the 2005 PHILLIES love/hate thread

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Get stoked about Gavin Floyd! Curse Ed Wade! Wonder what the heck will happen with Ryan Howard!
plus:
Middle-relief Meltdowns! Pat Burrell!

― the leglo (the leglo), Monday, 11 April 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

for real, i was pissed after the phils blew 3 straight games, but now i feel oddly confident after the roughing up of the cardinals this weekend.

― the leglo (the leglo), Monday, 11 April 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

they'll be lucky to come out of this week at .500. the fish are looking killer so far.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 11 April 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

FREE CHASE!

― mattbot (mattbot), Monday, 11 April 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

LoDuca's moxie can only take them so far, tho. Also, opposing pitchers need to stop confusing Juan Encarnacion w/ a pitcher that can't handle mid-level heat. (Assuming JE salami'd - twice! - on crappy fastballs & not anti-break breaking balls.)

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 11 April 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

i've seen most of their games so far, and the lineup has been weak, but they'll catch on. their pitching is absolutely fierce and, most strikingly, their defense is tremendous. in beckett's gem yesterday, the nats hit several balls hard, but it seemed like the defense was always waiting for it. very impressive.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 11 April 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

although, phils rotation has looked surprisingly tough the opening week...even meyers & wolf!

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Monday, 11 April 2005 17:25 (twenty years ago)

Throw the Fish back, two world titles is enough! And The ESPN Ex-2B 'Analyst' Who Shall Not Be Named seems to think McKeon is gonna get 9 innings out of those fragile hosses regularly?

Pat Burrell is truly going commando, underwear-free or not.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 11 April 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

another homer for burrell. really...who switched out his flaxseed oil for the clear?

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

Bill Conlin has to be dusting off a story using Pat Burrell in place of Scott Rolen and crediting Burrell's success to getting rid of Larry Bowa.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 02:27 (twenty years ago)

so, d-train finishes up the cg shutout, holding the 'potent' phillies lineup to 3 hits and 1 walk. sweet.

― the leglo (the leglo), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

a scornful edward g. robinson to pat burrell: "where's your messiah NOW?!"

*wah*

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

hi -- this is gonna be a LONG season :-(

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 April 2005 01:46 (twenty years ago)

thank god for harry kallas!

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Monday, 18 April 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

As if I didn't think this stadium was Coors-Lite last year (JT Snow 3 HRs in one game, Randy Wolf going deep 2x in a game):

Today NYM @ PHI: 9 HRs through 4 innings.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 April 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

thome hit a homer!

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

PARDON MY FRENCH

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

what on earth does your french have to w/ jim thome?

(thank you, thank you...i'll be here all week, folks)

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

*golf clap*

How about an over/under on when John Kruk nominates John Leiber (4-0! - hey Wilbon!) as the front runner for the NL Cy Young award?

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

soon, dr...soon.

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 21 April 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

woo, chase utley pinch hit grand slam in the bottom of the 8th! that was a fun one...

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 2 June 2005 01:22 (twenty years ago)

meh... what's up with the homer umps in philly (lofton's trap ruled a catch, feliz's awesome grab ruled a hit)? i'd feel better about the loss if it wasn't for such BS calls (even the Phils booth got the calls right).

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 2 June 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

hmm. i had to listen to it on the radio here, so i didn't get to witness the shady calls. the radio broadcasters said the feliz grab was "too close to tell" and "the only one here with a good enough view to make the call was on the field."

still... chase utley.

i'm going to the game tonight, and will be rooting for the sweep to get the phils to .500. hopefully it will be on legit calls...

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 2 June 2005 15:04 (twenty years ago)

Uh, I'll be in Philly sometime between the 13th-17th, if anyone fancies catching a game.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 2 June 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

NB. I know all-fuck about baseball (I'm English), but I've been going to see the Jays in TO recently with friends, and am starting to really enjoy it, even tho' must of the time I don't know what the fuck is going on.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 2 June 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

It's like rounders but it's actually AWESOME!!!

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 2 June 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

teh sweep!

― the leglo (the leglo), Friday, 3 June 2005 12:16 (twenty years ago)

http://www.boners.com/content/792762.1.jpg

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Sunday, 5 June 2005 03:13 (twenty years ago)

that's an amazing photo.

tonight i witnessed my first doubleheader. my dad gets sweet tickets (4th row back from the end of the phils dugout) once a year, and we were scheduled to go tonight. last night got rained out, and they moved it to this afternoon, and our tickets got us the whole shebang. just under 6 hours of baseball. and the phils won them both. bobby abreu is on fire. and polanco had two homers in the second game. it pretty much ruled.

― the leglo (the leglo), Sunday, 5 June 2005 03:29 (twenty years ago)

placido polanco for ugueth urbina and ramon martinez

― the leglo (the leglo), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

urbina as a set-up man is kind of nice, and hopefully means less innings for some of the more blow-up prone middle relievers.
and i suspect it means urbina will close next year and wagner will either retire or get more money somewhere else.

ramon martinez seems like a bench warmer.

and it frees chase...

― the leglo (the leglo), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

yes, FREED CHASE!

urbina could also step in when wagner gets hurt again. it seems like outside of madson, the bullpen got old real quick. have they released tim worrell yet?

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

after padilla gives up a taco, a walk and a fletcher to start the game: "some nights the ball really carries, and then there's nights like tonight."

also, he just gave up two more walks. no outs yet. awesome.

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)

A fletcher?

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

Well whatever it is he can prolly give up a few more of 'em - his boys, in 5 at bats, just hit 3 home runs!

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

"fletcher" refers to the home run name thread

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 9 June 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)

Ah. Thank you.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 9 June 2005 23:01 (twenty years ago)

So wait a sec - if "fletcher" is a homer, then what's a "taco"?

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 10 June 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

"taco" = "homer" -- this has long since been decided

"fletcher" can mean the same or different, but "taco"'s meaning is immutable.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 10 June 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

actually, maybe a fletcher can be a homer by a less than adequate player. e.g.: astacio served up tacos to burrell, but a fletcher to todd pratt.

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:56 (twenty years ago)

There ya go!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 10 June 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

YES!

― the leglo (the leglo), Friday, 10 June 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

Randy Wolf likely gone for the season.

:-(

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

Man.

Does this mean Madson gets promoted to the rotation, or is one of them there pitching prospect studs coming up to strut some stuff?

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

he best not! he is my holds output.

i dunno...maybe floyd gets another shot?

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

So will the Phils ever get Thome and Burrell both hitting well at the same time?

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 16 June 2005 03:26 (twenty years ago)

they are all talking about using robinson tejeda, at least until he fails to produce. he only has like 20 innings this season, and only 5 as a starter, so it's a bit hard to imagine him being really solid for the rest of the year...
i heard that floyd is having a tough time in scranton, and is not likely to get called up until he straightens things out.
i think ryan howard's going to get traded for someone...

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 16 June 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

that's kind of rough that floyd and howard have had such a rough go of things in the brief time in which they've had at the ml level.

phillies eat their young!

(and i've seen neither hide nor hair of cole hamels this year!)

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 16 June 2005 13:00 (twenty years ago)

isn't cole hamels hurt? i don't think he's pitched much at all, at any level, since he signed. i think he broke his hand in a bar fight.

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 16 June 2005 13:28 (twenty years ago)

i did not know that.

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 16 June 2005 14:32 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Currently leading NL rookies in VORP -- Mr. Rob Tejeda.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

pinch me ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 18 September 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

um, that was a fun 9th last night.
or actually, fun for about 6 runs, and then retarded.

― the leglo (the leglo), Sunday, 18 September 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

I'd love to see em hang with the Astros til I can witness the Mets knocking them off next week.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 September 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

Great Hudson-Lieber duel proceeding right now... I should be at Pedro-Lieber on Tuesday.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 September 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

whee. the phillies just came alive in the 9th.

― the leglo (the leglo), Thursday, 22 September 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

SHANE VICTORINO picks fine spot for first homer. Bobby, you had to see that 116th Hudson pitch, dincha?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 September 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

but the astros also won :-(

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 23 September 2005 03:47 (twenty years ago)

david bell FINALLY proves that he isn't useless!

still, this will be heartbreaking if they can't overtake the astros.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 24 September 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

David Bell looks like a baker, or an accountant or something.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 24 September 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

after this, only ONE GAME from a wildcard spot!!

(yay to the cubs, at least for friday night)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 1 October 2005 03:54 (twenty years ago)

and jimmy rollins HAS to get some sort of award ... he's been carrying this team all month.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 1 October 2005 03:54 (twenty years ago)

Howard has a freaking scary swing, he reminds me a bit of Dave Parker at the plate.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 1 October 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

ed wade...gone!

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

Window of opprotunity for Phils...closed!

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

What a strange time to fire him.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

Sooner the better, when it comes to figuring out what's what this offseason.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 10 October 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

I just meant that most of his moves this year were pretty solid. The Thome contract was idiotic, but that's the only bad move he's made recently that I can remember.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

at the time didn't the Thome contract seem like a safe bet, though?

― gear (gear), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

Thome led the NL in homers his first year and hit 40 in his second year in Philly, so I wouldn't call that a straight out bust.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

I don't know. He's 35, not much of a fielder, doesn't exactly look like much of an athlete, and makes around 14 million per year for the next three years. I agree that he's a hell of a hitter, but I'm not giving a relatively rich six-year contract to a 32-year-old bunyanesque first baseman.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

So if you guys like the Thome deal, what exactly is it that Wade should be fired for?

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

well that offense the phillies got isn't the problem, it's a monster. that starting staff, though...

― gear (gear), Monday, 10 October 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

2001 86-76 2nd NL East
2002 80-81 3rd NL East
2003 86-76 3rd NL East
2004 86-76 3rd NL East

July 26, 2000: Curt Schilling traded by the Philadelphia Phillies to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla.

There is your difference in the past few seasons. You add Schilling and they win the division at least once and possibly make the playoffs three times. Teams rarely win without an ace and the Phils have been trying to get by with middling starting pitching this whole time.

The Cubs did the same screwup letting Maddux get away all those many years ago.

I don't know if Rolen was due to be a free agent or not, but they didn't get much play out of that trade of him to the Cards.

Six year guaranteed contracts for anyone is pretty suspect, but Thome did live up to the first two years. I think he might bounce back, but you never know. It is kind of stupid to play with putting that much money into one player and somehow not keep Schilling and Rolen, mostly by the front office being antagonistic. Then again, playing sports in Philly seems to not be too much fun for many athletes whatever sport they play.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 10 October 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

The Rolen deal seemed to have little to do with Wade, or at the very least was not strictly a baseball decision, it was more a matter of conflicting personalities. I don't blame them for getting rid of Rolen, as Polanco provided a pretty decent replacement option, and offense really wasn't a big problem.

The Schilling trade didn't work out well, it's true, but Padilla was great in 2002 and 2003 and is very young and cheap, whereas Schilling is very old and expensive. The real problem pitching-wise was not re-signing Millwood. That was terribly shortsighted.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 10 October 2005 23:01 (twenty years ago)

Signing a big slow slugger long-term after age 30 = dum dum

(as a general rule)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

there was a good article in the inquirer re all of the bad deals that ed wade put together. it included the schilling one and the rolen one (though the phils weren't gonna keep rolen -- still they could've gotten MUCH more than they did).

some also blame wade for firing bowa and replacing him w/ manuel -- not that manuel is a genius or anything (he was part of the baggage w/ thome), but he doesn't deserve the punching-bag treatment he's gotten.

the jim thome deal seemed to make sense at the time b/c (a) when they signed him, they thought that he (and millwood) were the 2 missing pieces to a championship; and (b) ryan howard wasn't ready for prime time. what's changed is (a) ryan howard became ready for prime time; and (b) thome got hurt and is better suited for being a DH.

i'm crossing my fingers that maybe the phils can convince brian cashman to come onboard. that, or what's dallas green doing these days?!?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:44 (twenty years ago)

p.s.: though imagine how amazing a lineup the phils could've had w/ rolen, burrell, abreu, utley, thome, lieberthal, rollins, and howard (if they were all healthy and ON at the same time).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:46 (twenty years ago)

The couple of times I saw the Phils play in the second half the announcers like to point out the athletic prowess of Ryan Howard. The guy can field first quite well, can he not play leftfield? Thome is going to be hard to unload, so why not try to get both into the lineup.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:39 (twenty years ago)

Where are you gonna stick Burrell, then? 3B?

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:29 (twenty years ago)

It probably would create a NYY kind of defensive outfield, but I don't think Kenny Lofton at this point is a sterling defensive center fielder.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

Oh god Lofton should be gonzo.

Funny thing: if they just played Plathido @ 3B, Utley @ 2B, and Bell @ sore-covered skinflute, the Phils would've been good to go this year. Instead of, um, trading PP away for UU and BS.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 13 October 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

I don't know, the conventional wisdom is that UU solidified the bullpen. Is that not true? It seems like they needed another pitcher more than they needed another hitter.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

i dunno, dude. u squared should have changed his name to taco bell.

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 13 October 2005 22:05 (twenty years ago)

Hmm, his 4.13 ERA for the Phillies wasn't particularly impressive.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 13 October 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

ERA for relievers is a bit deceptive.

For instance, take a look at these stats:

Urbina as a Tiger
ERA 2.63
WHIP 1.28
OPSA .706
P/PA 4.66
K/9 10.21
K/BB 2.21

Urbina as a Philly
ERA 4.13
WHIP 1.15
OPSA .653
P/PA 4.21
K/9 11.35
K/BB 2.64

Which pitcher would you want in your park? The one with the bigger ERA, or the one where every other stat/metric is better?

Something tells me the ERA jump may have to do with Park Factor (CBP is a pillbox).

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 13 October 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

Inherited runners!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 14 October 2005 00:13 (twenty years ago)

today's WTF? story, from the inquirer: Machete attack linked to Ugueth Urbina

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

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