Baseball movies, damn it, BASEBALL MOVIES!

My feeling is that it's pretty hard to beat all the same movies that everyone always talks about, but that the only one that conveys what baseball is really all about for pro players is "Bang the Drum Slowly." Forget DeNiro's risible baseball skills and the main plot: all the card games, all the boredom and anxiety!

And then there is the real world.

And I will take Bull Durham.

Jonathan Quayle Higgins is probably right, though, in re: BNB.

Ugh. The book was so much better. The complexity of the various plots/subplots as well as the large number of characters involved are far better suited for a book. I didn't feel as though I learned anything from the movie.

Oh, wait: I guess I learned a lot about Kathleen Turner's nipples from Body Heat!

Also, I thought Crash's thing was that he GOT his cup of coffee, and spilled it all over himself.

i don't think i used the phrase 'coming of age' as it's intended and i'm really not sure about 'seminal' but oh well.

i will type for you the classic lines, when i recall them.

Field of Dreams is great, 'about baseball' or not.

The best scene in Bull Durham, without question, is the "DO YOU WANT ME TO CALL YOU A COCKSUCKER" scene.

The Bad News Bears is the best. Apart from the Kelly / Amanda deus ex machinas, which never would have happened in MY little league, it was about as true to life as any baseball movie I've ever seen. And funny and awesome and memorable too.

I've never read the book, but Eight Men Out was awesome.

"The Scout"
"The Fan"
"The Slugger's Wife"

"The Fan" deserves a very special place in cinema hell for this quadruple crown --- horrible performances by DeNiro, Snipes, Del Torro and SMASH YOU OVER THE SKULL direction from hackmeister Tony Scott.

"The Scout" almost gets a half star because Albert Brooks went on Letterman the day of release and claimed he promised a dying boy the film would be number 1 at the box office that weekend.

I guess the kid died.

you're right, i had a crush on her when i was 10, too.

was there REALLY a need to remake the king of comedy as a baseball movie?

you've got to hand it to jerry lewis, though...

Chickenshit Reagan-zeitgeist trashing of a good book.

There's a great sequence in Gregg Araki's new "Mysterious Skin" of teen hustler Joseph Gordon Levitt getting 'service' under the table while he does PA at the local smalltown Kansas beer league games. (And then there's the Little League pedophilia.)

A critic wants to destroy his play
his marriage is ending
and tonight...
His Team is One Game Away.

-> GAME 6

Starring Michael Keaton, Griffin Dunne, Ari Graynor,
Shalom Harlow, Bebe Neuwirth, Catherine O'Hara,
and Robert Downey, Jr.

Directed by Michael Hoffman

Written by Don DeLillo

Produced by Amy Robinson, Griffin Dunne,
Leslie Urdang, Christina Weiss Lurie.
Executive Producers: Michael Nozik,
David Skinner, Bryn Iler

Had no idea that Reggie's been sitting there on Prime since March.

About as good as the Yogi doc, although being my era, more personally significant to me. Interviewees: Aaron, Fingers and Rudi, Stewart and Blue, Julius Erving, Jeter (also in the Yogi film--in line to be the next go-to Dave Grohl or Dick Cavett). I think most of the famous moments are there, including the play that forced him to miss the '72 WS, although two from the '78 WS are missing: his non-interference on the basepaths, and his showdown with Bob Welch. His relationship with Munson is glossed over a bit--Reggie says it was Munson who came up with Mr. October; Bill James disputes that, says it was Reggie himself--and he doesn't mention Munson's death. The footage of him getting pulled by Martin on national TV is as jarring as ever--I know players still occasionally get into it in the dugout (I remember Machado and Tatis), but having to get a cop in there to hold back the manager belongs to another world. Very focused on race, both during Jackson's career and later, his disappointment at being shut out from the inner circles of management and being denied two ownership bids.

It's so strange for me to see him as what he is now: a soft-spoken old guy. Has there ever been a signing in sports like his with the Yankees in '77? Probably lots of them in other sports I don't follow, and if Ohtani goes to L.A., that'll be huge. But it was such an incredible intersection of time and place and personalities (Reggie, Steinbrenner, Martin), juiced a little more by the newness of free agency.

His HR in the '71 ASG:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfc9xnZsvZo

Just thought of an odd omission, which you think--thinking about the game today--Reggie would turn into a badge of honour: he still holds the career records for strikeouts. Surprised--and unless Stanton gets a few fulltime seasons in, there's no one on the horizon for at least a decade.

I may have mentioned this upthred but the nolan ryan one is dogshit

I didn't dislike it that much, but I said it was "far from great" upthread. Too worshipful is my general recollection.

i can't imagine it's a classic, but i am definitely intrigued by this one

https://i.imgur.com/oIHaVsz.jpg

omg

joe mantegna??

yup!!

Turned up on one of those YouTube sidebars for me--this is the Reggie that Reggie missed (or, more accurately, stayed clear of).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIUe7XzpiTQ

A two-part Zoomcast I did with Steven Rubio on baseball movies: The Bad News Bears, Bingo Long, Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, A League of Their Own, Reggie.

part one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKIUt6bbbo&t

part two: www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-TnrBFcfTA

Moneyball, too.

Finally caught up with the Dock Ellis documentary (on Prime right now). I can't believe it's been 15 years since he died--I wasn't even thinking that he was dead as I watched. The rare film where I didn't squirm through a little bit of crying; especially great is this letter Ellis reads from Jackie Robinson. The film doesn't shy away from the way he treated his one ex-wife. There's some disbelief from a few ex-teammates about how bad the trade was that sent him to the Yankees in 1976; they're right, but that had a lot more to do with Willie Randolph than with Ellis (who had one good season and moved on). Dock Ellis for Doc Medich--perfect.

skipped around the baseball movie countdown video, he correctly gives props to A League Of Their Own... it's too bad the Amazon series didn't take a cue from the movie, so much painful CGI baseball in that one.

Sitting there at two in the morning last night and got caught up in a couple of episodes of Ken Burns' opus. PBS has evidently been re-running it. I saw it when it debuted and once more a few years later. I know its sentimentality and stylistic tics get mocked a lot, and yes, it's too New-York-centric, but I still think of it as a true epic.

I was right about Brooks Robinson and "Theme from Shaft" (which gives way to some swampy instrumental). Lots of great music in the last two episodes: Santana for Clemente, the Youngbloods for Earl Weaver (my favourite--inspired), Otis Redding for Frank Robinson. The color footage of Jackie Robinson's funeral is amazing (Bill Russell and Don Newcombe among the pallbearers, Campanella in his wheelchair). Sandy Koufax's retirement press conference. Bowie Kuhn with a frozen, fake smile as Robinson calls for a black manager on national TV. Everyone talking about Bob Gibson in an awestruck tone. George Will summarized football with a rehearsed line that made me cringe a little. Dragged myself away around when they got to 1973, but I'm going to watch this again within the next few months. (Gyac, I don't know if you have access, but I'm pretty sure on the whole you would love it.)

(And the kind of thing I love: "Mao Tse Tung, Satchel Paige, and Casey Stengel died.")

As for those stylistic tics:

i can't look at buck o'neil without slowing zooming and panning
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, January 27, 2021 12:25 AM (two years ago)

I don't think I've ever seen even a part of the Burns doc - When It Was A Game was my go-to for old timey footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VPG-yxB6_E

The one with all the color footage from the '40s and '50s, right? I watched the first one--I believe there was a second.

Three total, I think the last may have come out way later.

Aside from baseball, I was hooked by the look of that home movie Kodachrome once they got into the color era.

Not a movie, but just watched the MLB Network's George Brett documentary/profile. As I've said before, one of the most memorable players I was able to see for the duration of his career, from his playoff heroics against the Yankees in the '70s to the Pine Tar Game to killing the Jays in the '85 ALCS. (Because I was a little bit off baseball from '79 to '82, I followed his pursuit of .400 through the paper but wasn't as caught up in it as I normally would have been.) Had a toxic relationship with his father, who sounded like a true nightmare.

Turned up in a sidebar, first time I've ever seen this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvaZlsi5rLs

Meantime, Vinegar Syndrome just announced this:

https://vinegarsyndrome.com/collections/frontpage/products/bang-the-drum-slowly

Hearing about this for the first time today. Cast includes Bill Lee and Frederick Wiseman; that is truly bizarre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eephus

https://i.imgur.com/3y4dbss.jpeg

Two episodes into The Clubhouse: A Year with the Red Sox. Still amazed that the Red Sox got two Netflix series within a year or so.

I'm enjoying it, although not as much as gyac (why I'm posting here)--I just don't have any special interest in the Red Sox. And that’s been on my mind as I watch, the question of "why this team?" If I could pick any team from 2024 for this kind of series, I'd probably look to the extremes: 1) the hated Dodgers, whose season encompassed the Ohtani signing, the gambling scandal, the 50/50 season, and then winning the World Series; or 2) the White Sox or Athletics, who had all sorts of negative drama.

Anyway, addressing the series that is...The trials of Casas and Duran and Bello have been documented closely thus far, and I’m learning stuff. I always picture starters sitting stoically on the bench between innings, whether they’re pitching well or not; Bello disappears into a special room that seems to be meant for cursing and throwing stuff. The sequence where Cora had to send down a bunch of guys just before the season began was funny: first words out of his mouth every time was “We’re making moves.” Some of the first episode, the segment on Red Sox lore, overlapped with The Comeback. When Casas is doing yoga or philosophizing poetically, he reminded me of Steve Hovely from Ball Four.

So we’ll see where it goes. I did check BRef for a reminder of how the season finished: 81-81.

lol. Context for choice of team was that MLB offered it to numerous teams, Red Sox said yes some years back, blah blah blah legal stuff, it was lined up for 2024. Of course the actual baseball for this season was secondary - though there are some great baseball moments, and not just Sox, and the filming of certain events is really great looking - it’s about the people who play the game and I think that’s more apparent as the show winds on. I found myself thinking at a couple of times “I’d love to know more about what was going on here.” A point to note is that the featured players are largely those comfortable with it - older players or those with families mainly didn’t want to be involved to the same degree.

Great baseball moments in this series:

- every time Aaron Judge hits a home run or steps up to the plate, it’s cinematic. His body, the expression on his face, the sound of the bat. He’s the “villain” in a couple of episodes and if you don’t know baseball you get a good sense of him as this actual monster who’ll turn a game on a swing, like in real life.

- pitcher meltdowns. Bello has an episode about his awful May/June struggles, but there’s also more shown of the faces and expressions of opposing pitchers than you get on broadcast. Tyler O’Neill hits a home run on Opening Day off Luis Castillo in Seattle and as O’Neill rounds the bases you see Castillo dejected on the mound; Abreu pinch hits and drives in a go ahead run off Nestor Cortes who very visibly screams FUUUUUUCK and Yoshida takes Clay Holmes deep in dramatic fashion on the last swing of the game and before the camera sweeps away to follow him around the bases you see Holmes raise his glove to his face and begin screaming into it.

- most of the home runs in this series, whether Sox or not, are gorgeously filmed. And why not?

- The little chats players have on base with each other, like in the opening episode where an unseen Mariner is asking Duran what the deal with the on base celebration is.

Also, Tanner Houck on giving up a home run to Ohtani in the All Star Game

Houck: I thought that was a good pitch! He’s really good huh?
Duran: Yeah
Houck: I kept the sinker down and I thought that was a pop up and it just kept going

Like zero rancour, just straight up admiration that Ohtani really is that guy - and he’s right, it wasn’t a bad pitch at all.

I'm actually going to avoid your posts above on the spoiler principle, but look forward to reading them after the fact. If the offer was put out to lots of teams and it was the Red Sox who accepted, then that explains that--they're entitled to this.

Highlight of E3 for me was definitely the story of 32-year-old rookie Cam Booser--genuinely moving. I see he's with the White Sox now and pitching sort of okay...There's a funny moment when they give Casea the in-game mic, and when he starts in on a long story about his dad, the guy in the booth flashes a bemused look to everyone else as if to say "Is this going to last the full inning?"

One thing...don't hate me here, gyac...is that baseball players tend to speak in cliches, and there's a lot of that here. In Ball Four--my frame of reference, can't help it--Bouton is always there to comment on the cliches. The difference between a book and TV show, I know, but you don't have that here, just the cliches.

Would love to have seen Stroman's reaction when the Red Sox were stealing bases left and right, often without a throw from Trevino.

Casas, sorry--typing and watching TV.

definitely the story of 32-year-old rookie Cam Booser--genuinely moving.

Post by Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac) from things I learned about in baseball this week/how i learned to stop worrying and love baseball on ILX - things I learned about in baseball this week/how i learned to stop worrying and love baseball Cam Booser game.

The funniest part of that episode is when they’re trying to tell him he’s called up and his brain actually can’t believe it, he doesn’t hear what they’re saying and they have to repeat themselves.

Would have been great to have been there...I will periodically keep tabs on how he's doing.

E4: The Jarren Duran episode. (Perfect timing--I looked at mlb.com a few minutes after finishing, and Duran was the front page photo.) So great that I got to see the Jays melt down and blow a 6-2 lead; I can't even hide on Netflix. (Managed to erase that game from my memory, I guess--no recollection.) I wonder if they softened Duran's relationship with his father a bit. They make it clear how hard he was on him, but it just felt like they held back somehow. Just idle speculation.

Surprised that "Holy fuckballs" has never caught on as a popular expression--it's so euphonious.

They definitely held back - Duran said this (to mlb.com!) and I’m definitely bringing my own stuff about authoritative father figures to it but…as Tyler Glasnow astutely pointed out in an interview a year or two back, baseball is full of these characters.

I thought it was an incredible episode. I couldn’t believe how candid he was.

https://www.mlb.com/amp/news/red-sox-prospect-jarren-duran-could-make-an-impact-in-2021.html

Sorry, this quote:

As a 5-foot-6 student at Cypress High School, Duran said he was “the small guy who had to work twice as hard as everybody else.” A growth spurt helped. The guidance of his parents, Octavio and Dena, mattered even more.

“I owe so much to my dad,” Duran said of his father, who has advanced from field work to a management position at PepsiCo. “My dad was my discipliner and my mom was my caretaker. My dad would be tough on me and then my mom would (say), ‘Oh, it’s OK.’ Then, sometimes I’d have both of them critiquing me and I’m like, ‘Hey, Mom! You’re supposed to love me when Dad gets on me.’”

Surprised that "Holy fuckballs" has never caught on as a popular expression--it's so euphonious.

It's awful! I was doing my Addison DeWitt impression there...Going to try to watch E5 tonight (juggling The Handmaid's Tale and Better Call Saul, too).

I liked hearing the Pixies, yeah.

E5: Mostly Brayan Bello, plus the AS game.

I'd be interested in some large-scale study on whether there's a link between success as a pitcher and how well you're able to control your emotions. Give pitchers a number from 1-10 on how visibly they show their emotions--anger, frustration, joy--based on personal and anecdotal observation. Maybe impossible to eliminate subjectivity there...Pitchers I think of as cool: Maddux, Rivera, Jimmy Key. Emotive: Eckersley, Stieb, Stroman. Maybe you'd find nothing. All of those guys are good to great--different things work for different people. And players change over time.

Watching Bello--the club seems to agree--you get the impression that his biggest obstacle is letting his emotions get ahead of him. But maybe he in fact needs that, like Al Pacino in Heat, who tells his wife he has to be Al Pacino to be a good detective. I have no idea, but it's an interesting subject to me.

You'd have to eliminate knuckleballers from the study, because they're not really human.

A lot of guys who performed at a high level as well and pitch hot do it well - Buehler, Scherzer, Skubal is very emotive during a lot of his starts. Should be pointed out that Bello is only 24 and dealing with some huge issues per the episode. Pitching with/through emotion seems to be as individual as the person and quite often they can channel anger as energy in a productive way. With Bello it’s very difficult to say because his pitches have changed a lot over time too; his changeup used to be his best and now it’s terrible. The best Bello starts to my eye are when he’s looking loose and relaxed and having fun out there. Just like the person he appears to be off the field.

Sale obviously a hot blooded guy on the mound as well.

Famously set fire to his uniform, getting him a ticket out of Chicago...The episode makes it clear that his family's absence was weighing on Bello.

Excuse me, he cut that uniform up with a KNIFE, please respect the crazy Sale lore. Yes it does. I was really surprised that the team doesn’t help players with that stuff.

Been a while...I think I'm sticking with my embellished arsonist story.

Or I could go with the time he cut a teammate up with a knife.

Frank Kogan used to say that every song title ever automatically became better when you tacked on "with a Butcher Knife" at the end. Probably true of baseball lore, too.

Got sidetracked by a Better Call Saul rewatch, but picked this up again with E6 (two more to go). A lot of Craig Breslow, who strikes me as a real Jimmy Olsen/Boy Scout type and not all that interesting. There's also a fair amount of time devoted to the dynamics of the trade deadline--buy vs. sell, today vs. tomorrow, etc.--that I would assume most people who watch this are already familiar with.

Some good minor league stuff early in the episode, including a great juxtaposition of the team's owner hyping their dedication to the fan experience and a profanity-laced, umpire-baiting rant from the manager. I also, for some reason, found the support group for guys on the IL funny.

Yeah they all looked incredibly bored the whole time so it must be compulsory

Exactly what I thought. I'm sure it really is a mental strain being on the IL for months at a time, but my impression was that the players preferred method of dealing with that was informal banter with their teammates.

E7, primarily focused on two things: 1) the Jarren Duran suspension, and 2) the season starting to slip away, culminating in a nightmarish loss to the Rangers (up 4-3, tied, go ahead 7-4 in the bottom of the 8th, botch a double-play in the 9th, 7-7, lose in extras). Very good use of Three Dog Night's "Shambala" and Jonathan Richman's "That Summer Feeling"; funny throwaway dugout chatter, I think from Jason Varitek: "It's National Give-Your-Fucking-All Day."