know that players who outdo themselves in the clutch one season rarely repeat the performances during the next.

The debate had not changed much for years. Then Bill James himself announced that he was thinking of switching parties.

In an essay published this winter - in something called The Baseball Research Journal, a Jamesian outlet if ever there was one - he argued that clutch hitters might indeed walk the earth. Not only that, but he also proceeded to challenge a handful of other numbers-based doctrines, including the belief that hot and cold streaks do not exist.

James, who made his name writing the "Baseball Abstract" books and currently advises the Red Sox, said he no longer had faith in the numbers he and others long used to make their arguments about clutch hitting and the like.

The statistics now seem far too noisy to him - based on too little data - to trump ideas with an inherent ring of truth to them.

"I was wrong about something, wrong about something important, for a long time," James said by e-mail last week. "And since I had contributed heavily to creating the problem, I realized that I had to do what I could to address it."

The central idea behind much baseball analysis is persistence.

Hitting for average, hitting for power, drawing walks, striking out batters and stealing bases are all obvious skills because the players who do them well one year tend to do them well again the next.

But if there is no pattern from one season to another, Jamesians argue, there is probably no underlying skill.

Steve Finley, as it happened, hit worse with runners in scoring position during 2003 than he did when nobody was on base. Did that make him a choker? Or did 2004 make him clutch?

Neither, statistics mavens say. He is just a good hitter who sometimes succeeds in big situations and sometimes fails. You do not get one head and one tail every time you flip a coin twice, and Finley will not replicate his career statistics in every given situation.

There seems to be no persistence, in other words, to clutch hitting. "Here today, gone tomorrow," James wrote in the essay. The same can be said of a handful of other traditionalist chestnuts, like streakiness. The problem, James now says, is that his old argument rested on a shaky stack of statistics.

Imagine if a doctor checked for breathing problems once a week by placing a stethoscope over a patient's winter coat and listening for changes. Every exam would be flawed - filled with noise, as statisticians say - because of the coat. But the comparison of one exam with another would be even worse, with any small differences between them overwhelmed by uncertainty.

In baseball, luck and randomness - weather, ballpark dimensions, the pitcher - play the role of the winter coat. And the search for clutch hitters involves not just one comparison that compounds the statistical noise. It has two: the differential between a player's normal and clutch batting averages and the difference between this differential across seasons.

This messiness could disguise any clutch hitting.

"We ran astray because we have been assuming that random data is proof of nothingness," James wrote, "when in reality random data proves nothing." (The essay, "Underestimating the Fog," is available at sabr.org.)

But the richest thing about James's mea culpa may be the conclusion worth drawing from it. Just as common sense says that some people handle pressure better than others, it seems likely that these differences are not large among major leaguers.

True chokers will flame out well before reaching the big leagues. Players who discover an edge in clutch situations, meanwhile, will almost certainly try to use it at other times, too.

If it exists, clutchness probably creates only a few extra hits for a batter over the course of a season, despite announcers who claim to see it in every game.

So James's old view might have had the rare distinction of being wrong and still being closer to the truth than the other side's argument.


Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 April 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

Isn't this basically the same thing that James was always saying -- not that clutch hitters don't exist, just that the evidence for their existence was inconclusive?

rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:29 (twenty years ago)

He was essentially saying it provably didn't exist in the '80s and '90s, I think.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 April 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

"True chokers will flame out well before reaching the big leagues."

Note: this is pretty demonstratably false in other sports (see: tennis, for example) so I see no reason why this would be necessarily true in baseball.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

i just took "true chokers" to mean players that weren't major league calibre.

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but as tennis clearly indicates certain circumstances can create bizarre performance aberrations in people who are otherwise top calibre players (hello Novotna.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

Ah, reliable Flat Earth Alex! Because baseball is an everyday sport (certainly in the minors), you wouldn't be able to hide if you were a "true choker." I can't address the comparison to other sports, cuz as Casey said "I am not going to speak of any other sport."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

Whatever. I think choking exists. I don't necessarily think that some players are "clutch", but it is undeniable that everyday athletes (and tennis is pretty close to an every day sport) under certain pressures can completely lose it (and in some cases never regain it or just perpetually lose it when faced with similar pressures.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

OK -- examples?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

I'm tempted to think "choking" is just a matter of convenience and context (which has DEFINITELY been stated before). For instance, a team starting off the season 4-10 = OMG WHAT IS GOING WRONG? Same team doing this in mid-August = "oh, it's just a slump". See also: Barry Bonds being a storied "choke artist" in the postseason, until he, um, stopped choking in 2002 v. Derek Jeter "coming through in the clutch" last year against the Red Sox.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

Rick Ankiel!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

Steve Sax!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

Chuck Knoblauch!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

Anyway here is the article which Kaufman linked to in the letters page on choking.

http://www.gladwell.com/2000/2000_08_21_a_choking.htm

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

choking is a lot more readily explained within the realm of human experience than clutchness, which often begs more questions than it answers. its easy for me to understand why a choker chokes (and hence, that chokers exist) because pressure is a pretty relatable experience, but i have a harder time understanding/explaining clutch players, especially in the context of hitting, which doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that you should be able to suddenly and drastically improve with a flick of a mental switch. but assuming that some can, what's fundamentally different about an risp/late-innings sitch that enables them to hit the ball better? and is that mental adjustment so draining or in such short supply that it can't be made all the time? its a much harder thing to reconcile.

(xposts)

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

why does a-rod suck in risp situations? i dunno but i love watching it.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

stencil OTM
but I still miss John Dahlem,
angry rebuttals

Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/arodslap_BDD_mh.jpg

rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

omg thats amazing. i cant believe ive never seen it.

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

HAHAHA

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

What're Slap-Rod's year-to-year numbers with RISP?

Ankiel, Sax and Knoblauch are all examples of guys who had 'yips' THROUGHOUT THE SEASON, not partic in 'clutch' circumstances. (true that Ankiel's problem started in the playoffs, but it persisted -- seems you'd have a start on a case for him if he'd returned to normal the next spring.)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

I never said anything about clutch circumstances or returning to normal, Morb-o. I simply said that the every day play minor leagues is no guarantee that people will not spectacularly collapse under pressure later on.

Puny Human in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

The clutch question is in many ways a quality-of-opposition question -- "clutch" situations are most likely to occur when a hitter is facing a pitcher from a good team with a similar goal, like moving in the standings, securing a division title, winning a playoff game, etc. Not sure if there's any good way to untangle that statistically though.

rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

I just read James' article, and it's just basic statistical analysis. Any first year university student taking physics or chemistry knows this stuff. In fact, they know it better than James does, because he says that when adding or subtracting two statistics that have a 30% error (due to luck), the result can have an error of as much as 60%. This is misleading. The actual statistical variation should be 42%, because such errors add in quadrature. It's possible that the actual error is 60%, but the probability is low for the given distibution of data (if you know anything about Gaussian statistics, then this is trivial for you, if you don't just trust me).

The whole issue is one of sample sizes. Essentially, James is saying that they thought they were using sufficient sample sizes, but in actual fact he now believes they are too small. "There's no such thing as a clutch hitter" = "in a given situation, a hitter's performance will reflect his career numbers". So in that sense, you want Jeter at the plate instead of Womack, because Jeter's career OPS is 850, whereas Womack's is 680.

The more at-bats a guy has, the more sure we are of his abilities. So if his OPS by year goes 850, 760, 890, 1010, 870, 860, 880, it becomes obvious that the 2nd and 4th years were abherrations, and his "true" ability lies in the ~850-880 range.

Now, the random variation in a given measurement goes as the square root of N, where N is the number of trials. The so "relative error", so to speak, is R = sqrt(N)/N = 1/sqrt(N). So, as N grows, the uncertainty in a measured quantity associated with N becomes smaller. However, 1/sqrt(N) is a very slowly increasing function for large N. For instance, we know that over 100 plate appearances, there can be a lot of random fluctuation. For N = 100, R = 0.100.

So if you take a larger sample size of 500 plate appearances, then R = 0.044, a big improvement. But if we take five times *more* PA's, N = 2500, then R = 0.020. We've run into diminishing returns -- there's a much more significant reduction in error when going from 100 to 500 PA's then there is in going from 500 to 2500 PA's.

To summarize:

1. in order to minimize a given random error, one MUST use larger sample sizes

2. it may not be possible to obtain sufficiently large and appropriate sample sizes when applying these methods to some of the problems (numbered 1 through 9) discussed in James' article.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 25 April 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

2005:

Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP
RISP W/TWO OUT 13 13 1 2 0 0 0 3 1 3 0 0 .214 .154 .154 2 0 0 0 0 0
RUNNERS ON 19 53 13 13 3 0 2 13 2 10 2 2 .273 .415 .245 22 0 0 0 0 1
BASES EMPTY 17 29 2 10 2 0 2 2 4 7 0 0 .424 .621 .345 18 0 0 0 0 0
BASES LOADED 5 3 1 1 1 0 0 3 1 0 0 0 .500 .667 .333 2 0 0 0 0 0
LATE INNING PRESS 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 0 .167 .000 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0
LIP-RUNNERS ON 5 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 .200 .000 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0
WITH NO OUTS 16 29 5 7 2 0 2 5 2 8 1 0 .290 .517 .241 15 0 0 0 0 0

2004:

RISP 136 157 79 39 4 1 8 66 24 33 10 2 .346 .439 .248 69 7 0 3 6 8
RISP W/TWO OUT 81 68 22 14 3 1 4 23 9 17 2 0 .308 .456 .206 31 0 0 1 1 0
RUNNERS ON 152 290 94 86 9 1 18 88 38 62 28 4 .378 .521 .297 151 7 0 4 6 18
BASES EMPTY 152 311 18 86 15 1 18 18 42 69 0 0 .373 .505 .277 157 0 0 6 0 0

2003:

RISP 132 145 75 40 8 2 8 63 26 30 2 0 .380 .524 .276 76 6 0 2 10 6
Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP
RUNNERS ON 155 272 96 74 12 4 19 90 42 58 17 3 .376 .555 .272 151 6 0 7 10 16
BASES EMPTY 156 335 28 107 18 2 28 28 45 68 0 0 .412 .636 .319 213 0 0 8 0 0
BASES LOADED 35 7 15 4 1 0 1 13 0 0 0 0 .500 1.143 .571 8 1 0 0 0 0
LATE INNING PRESS 60 63 16 18 2 2 9 22 11 17 2 1 .392 .810 .286 51 0 0 0 1 1
LIP-RUNNERS ON 42 32 12 9 1 2 5 18 3 6 2 1 .343 .906 .281 29 0 0 0 1 1
WITH NO OUTS 130 178 32 52 9 1 14 27 29 31 2 0 .395 .590 .292 105 4 0 4 0 5
WITH ONE OUT 135 191 43 51 7 3 13 42 29 50 4 2 .374 .539 .267 103 2 0 5 3 11

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

That's unreadable.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

i kno.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

It's sort of fixed now.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 25 April 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

I will trust MIR, as he lost me with "quadrature."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

My cat's breath smells like catfood.

Organized Crime (Leee), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 14:31 (twenty years ago)

Adding in quadrature means that you square the things you are adding, sum them and then take the square root.

ojitarian (ojitarian), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 01:36 (twenty years ago)

and the point of that is? just curious, i never took no statistics class.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 04:37 (twenty years ago)

I used TEH POWER OV MATH to dispute James' reasoning about the 60% error. Like I said, if you know stats, then it's a trivial calculation, and if you don't, don't worry about it, the end result is the the 42% number I cited.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 05:06 (twenty years ago)

players do choke, and players go on streaks.

also, novotna simply tanks games sometimes, like on purpose.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 05:43 (twenty years ago)

engrish, mir?

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 07:53 (twenty years ago)

>players do choke, and players go on streaks.

Having a "bad streak" is not the same as choking. And you can't hypothesize on the reasons for failing absent consistent evidence of persistent situational failure. Is that it, Glinda?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 12:16 (twenty years ago)


stencil OTM
but I still miss John Dahlem,
angry rebuttals

I miss him too, much as he irritated me at times (in a good way), he was a real fan. Maybe he'll come back when he feels better.

All of the time, and none of the art (dymaxia), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

are there any yankees fans left here now?

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

seven years pass...

Neyer discussed BJ's recent assertion that groundball pitchers are overrated:

http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/3/21/4132110/groundball-pitchers-analysis-projecting-injuries

Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 March 2013 12:33 (twelve years ago)

interesting. i guess i always kind of read the stats-based preference for ground-ball pitchers as almost assuming the comparison was between two marginal pitchers, one of whom had ground-ball tendencies and one of whom had fly-ball tendencies. like if you're looking for a 4th starter there might be a more readily available case for the ground-ball pitcher.

call all destroyer, Friday, 22 March 2013 13:21 (twelve years ago)

I've got something in common with Neyer: when I quote James from his site, I also get rid of his weird practice of separating sentences with three spaces.

clemenza, Friday, 22 March 2013 14:34 (twelve years ago)

two months pass...

Are 1,000 plate appearances enough of a sample to draw any conclusions about a specific player?

http://www.highheatstats.com/2013/06/robby-canos-rispy-business/#more-13753

clemenza, Sunday, 16 June 2013 00:38 (twelve years ago)

I'd like to see these same numbers on Jay Bruce, as that seems to be the biggest local knock on him. Mind you this is a day after he hits a walk off and also hit a walk off dinger to clench the division a couple years ago.

earlnash, Sunday, 16 June 2013 01:12 (twelve years ago)

Bruce has 859 plate appearances with RISP, just short of the 1,000 needed to qualify for the study I linked to, but here's where he's at:

Career BA = .258
RISP BA = .250

96.9%--that'd put him tied for 18th on the post-1961 list.

His OBP goes up with RISP (.330-->.359), his SLG goes down (.483--.438).

I'd like to see the overall totals for all players for some context.

clemenza, Sunday, 16 June 2013 13:45 (twelve years ago)

one month passes...

I've been scanning some old Radio On stuff; here's a long thing I wrote on Joe Carter in 1994.

http://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7SjjGanCdBAZHNCbHFoNGZ0NHM/edit?usp=sharing

If you can look past the HOF prediction--which, in 1994, seemed reasonable (James thought he'd be elected too)--I think it holds up well. The funny thing is, Carter did go on to two more 100-RBI seasons, one where he was fairly mediocre ('96) and another was he was plain lousy ('97). But by the time he appeared on the HOF ballot, none of that mattered at all.

clemenza, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 19:17 (twelve years ago)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7SjjGanCdBATV9hUUVwZzRUdjQ/edit?usp=sharing

Sorry--got rid of a name in there.

clemenza, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 19:30 (twelve years ago)

two months pass...

Free article on postseason experience as a predictive factor:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22039

eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 14 October 2013 14:33 (eleven years ago)

We've discussed this before: how much weight (if any) should be given to post-season performance in HOF voting?

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/41578/should-postseason-matter-in-hof-voting

Some interesting matched pairs--never realized how close Schilling and Brown were in ERA/W-L.

clemenza, Monday, 21 October 2013 17:19 (eleven years ago)

What I said before (in connection to Billy Wagner, I think): should not be counted as a negative, worth giving a little consideration to when talking about a close call (e.g., if you think Beltran will be a close call--some people feel he should go in regardless).

clemenza, Monday, 21 October 2013 17:24 (eleven years ago)

(And only then in a relatively large sample size.)

clemenza, Monday, 21 October 2013 17:25 (eleven years ago)

three months pass...

James has been running a series all week on big-game pitchers--primarily based on the regular season, with a little weight given in the final rankings to postseason play. The whole thing was triggered by, who else, Jack Morris.

The first couple of posts defined a big game according to Big Game Scores, the components of which are fairly straightforward, although the math isn't...I glazed over a bit. Games are either defined as Big or not big--there's no sliding scale.

Today, in part seven, he listed his Top 11 since 1952:

1. Roy Oswalt
2. Bob Gibson
3. Randy Johnson
4. Don Sutton
5. John Smoltz
6. Johan Santana
7. Andy Pettitte
8. Ron Guidry
9. Whitey Ford
10. Bruce Kison
11. Mike Mussina

Jim Kaat got a whole post to himself--he just missed the top of the list, contrary to a common perception that he wasn't good in big games. (James seems to be advocating for Kaat's HOF case being taken up again by the Veteran's Committee.)

Morris is being saved for the 10th post.

But what happens in Big Games is important whether or not it is indicative of an underlying skill. Bill Mazeroski’s home run in the 1960 World Series is a big deal, whether or not it had anything to do with Mazeroski’s ability as a hitter. Madison Bumgarner pitching 8 shutout innings in the 2010 World Series and 7 shutout innings in the 2012 World Series is important, whether or not it has anything to do with Bumgarner’s character, his underlying skills, or the allegation that he has a girl’s first name and is a bad gardener.

At risk of offending 70% of you to illustrate the point...Lee Harvey Oswald is historically important, whether or not he was a good shot with a rifle. Underlying skills are not always the issue; sometimes the issue is simply what he did. Underlying skills are important in the winter, when you are putting together next year’s team--but when you are looking back at last year’s team, what matters is performance, not ability.

clemenza, Sunday, 26 January 2014 22:11 (eleven years ago)

I did not expect Oswalt at #1. Can you explain his methodology a bit more? His postseason record is nothing special, so I guess he gets a lot of credit for winning games for the '04-'05 Astros and the '10 Phillies?

NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 27 January 2014 09:15 (eleven years ago)

I got lost on the methodology:

I intended for this to work out so that we could use the SQUARE of the Virtual Elimination Percentage, rather than raising it to the power 1.80, but...raising it to the square turned out to be just too damned tolerant, too lenient. (Thanks, Obama.) Using the square, rather than the power 1.80, a team was not virtually eliminated if they were 77-63 when another team was 90-50. My judgment is that, in that situation, you ARE virtually eliminated. 77-63 against 90-50...you’re absolutely not winning.

Anyway, the list is based almost exclusively on regular-season big games, with a small adjustment in the final rankings for postseason. In regular-season big games, as determined by James, Oswalt was 46-12. Not sure of his ERA...he usually provides that, but for some reason he doesn't for Oswalt. But Gibson, the #2, was 36-14/2.26, so I assume Oswalt's ERA was impressive too.

clemenza, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:56 (eleven years ago)

Bruce Kison!

eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:03 (eleven years ago)

Was actually watching when he pitched his great relief game in the '71 Series: 6.1 IP, 1 hit, 3 K, 0 BB.

clemenza, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:49 (eleven years ago)

The culmination of the whole series; it's long, but I'll excerpt the beginning and end:

OK, we have come, at last, back to the can opener which opened this particular can of worms, which is the question: Was Jack Morris, in fact, a Big Game Pitcher?

He was not.

He had the one brilliant post-season, of course, but other than that one three-week period he absolutely was not; it is not questionable, it is not debatable, it is not unclear. It does not seem likely that the conclusion could be altered by studying the question in a different way. Jack Morris did not have a great or even good record in Big Games, and the people who believe that he did believe that because they believe that, but not because there is any actual evidence for it.

In the games that our system has designated as regular season Big Games, Jack Morris made 46 starts, won 18 games, lost 19, 3.79 ERA. His teams were 24-22.

If you use a higher standard for what is a "Big Game", his record gets worse; it goes down to 10-14, although his ERA improves to 3.51. His teams won 14 of his Biggest Game Starts, lost 15...

If you want to advocate for a pitcher being in the Hall of Fame based on his performance in Big Games, advocate for Ron Guidry, or Jim Kaat, or Mickey Lolich, or Mike Mussina.

clemenza, Thursday, 30 January 2014 02:06 (eleven years ago)

Yeah, but if your standard is "Game 7 of the WS" then he was the best Big Game pitcher of all time. Where's that HOF plaque?

Sure, he got destroyed in the '92 postseason (losing every game he pitched) but that was only because he knew the Jays had three other really good starters so he didn't have to be as great. Just like he pitched to the score, he pitched to the team's abilities! He sucked because was saving his best stuff for the '91 WS, when he knew the team needed him most (he traveled back in time for it).

NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 30 January 2014 12:16 (eleven years ago)

he had his time before that time, is what you're saying?!

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 30 January 2014 17:06 (eleven years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.