Whose Baseball Team Is This? (2009 Blue Jays Thread)

FABIAN
Butch, whose motorcycle is this?

BUTCH
Its a baseball team.

FABIAN
Whose baseball team is this?

BUTCH
Teds.

FABIAN
Who's Ted?

BUTCH
Teds dead, baby, Teds dead.

And with that, the two lovebirds PEEL AWAY on Grace, as the
SONG on the BOOM BOX RISES.

FADE TO BLACK

Anyway, I took the chance to make a thread to post a Sheehan article I'm sorry to say hits it bang on the nose for me.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8348

What we might call the Roy Halladay/Vernon Wells Blue Jays peaked last season. They did so without anyone noticing, without ever being relevant to either the AL East or wild-card races, and perhaps without having the kind of year that would get them off of a difficult treadmill.

Nevertheless, this was a fantastic baseball team in 2008, the best run-prevention team in baseball thanks to a strong rotation, deep bullpen and excellent defense. Despite playing in the loaded AL East, the Jays led the majors by allowing just 610 runs, and they also led if you use Adjusted Equivalent Runs Allowed. They had the third-best Defensive Efficiency and ranked seventh in PADE in the majors. Their pitchers were second in the AL in strikeouts and first in fewest home runs allowed.

So why did they go 86-76? Competition is clearly a factor. Per the Adjusted Standings, the Jays had a third-order record of 92-70, the fourth-best mark in the game. Unfortunately, two of the three teams better than them in 2008 were the AL East's division winner and the AL's wild-card team, shutting the Jays out of the postseason even had they played to their mark. Toronto's run prevention was so good that it carried a mediocre offense to that feat of ranking as the fourth-best team in baseball last season.

Were the Blue Jays in any other division in baseball last year, they would have made the postseason and been one of the game's best stories. With 2008 behind them, though, it's hard to see how, even with an improved offense, they get within 80 runs of last season's 610 allowed. Too many things went right for that to happen. Throw in this week's death of team owner Ted Rogers, and the uncertainty over the future grows. The Jays probably won't fall apart the way the Royals did after Ewing Kauffman's death, but a corporate-owned team whose benefit is largely its position as television programming certainly could see itself treated less well by the corporation in the short term. Rogers' willingness to let J.P. Ricciardi go over budget the last few years was a good thing for the organization, even if it was not a decision that produced a championship. Cutting back now would hurt the team, but there's an argument that no amount of money is going to make the Blue Jays better than the third-best team in their own division.

ugh.

john (ct): This year seems to not have any can't miss teams, the Yankees might be considred so but afterall they are in the very competitive AL East. What teams in the AL and NL do you think will surprise in a big way?

John Perrotto: Let's say the Blue Jays in the AL and Braves in the NL.

Joe Lefko (NJ): Care to elaborate on the Jays surprising in the AL? From where I'm sitting, they're significantly worse than last year and will be competing against the Orioles' new and improved lineup/defense for last place...

John Perrotto: Pitching, defense, breakout from Lind, finally a monster year from Rios.

*sigh*

Shouldn't that be on the dumbass analysis thred

ha!

they're more like a freak show than a baseball team at this point.

xp: I think Sheehan picked the Yankees as best candidates for an '08 Tigers-style flameout. :D

the pitching freak show continues...

We're in first place!

tied, anyways. i'm sure you enjoy it as much as i do!

no way man, run differential counts (+7), get your +5 out of my face

:)

almost forfeited the game tho - due to all the insane behavior from the mouth-breathers in the stands with me.
Anderson had 2 - *TWO* - balls thrown at him! i have never seen people behave like that at a game before. pretty much ruined the home opener for me.

Wow -- the Detroit TV team noticed one ball, and all they were able to show was Anderson picking it up. Why did it take the announcer 10 minutes to say something?

i dunno - it was the outfield so maybe they hard a hard time noticing.
i heard the same about the J's broadcast - they didn't see the "big deal" that caused them to delay the game. maybe they were trying to save face?

Suspended Liquor License Means Dry Jays, Argos Games

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_33488.aspx

http://cache-foo.deadspin.com/gawker/assets/images/11/2009/04/504x_bjs.com

so true.

Recommendation: The Jays are saying he suffered a right in his right elbow but we'll know more on his status later today. The Jays did reveal that Litsch did complain about some elbow soreness in his last start as well. (Rotowire.com)

You have to watch out for those rights.

wau @ this teams' hitting!

Though rookie Travis Snider has been playing against right-handers and Bautista against lefties, Blue Jays manager Cito Gaston won’t call his LF situation a platoon. "Still early. There’s still an opportunity," he said. "Even though it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, the duck’s going to walk differently soon."

This kind of stuff gets brushed off when the team is playing great, but this is EXACTLY why Cito is such a cocksmoking douche and isn't fit to manage a Little League team. He's got the organization's best prospect on the roster (and he's hitting well!) but Cito wants to platoon him with a veteran, because Cito is comfortable playing vets whereas rookies need to be babied, even if the vet in question is a journeyman role player and the rookie is the future of the franchise. PLAY SNIDER. FIRE CITO.

^Dusty Lasordaism

somehow I don't think .317/.374/.540 for the team is going to last

maybe the future of the franchise it hitting so well right now because he doesn't have to deal with lefties for the time being?
not the biggest fan of Cito - mainly for bullpen-al reasons - but i'm not gonna flip out over a 21 year old sitting down every 3rd game.

Given enough playing time, Bautista just might be able to put up his SECOND season of league average OBP!

Oh come on Thermo, not you too! Snider's hitting well because he's one of the best prospects in baseball (according to just about everybody), and he's not playing everyday because we can't trust Cito to help develop young players any more than we can trust him to wipe his own ass without an instruction manual. Once upon a time, he didn't think Shawn Green should be playing everyday because who knows, maybe Orlando Merced would be the breakout superstar to lead the team into the next century. Real organizations don't tolerate this bullshit -- you didn't see the Rays hanging onto Ty Wigginton so he could platoon with Evan Longoria in his first season.

oh. me too.
so what happens if Snider goes to playing full time in LF, and slumps. does he keep him out there then, full time? or does he sit him down full time or back to the platoon? should he shift the kids role on the team daily based on his performance? i don't see anything wrong with being cautious to start the season - he is a full three years younger than Longoria afterall!

to be honest i don't have a big problem with the platoon or full time - i can see reasons for both. but flipping out on Cito when the team is hitting like they are seems silly.

Those "what if?" scenarios might be reasonable if we were dealing with an ordinary manager, but Cito Gaston has a long history of not knowing the first thing about breaking in young players. Longoria's age isn't the point -- he's just one example among plenty that if you've got a top prospect on the big club then you PLAY THEM and stick with them and that's how they become stars. The fact that the team is hitting well at the moment is also not the point -- this is about the big picture, and nobody thinks about that when the team can do no wrong because whatever they're doing now is presumably "working". But the Jays' management is supposed to be thinking about the big picture, which means this: Bautista shouldn't be playing in place of Snider. EVER.

The Jays have been hedging their bets with their young stars for the past 15 years and that's a big reason why the team has been mediocre for so long. They pulled exactly the same crap with Lind last year and they're doing it again with Snider.

So like what the fuck did Scutaro and Hill eat/drink/rub on themselves/inject this offseason.

heart.

Goat placenta

He should give some of it to Michael Barrett, who for a big strong stud just has one freaky injury after another. Landed on his shoulder last night, looks like weeks, or surgery.

the blue jays current injured rotation:

1. McGowan
2. Marcum
3. Litsch
4. Romero
5. Janssen

Cl. Ryan

lets play a game: match the injury to the player above!

A. right forearm strain
B. sore back
C. sore right shoulder
D. right shoulder surgery
E. right elbow surgery
F. sneeze

Whoa, "sneeze" isn't a joke!

i'm not nearly creative enough to come up with that on my own!

Rod Barajas led off the 11th with a base hit off Brian Bass (0-1). After Travis Snider popped his bunt attempt to the mound, Barajas took second on Marco Scutaro’s sacrifice and scored on Hill’s single to right-center.

OK, they won the game, but seriously, WTF? Why does Cito bunt TWICE in extra innings with the team's hottest hitters coming up? Is it because Snider is a rookie, so of course rookies should bunt?

Of course these questions are rhetorical because we know that Cito is a moron who will fuck this team ten times over before the season is up, unless he's blessed with Bob Brenly-style dumb luck.

calm down, calm down.
do you remember what happened with Snyders' earlier at bat? also with a runner on first? hint: it rhymes with "stubbleplay". he'd also pulled off a successful bunt earlier.

i was also going "wtf" with the double sac bunts tho - what's the point of getting a runner to second if you're giving up two outs? i'm more or less playing devils advocate because your Gaston hate-on is so ott!

i was at the game on friday night - you missed a good one man. when you gonna be back?

lol at this: it rhymes with "stubbleplay"

A strategy might fail once, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong move to make! Bunting is a poor strategic play in most situations.

I'll be visiting for at least a couple of weeks starting from Aug 7. This time I won't have a gf to tote around S. Ontario (at least, that's how things stand at the moment!) so that frees up a lot more time for baseball!

Maybe he was trying to ensure that Snider didn't hit into a DP so the player with the most hits in baseball could come up with a runner is scoring position.

The second bunt is same line of thinking.

i never liked Shawn Camp.

more like Shawn Can't - amirite?!

What the hell happened last night. Dude has a no hitter going into the 7th and both bullpens collapse like a barrell of collapsing monkeys.

ya - sending League (as much as i love him) out there for a second inning was obv a mistake.
just like Shawn Camp.

How many years have the Jays waited for League to turn into something even remotely resembling a decent major league pitcher? Time to give up on this guy, I think.

I mean, whatever great upside he used to have is obviously long gone, and the Jays have been assembling great bullpens out of scrap parts for a few years now (Brad Arnsberg rulz), so my tolerance for League has run pretty thin.

wtf?

Brandon League, mouthbreather

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-4-162/Baseball-s-worst--Ricciardis-.html

Neyer pointing out that hindsight is 20-20, amongst other things.

dumb list.

- J. Bartlett singled to shallow left center
- C. Crawford grounded into fielder's choice, J. Bartlett out at second
- E. Longoria singled to shallow right, C. Crawford to second
- B. Zobrist singled to shallow left, C. Crawford scored, E. Longoria to third, B. Zobrist to second advancing on throw
- C. Pena hit sacrifice fly to right, E. Longoria scored, B. Zobrist to third
- P. Burrell singled to shallow left center, B. Zobrist scored
- G. Zaun singled to shallow left center, P. Burrell to second

sux 2 b u

Scutaro explained?

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/8/27/1003671/five-win-wonder-marco-scutaro

Come on, Travis.

Bah.

Barajas swung at a pitch that was almost up in the 'T' of the header of PITCH ZONE.

What a crazy game:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290831113

it's good to know that they were saving all those runs from those close 1-run losses for an 18 run scoring orgy.

8 rbis for Lind alone!

Grilli/Strop is a GREAT bullpen 1-2.

1 hit.

OK, did Ruiz have his HR taken off the board? Must've, I tuned away and Jays still at "0." He missed a base?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2009/10/02/jays_gaston/

The on-field woes for the Toronto Blue Jays were plain to see this season, but what hasn't been obvious is a brewing controversy between the team's players and its iconic manager, Cito Gaston.

Sources from all areas of the organization have told The Canadian Press the dysfunction currently crippling the Toronto Blue Jays front office extends all the way down into the clubhouse, where there are major problems in the relationship between the players and Gaston.

Those who agreed to talk to The Canadian Press about the friction between the manager and his players would do so only if their names weren't used. Some players wanted to speak to senior team officials first -- and to avoid the news leaking at home in front of a large media contingent -- before putting their names to the complaints. But a series of interviews with front office and players done over the last few weeks indicate the problems are widespread and beyond the normal tensions that often build up between players and a manager over a long, losing season.

One player said there was simply "constant negativity" coming from the manager's office, while another noted that Gaston once said "there aren't any good players in here." Also at issue is Gaston's hands-off, in-game decision making -- a criticism that dates back to his first tenure as manager from 1989-97

The problems are so deep that when one player was asked how many others felt the same way, he replied: "Just about everyone."

ugh

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/10/500x_custom_1254523693343_barajas.jpg

Best news of the season.

xpost?
JP Riccardi fired after 8 years
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AjLrBtJQb779RBsHTB246TMRvLYF?slug=ap-bluejays-ricciardifired&prov=ap&type=lgns

Blue Jays fire GM Ricciardi 8-year tenure

27 minutes ago

TORONTO (AP)—The Toronto Blue Jays fired general manager J.P. Ricciardi on Saturday, ending an eight-year tenure marked by an inability to get past the Yankees and Red Sox and into the playoffs.

“This was a tough decision and a difficult one for me personally as I have enjoyed J.P.’s friendship and his perspective on the game,” said Paul Beeston, Toronto’s acting president and CEO.

“J.P. has put an incredible amount of effort into improving the team and he has brought along a number of great young players,” Beeston said. “However, I feel that it is time for a change and accordingly we have decided to move on.”

Ricciardi, who was also senior vice president of baseball operations, joined the Jays in 2001 and had one year left on his contract. The team posted four winning seasons and four losing ones under Ricciardi, never making the playoffs in an AL East dominated by New York and Boston.

Ricciardi was criticized for poor free agent signings and off-field missteps that overshadowed some productive drafts and other good moves.

The Blue Jays (75-85) are finishing out their regular season in Baltimore.

Ricciardi’s firing comes on the heels of news of locker-room unrest with manager Cito Gaston.

VictorRojas29 On Cito-the guy got credit for turn-around last year but he's horrible now? The guys honest & players sometimes have to look in mirror #mlb

OK bub

wwooooo - Ricciardi era is coming to a close!

NA NA NA NAH - NA NA NAAA NAAH - HEY HEY HEY ETC!

Really hope the Padres don't go get that guy.

I know next to nothing about Anthopoulos ... although I do like the idea of starting fresh with a young GM.

discus

i guess vernon wells' leading of a clubhouse revolt is one way to distract attention from the fact that the players whose OPS is higher than his include alexei ramirez, brandon inge, jeff francoeur, kurt suzuki, michael bourn, scott podsednik, and 127 others...

just 127? i'm sure there's some pitchers in the nl...

all i know about AA is what i've gleaned from his appearances on a few radio broadcasts. which isn't much. he at least seems like he's not full of shit 100% of the time. they were grumbling on the j's message board that he might be some ricciardi sycophant and we might not see a huge difference - but who knows.

it is now official - come back player of the year: Aaron Hill.

Bill K. (Long Beach, CA)

So if the Jays had done this in 2006, do you think you'd still be there?

Klaw (1:25 PM)

I'll put it this way: I left in 2006 because I could not work for Ricciardi any longer. What would have happened after that is anyone's guess.

i always forget law used to be a J.

so to speak.

o_o

Eddie (Milwaukee)

What was Steve Phillips thinking? Almost trading a 19 year old David Wright for Jose Cruz Jr.? Ridiculous.

Klaw
(1:42 PM)

I've been asked about that trade rumor for three years but never answered while Ricciardi was still GM. The offer was made, though; I was there when the call came in. It was the first time I'd heard of Wright, since I wasn't with Toronto in 2001 nor had I followed the draft when Wright was in it. JP's reaction was, "I'm not trading a major league player for some guy in the Sally League." And that was pretty much that. We had a chance to trade Cruz after that for Rafael Soriano, but JP refused to do it unless Seattle included Clint Nageotte, who, at the time, was a pretty hot prospect. It's weird; I can't remember some things that happened last week but I remember those conversations (over seven years ago now) like they just took place.

:|

AA speaks: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20091107_151806_11860

no huge revelations there and he said alot of thing that you'd likely hear from most GMs. his "plan" sounds fine and i guess we'll have to wait quite a few years to get an idea if he pulled it off or not. he at least seems heaps less douchy than JP.

and apparently working on swapping Overbay for Chris Snyder?!

ElAngelo (New York, NY): What team has the worst "best" prospect?

Kevin Goldstein: I think it's going to be Toronto.

WE'RE #1! WE'RE #1! WE'RE #1!

You'll also be getting Jason Giambi if Ben Reiter at SI is right...

sweet jesus. (i assume they're referring to Snyder above?)

Does Snider still count as a prospect? (i.e. he already has big league playing time in parts of two seasons)

if the rumours are anything to go by - the next few weeks are going to be pretty nuts for the J's:

• Halladay going to either the Dodgers, BoSox, Yanks or Angels (hello bidding war between Boston and NY!)
• moving Overbay... somewhere
• signing a new new catcher
• aquiring a new SS (not named John MacDonald) since it looks like Scutaro is gone
• maybe moving one of our late inning bullpen arms

i know i shouldn't put too much weight behind rumours and speculation, but it looks like at least 3 of those things will be happening for sure. will be a much different team in '10 - with 1B, SS, C, closer and our #1 starter all up in the air.

You're after Torrealba, I read. I think it'd be a decent move for everyone.

Torrealba is a career back-up catcher, why on earth anyone would be "after" him esp now as he approaches his mid-30s is kinda O_o.

you're looking at a team that gave Rod Barajas 449 plate appearances last year.

trading halladay to the yanks or bosox...is it a pre-emptive strike, taking advantage of what may be inevitable? or is it resigning oneself to being totally non-competitive for the next 5-7 years? both?

a little of both i suppose. it sounds as if he's gone no matter what after '10 - so why not get what you can since the Js aren't expecting to be competitive anytime soon. and lets face it - the best way to raise the price is with a dice-k-esque yanks/bosox bidding war.

well then. new SS is Alex Gonzalez?!
oh well for 2.75m i can't get too bent out of shape.

Signing a mediocre shortstop named Alex Gonzalez? I thought this GM had new ideas?

i read that he was offered 3 mil from Boston, but took the J's offer because the BoSox were waiting to hear from other guys before they finalized anything. which pretty much means they will be taking Scutaro now - which means the J's will be getting a pick from the the Sox.
rather convoluted but interesting nonetheless!

not that i love these deals or anything. but i don't hate em either.

jays best hope is still to find a shaman kid possessed by the ghost of ty cobb