Raffy gets to 3000

TIM KORTE
Associated Press

SEATTLE - Rafael Palmeiro plans to display the ball from his 3,000th hit right next to the one he smacked for his 500th home run. Those are milestones that should be good enough to make the Baltimore slugger a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Yet Palmeiro insisted he's not worthy to share space with Hank Aaron and Willie Mays.

"You're talking about two of the best players of all time," Palmeiro said after collecting his 3,000th hit when the Orioles beat Seattle 6-3 Friday night. "I'm in a group with them, but that doesn't mean I belong."

Palmeiro has 566 home runs, joining Aaron, Mays and Eddie Murray as the only players with 3,000 hits and 500 homers.

"Hank Aaron has about 200 more home runs than I do. Willie Mays has about 100. In my opinion, those guys belong in a class by themselves," Palmeiro said.

Palmeiro became the 26th player to reach the hit milestone, doubling in a run in the fifth inning to tie Roberto Clemente for No. 25 place on baseball's list. He passed Clemente with a sixth-inning single.

"I was just trying to drive the runner in," Palmeiro said. "I was trying to do my thing, keep it simple. I did what I had to do, and it was my 3,000th hit. I was numb going around the bases. I don't remember much."

Melvin Mora and Sal Fasano each hit solo home runs for the Orioles, who remained one game behind first-place Boston in the AL East.

Rodrigo Lopez (8-5) pitched 5 1-3 innings for his second straight victory and B.J. Ryan pitched a perfect ninth for his 21st save in 24 chances, finishing off the Mariners for the second straight night.

Palmeiro always has maintained a low profile, preferring to represent himself through his game instead of his words. He's often been overlooked, perhaps because he's never reached the World Series or won a batting title.

Folks are paying attention now, though his peers took notice long ago.

"It's a pretty incredible accomplishment," Texas shortstop Michael Young said. "He's one of only four guys to do 3,000-500, and they're still raising silly questions about whether he can be in the Hall of Fame or not. It's impressive he's still going, and he makes it look easy."

Said Baltimore's Sammy Sosa: "Raffy accomplished something great tonight. He went out there and battled for many, many years. Today, he got to a place not many people can - 3,000 hits is a lot. I'm very happy for him."

Considering Palmeiro's gentlemanly ways, it was fitting that Orioles manager Lee Mazzilli led a champagne toast when Palmeiro finally returned to the clubhouse after doing several on-field interviews.

"We just wanted to say how much he means to us, how special the moment was," teammate Jay Gibbons said.

Nobody poured beer on his head, though a reporter who later noticed a wet spot on Palmeiro's jersey couldn't resist asking in the interview room if it came from the postgame soiree.

"Nah. I just spilled some water," Palmeiro explained.

Palmeiro's big hit came off Seattle starter Joel Pineiro (3-5), who tossed the ball to Mazzilli as the Orioles rushed from their dugout and bullpen to swarm Palmeiro at second base.

"It was emotional. I wasn't expecting that," said Palmeiro, 2-for-4 with a walk. "I thought maybe for a second or two the game would stop and we could keep it moving, but they came out there."

He was cheered on each at-bat, and flashbulbs popped on every pitch with the record pending. Teammates mobbed him with hugs after his 3,000th hit and he received a lengthy standing ovation from the Safeco Field crowd.

"I'm very honored by the way the Mariner fans applauded," Palmeiro said. "I'm very thankful for that. I really appreciated it."

Palmeiro's sons were on hand to enjoy the night, too. Ten-year-old Preston Palmeiro documented the events with a video camera. Another son, 15-year-old Patrick, was a Baltimore batboy.

Both ran on the field with the team and hugged their father.

"That was the best. For them to be a part of that, to be out there with me, I'll never forget that. I hope they never forget it, either," Palmeiro said.

Rickey Henderson was the most recent player to reach 3,000 hits, accomplishing the feat Oct. 7, 2001, for San Diego.

Palmeiro's double was an important hit in the victory as well as being historic, curling into the left corner to score Mora for a 4-1 lead. The next batter, Gibbons, doubled to right to score Palmeiro.

"When I hit it, I knew it was fair the whole way," Palmeiro said. "But as I got closer to first base, it was just tailing away. I thought it may go foul. Thank God it didn't."

Besides moving up on the career hits list, Palmeiro also tied Robin Yount for No. 13 with 583 doubles. His 1,187 extra-base hits rank seventh, breaking a tie with Frank Robinson. Palmeiro is within range of No. 6 Lou Gehrig (1,190).

"It's a great accomplishment," Seattle manager Mike Hargrove said. "Nothing can overshadow it. I, along with everyone else in baseball, congratulate him on a tremendous achievement."

Next within sight of 3,000 hits are Craig Biggio and Barry Bonds, each at 2,730.

i would put him on the level of eddie murray, though. he's actually probably a better hitter than eddie was and i think that he'll finish his career in the top five all time for extra base hits is pretty impressive, too.

Eddie Murray's power numbers and batting average would be a bit higher if he was in his prime in the mid to late 90s like Raffy. You have to give Murray some props for being second alltime in career jacks to Mantle for switchhitters. Palmeiro's numbers are better, but I can't say that I think he that much better than Murray. I'd like to read a comparison by some pitchers that bridged their careers making a comparison between the two.

Rafael Palmeiro was on a badass Mississippi State that also had Will Clark, Jeff Brantley, and Bobby Thigpen. Thigpen started in the outfield and was also the closer.

It depends on how it goes, if the O's want to keep him around, which is a better bet than Sosa, I could see Palmeiro sticking around for another couple of seasons. With the O's current lineup, he could still be productive and his final stats could end up really off the charts.

I think one thing about Palmeiro that is really impressive is how few games he has missed in his career, other than the strike season, he has only one year under a 152 games since 1987! It isn't quite Cal Ripken, but it is notable.

I bet when the Cubs traded him, you wouldn't have found anyone in baseball that would thought Palmeiro would hit 500+ jacks. You might think he would have a nice career, but at best results similar to someone like Mark Grace, a good average and drive in some runs, but nowhere near those kind power numbers.

Murray:

Black Ink: Batting - 11 (201) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 181 (53) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 55.8 (42) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 154.5 (66) (Likely HOFer > 100)

Raffy:

Black Ink: Batting - 8 (263) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 183 (50) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 57.0 (34) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 156.0 (63) (Likely HOFer > 100)

However, the HOF metrics only give credit for winning MVP awards, not for finishing consistently high in the voting. Raffy's highest finish was 5th, and was in the top 10 only three times. Murray was in the top 10 eight times (and 11th once), in the top five six of those times, and was the runner-up once. This stuff really matters to voters (and to stat-heads, James has made these arguments as well) ... essentially, there was never a point in his career when he was considered to be one of the top five or six players in the league, or even the best (arguably) at his own position. That really hurts when it comes to HOF consideration. And like Earl said, if Murray and Raffy had played in each other's eras, Murray would be considerably ahead, and Raffy's career numbers would look more like Harold Baines' (who is no HOF'er).

For HOF discussions, winning MVP (or Cy Young) awards is secondary to consistently finishing high in the voting. The writers don't always pick the right winner, but they are very good at identifying who the dominant players are from year to year.

Among his 1b contemporaries, Palmeiro's peaks certainly are below Bagwell and McGwire for starters.

murray's peak (4-5 consec years as good or better than any raffy ever put up) was easily better but overall palmeiro's been more consistent longer. palmeiro's argument isn't that he was ever the best or near it, just that he's been steadily productive for a longass time. that's why we're talking about 3000/500 here.

Love the 'stache.