Barry Bonds: Approaching Willie Mays Standing in All-Time Home Runs

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Here's an AP article about Bonds performance in Spring Training, Alou seems to hint that Bonds looks ready to pick up from the last few seasons, possibly tying or passing his godfather/mentor in the first road trip:

Alou likes the way Bonds is swinging

One thing from the article that stood out to me:

The Giants open the season with a three-game series in Houston on April 5 and are scheduled to face Roy Oswalt, Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens. Bonds, 39, has never had an official at-bat against any of them, walking four times in four plate appearances.

Why the writer chose to ignore this pretty high profile incident is worth questioning, especially in light of michael jordan grouping the two together in his annual celebrity golf tournament:

    FACING THE ROCKET

    During the Giants' season-opening series in Houston, Bonds will bat against Roger Clemens for the first time since Clemens hit him in New York in 2002. It won't be their first meeting since, though.

    Bonds said the two were in a group together in Michael Jordan's celebrity golf tournament this winter.

    "I punched him in the chest and told him, 'Let's move on,'" Bonds joked. "When Michael put us together, I said 'You want a fight between the ninth and 10th hole?'"

gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 29 February 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

and then mj said "gimme five hundred on clemens"

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 1 March 2004 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...
revive.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

IBB'd in the first.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

clemens is one of the biggest cowards in the history of the game. i hope he gets his head torn off with a fastball.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

..as retaliation for tearing bonds' head off with a fastball.

this would be too perfect.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah yeah yeah, you're just riding high because mariano "robot" rivera got out of a huge jam against the d-rays... don't think i wasn't watching that action... ;-D

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck Barry Bonds. I hope a steroids rap breaks open tomorrow and he has to retire to avoid the press before he can break Mays' record.

I'm just counting the days until he retires or goes to the AL and DHes so I can root for the Giants again.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 8 April 2004 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

he has to retire to avoid the press

unlikely, cf: 1988-2004.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 8 April 2004 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

by the way gygax, how was that for low and outside, eh? (i thought they were both, erm, very borderline, to be honest)
do you have one of those directv league pass thingies? you lucky bastard.

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 8 April 2004 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

and "riding high" after that shit? c'mon, i'm a yankees fan! i've got standards, you know.

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 8 April 2004 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

those were cheap calls (well, the first one esp.) below the knee for sure and definitely on the black at best. i wish jerome williams had got those same calls. the best is mlb.com's game channel which shows the location of the pitch and they totally fudged it so as not to make the ump look bad.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040408/capt.hta11404080132.giants_astros_hta114.jpg

judging from bonds' eyes, the ball is about 5 feet in front of the plate (and dropping). if it had passed the plate at this height, this is right on the corner. but ausmus' glove dropped to about 12 inches above ground (this was a fastball, not a breaking pitch) and clemens looked surprised to get the call.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

HE DID IT

Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Times like this I wish I had cable!

Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, it was a 3-0 count and Kinney pitched to him anyway with two runners on base. WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?!?!?

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

leee, you could've watched it semi-live at mlb.com! (it's still on btw)

John (jdahlem), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

well not anymore.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i was pretty surprised they challenged him as well, and i'm very firmly in the "pitch to him!" category. obviously you don't want to move the runners over and load the bases, but there were two outs.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Hello Internet! (Alas, it's a paid subscription, and I'm cheap.)

Wasn't a cheapie garbage-time dinger, it puts the Giants up by a run.

Hello dramatics!

Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

no no no, they had it for free! i've been able to watch every bonds at-bat for the past week, which is great since bonds at-bats are about the only thing i find interesting about giants games.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 12 April 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I still don't see it. You don't mean mlb.tv right?

Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Monday, 12 April 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/events/bonds_660/index.jsp

rebecca romijn-stamos and john stamos have separated.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 12 April 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, just saw the replay; that's what you call a towering home run. Nobody mentioned that it was a McCovey Cove shot!

Broheems (diamond), Monday, 12 April 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

is gygax at the game? i can't believe he hasn't posted yet.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 12 April 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

bonds has been exploiting the shift in creative ways.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 12 April 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

If he had wifi on a laptop, he'd be able to post at Pac Bell!

(thanks for the link btw)

Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Monday, 12 April 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

haha John, I just got back from the game... 12:30am PST. The game has been over for about 9+ hours. I've got to be up in 6 hours. I just wanted to post this:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040412/capt.fxp10904122239.brewers_giants_bonds_fxp109.jpg

i love that picture.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 06:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Larry "Not That One" Ellison voluntarily returned the ball to Barry. Class.

I wish I remembered to catch replay of the torch passing thing, it sounded sweet.

Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

WOW.

Broheems (diamond), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow. Pardon the cliche, but there was no doubt about that one.

Maybe Ben Ford will want to try throwing something other than four consecutive 85 mph straightballs next time.

mattbot (mattbot), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

yea, that was a really really awful pitch.

barry's groundball/flyball so far: 0.29.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 05:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Dr. Morbius brought up this Rob Neyer piece on another thread.

I think Neyer is neglecting the mythology of baseball, here we have a modern immortal finally cracking the top 3 of a very exclusive club in a category which does not allow much room for error.

Sure Maris, Mantle and McGwire had huge HR seasons... but they didn't have the longevity which is making Bonds' legacy even more apparent.

But there is another reason for the hype: Bonds is controlling his image this year having backed out of the MLBPA. The proceeds from 660 related merchandise featuring both Mays and Bonds will go towards charities as well as a fund for Mays (during Mays' era, baseball players didn't command the enormous salaries of the players today).

Maybe 660 is more of a regional hype, but there are a couple reasons why it shouldn't be so easily forgotten.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

here's another one, yee-haw! (i haven't read it yet)
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lapchick/040414

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, just scanning it i see:
"In a racial context, history has not portrayed big, powerful, surly, white men as menacing or threatening."

i)i don't think bb is portrayed as "menacing or threatening" at all.
ii)even if that's not at all what the writer meant, then richard lapchick, i bring you ted's head on a platter.

hahaha, here's a caption under a photo of mcgwire:
"McGwire was tagged Big Mac. Bonds was known as a Killer B."

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Well that was a waste of a few minutes built largely on pr fallacies.

Somehow, we want to avoid what may be a real factor regarding the public's unwillingness to accept Bonds. He is a powerful black man who plays by his own rules, not the rules of baseball decorum or white social norms. He does not often share his smile with fans; instead, he is as likely to scowl or glare at those who approach him. To many whites, that fits a stereotype of African-American men as menacing or threatening.

UGH! This is worse stereotyping than David Duke is capable of.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

(sorry i put this in the wrong thread)

after reading the article, i will say that i feel it was at least written in good faith, which is not the vibe i'm getting from a lot of these accusations. it just wasn't very well thought out (AT ALL). i'm really still incredulous that he thinks bonds is perceived as "menacing".

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 15 April 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

>i don't think bb is portrayed as "menacing or threatening" at all.

I think he is... Not as much as Albert (Joey) Belle or Carl Everett have been, but Barry's public behavior can't match the nadirs of those two nitwits. I read at least one spring training column in which, after being peppered with BALCO questions, Bonds was portrayed as turning away and muttering "Get out of my locker." I see those kinda details about him compared to his former teammate/adversary Jeff (CHiPs Mustache) Kent, who apparently talked a whole lot more offensive (sexist, fag-bashing) shit to reporters.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 April 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

well, i don't think turning away and muttering "get out of my locker" is menacing, either. it sounds like typical bonds pouting to me. and what if he did exactly that?

your mention of kent is an interesting one and the reason i was sorry for dismissing the race issue. you mention of kent is interesting and the reason i was sorry for dismissing the race issue. i've thought that in some cases there may be a kind of disconnect between the media and non-whites (just latinos?), but i've always attributed it as much to the language barrier as anything else. i know in boston, it's thought by some that the media is biased toward trot because he's a "white guy who hustles", and against manny and pedro because they're hispanic. but what if trot really is just a harmless, likeable guy who hustles, and pedro and manny are every bit the characters the press (and their teammates) say they are? (i think they are) and barry and kent...jeff kent isn't winning 6 MVP awards, jeff kent isn't breaking the all-time home run record, jeff kent isn't widely considered one of the three best players in history - kent was in barry's shadow, surely. it'd certainly make sense that much more would be written about barry than kent. and let's say the press was horribly biased toward kent - maybe they disliked barry so much (for, we're going to hypothesize here, his general surliness) that when they found jeff kent was the perfect foil (kent hating barry, as i recall), they knew that writing anything negative about him was going to make barry look like less of a bad guy. wrong, definitely. racist, not necessarily.

it's just difficult to know what's motivated by race and what isn't, which is one reason i'm usually uncomfortable tossing out accusations like that. the other, in this case, is that i just don't read much baseball journalism.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

regarding pedro in boston, the press doesn't like him because he makes their job difficult. the fans love him. as recently as 2001 (last time i was back there) he was still held in the same regard as larry bird.

i don't know if comparing trot and manny is fair, they're two different ballplayers in terms of skill, expectations, and compensation. i think the manny situation is more similar to how wade boggs was treated. he's a talented guy who's villified because he's perceived as being selfish. the press in boston will eat any player (on any team) who puts themselves ahead of the team. ask boggs. ask ty law. ask antoine walker. when kevin mchale made overtures to the knicks in the mid/late '80s he was torched in the press until he reupped with the c's.

while i would never be so naive as to say there's not any racism in boston (though i will say i've seen more of it in chicago than i saw in boston) i don't think racism in the press is a problem.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

"McGwire was tagged Big Mac. Bonds was known as a Killer B."

Ahem... the Houston Astros have had the Killer B's for years now: Craig Biggio, Jeff Bagwell, Sean Berry, Derek Bell, Lance Berkman. All but one of those guys are white.

boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Sean Berry?

Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

boldbury seems to forget these corner outfielders from 86-91, the original Killer Bs:

http://www.kskssports.com/ksks_sports/baseball_mags/images/bm12_12.jpg

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

the funny thing about Barry's allegedly menacing image is that he ultimately seems like a nice guy who puts out this shield of being a dick. When he's not guarded he's more pleasant than most ballplayers.

Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never run into Bonds around town but a friend of mine who moved to the south bay was standing behind Bonds at a mexican restaurant in Atherton and was debating saying anything to him (he's about the same size as Bonds and is not on steroids nor a visitor to BALCO by the way). He eventually introduced himself and mentioned some obscure Candlestick trivia and said that Barry talked to him for about 10 minutes, all smiles and politeness.

The reporters who corner him into his locker (or step on his son's leg like that one reporter did) and get aggressive with questions... is there really anyone surprised when reporters get a reaction out of him when that's the end goal? It makes good press, of course they're going to keep instigating him.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.teddyballgame.net/articles.html

not really relevant, but since i brought him up, here's a long contemporary article about how williams was perceived, by the fans, players, managers, and media. i guess my excuse for posting it here is that i think a similar article on bonds would be fascinating.

a couple excerpts especially interesting today:

"He's been criticized for not going after the bad balls, but that's a theory of his and he stays with it." (recognizing the importance of patience and controlling the strikezone about 60 years before such philsophies would gain widespread recognition. of course, everyone today knows that ted was probably the smartest hitter of all time)

"There resides in Boston, a columnist for the Daily Record, Dave Egan by name, who over the years has been Williams' most persistent nemesis. Egan, is a vivid and often brilliant writer but in a feverish quest for the sensational, his typewriter often drips of vitriol." (remind you of anyone?)

John (jdahlem), Friday, 16 April 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Funny, but I've never held "putting out a shield of being a dick" with *the media* against athletes. I know most folks HATE Bobby valentine ("arrogance" etc),but I always enjoyed seeing him treat TV guys as stupid assholes since that's what most of them are.

Look at those twin Good Citizens, Jeter and A-Rod... are there two more boring interviewees alive?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 April 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

barry's batting .500 with a 1.265 slugging percentage.

you have to wonder if he's going to make a serious run at .400. it's about all he's got left to do. if he gets his typical 400 ABs he probably won't do it, but if misses enough of them for whatever reason, it could get interesting.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 19 April 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)


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