The 2006 Postseason Awards thread

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Torii "let me just dive for this rapidly-sinking baOH DAMMIT" Hunter; Derek "If I play out of position I can make myself look super-awesome with all this leaping and diving" Jeter win AL Gold Gloves

― nate p. (natepatrin), Friday, 3 November 2006 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

These awards are completely meaningless, why does anyone pay attention.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

1) Gives bored sonsabitches like me something to grumble about until the more interesting awards come out
2) Comedy purposes

― nate p. (natepatrin), Friday, 3 November 2006 19:38 (nineteen years ago)

Gold Gloves are a measure of a player's continuing defensive reputation around the league. It's kind of like the way the same TV shows get nominated for the same Emmys year in and year out. Reputation isn't meaningless. Like All-Star Game selections, it just is what it is.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Friday, 3 November 2006 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

(Some of) Jeter's defensive #s have also improved pretty dramatically in the last three years. It's not necessarily deserved, but giving it to him again this year is far from the crime it once was.

Also has Hunter really regressed that much (one botched post-season play aside)?

The rest of the picks (except for Mark Ellis getting snubbed) looked pretty good to me. Rogers/Rodriguez/Ichiro/Chavez are guys whose reputations and stats are both pretty stellar.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 3 November 2006 19:49 (nineteen years ago)

Also has Hunter really regressed that much (one botched post-season play aside)?

There was a pretty bad period for much of the summer when he was still recovering from his tweaked ankle and had obviously lost a step or two in the outfield. There were some plays in the series at Yankee Stadium where he didn't look much like his old self at all.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Friday, 3 November 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

"What about that googily looking freak over there? He's a shitshow at third."

― gear (gear), Friday, 3 November 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

At least Brad Ausmus' gold glove dispels the idea that there's a correlation between offensive and defensive stats.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Friday, 3 November 2006 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

Ausmus over Molina? That seems pretty suspect to me.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 3 November 2006 23:10 (nineteen years ago)

It's not a 1-1 correlation, but pop brings attention to the candidates -- see the '93 Giants when GG winners Kurt Manwaring and Robbie Thompson, who also happened to have career hitting years that year.

― c('°c) (Leee), Saturday, 4 November 2006 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

Ausmus is as bad a hitter as Molina is and isn't half the fielder at this point.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 4 November 2006 01:10 (nineteen years ago)

Even though I'm an Astro fan, I'm pretty dubious about Ausmus's getting the GG. He's still quick around the plate, fielding bunts and blocking pitches and he calls as good a game as anybody, but the guys arm is a wet noodle these days.

― boldbury (boldbury), Saturday, 4 November 2006 05:53 (nineteen years ago)

This is like paying heed to the Oscars.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 4 November 2006 15:34 (nineteen years ago)

bump.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Monday, 13 November 2006 23:15 (nineteen years ago)

Aw man, I know dupe threads get killed but there was some amusing Torre nonsense in that other one.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Monday, 13 November 2006 23:26 (nineteen years ago)

This'll p'bly look ugly:

"Joe Torre, Yankees: Despite that last statement, Torre has to be a close second. Year in and year out the Yankees spend far and away the most money on players. Thus, Torre is expected to succeed -- by the Boss, New York's demanding fans and the national media. But this year there were mitigating circumstances. You take Hideki Matsui and Gary Sheffield off the team early for almost the entire season with severe wrist injuries. You lose Robinson Cano for more than a month. You give a kid like Melky Cabrera a chance to play left field. And you patchwork right field until your general manager plucks Bobby Abreu from the Phillies. And let's not forget the starting pitching. Still, the Yankees have demolished the Red Sox this season and took their ninth consecutive AL East title. His disciples get all the credit and Torre takes most of the blame."

-- Plaxico Polanco (boompingpin...), November 13th, 2006 3:20 PM. (Andy_K) (later) (link)

What demolishing one team (that finished in 3rd, and did so thanks to no one but themselves, BTW) has to do w/ anything re: MOY beats the snot out of me.

-- David R. (quoteidio...), November 13th, 2006 3:29 PM. (popshots75`) (later) (link)

Yes but you have to consider this: "You give a kid like Melky Cabrera a chance to play left field."

-- Plaxico Polanco (boompingpin...), November 13th, 2006 3:34 PM. (Andy_K) (later) (link)

Melky Cabrera was the little teeny weeny red straw that novice drinkers actually use to sip their Bacardi & Diet Cola.

-- David R. (quoteidio...), November 13th, 2006 4:12 PM. (popshots75`) (later) (link)

Wait... 2007?

-- Plaxico Polanco (boompingpin...), November 13th, 2006 4:15 PM. (Andy_K) (later) (link)

don't look at me, i just put "Awards Season"

-- gear (speed.to.roa...), November 13th, 2006 4:16 PM. (gear) (later) (link)

STEVE SHASTA did it.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), November 13th, 2006 4:35 PM. (Alex in SF) (later) (link)

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

-- Steve Shasta (steveshast...), November 13th, 2006 5:02 PM. (Steve Shasta) (later) (link)

THE ADMIN LOG REVEALS YOUR LIES!

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), November 13th, 2006 5:14 PM. (Alex in SF) (later) (link)

― Plaxico Polanco (Andy_K), Monday, 13 November 2006 23:41 (nineteen years ago)

Oops:

AL rookie award sure to be a close race
Johjima, Liriano headline a bumper crop of young talent

― Plaxico Polanco (Andy_K), Monday, 13 November 2006 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20061113/capt.27c27249abda406485f197fd76c47239.dominican_republic_rookies_of_the_year_sdo102.jpg

― Pamplaxico Polancobon (Andy_K), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 01:18 (nineteen years ago)

No "meanwhile" shots of Verlander eating a bowl of Fruity Pebbles in his bath robe.

― Pamplaxico Polancobon (Andy_K), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 01:21 (nineteen years ago)

Close: He was washing his car.

― Pamplaxico Polancobon (Andy_K), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

Webb wins over Hoffman, Carpenter, and Oswalt. I can't imagine choosing Hoff over Carpenter or Oswalt. He pitched like 60 innings this year!

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

That is bonkers. Webb's a good choice. I wonder how many people voted before the final weekend.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 19:45 (nineteen years ago)

Is this the lowest starter win total in a non-strike season?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

Tied with Sutcliffe, who went 16-1 in 1984.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

Sutcliffe started that year in ...Cleveland?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 21:56 (nineteen years ago)

Okay non-strike or trade shortened.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

takashi saito received a third place vote?

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 14 November 2006 22:46 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, Sutcliffe's AL wins don't count in that total? That's dumb.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

In that case, yeah: Webb is the lowest, behind Pedro in '97 and Randy Johnson in '99, with 17 each.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 00:22 (nineteen years ago)

Santana ran the board with the ESPN experts.

Wait, Sutcliffe's AL wins don't count in that total? That's dumb.

They would've if he had been on another NL team.

― Pamplaxico Polancobon (Andy_K), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 00:57 (nineteen years ago)

yes, the award is for the league, after all.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Webb's win is a makeup for losing ROY to Dontrelle.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

except I don't think you'd catch any writers admitting they blew that one.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:01 (nineteen years ago)

I agree. I don't think writers have memories that are that long anyway.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

The image that accompanies this story is great.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

NL Manager of the year: (the unemployed) Joe Girardi
AL Manager of the year: Jim Leyland

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 19:44 (nineteen years ago)

Girardi is now gainfully employeed with the YES Network.

― Pamplaxico Polancobon (Andy_K), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

TLR is the only manager ever to win the WS and not earn a single MOY vote.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 16 November 2006 00:13 (nineteen years ago)

Santana, Wang, Halladay

How is Wang better than Halladay, how bizarre.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 16 November 2006 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

19 WINS TO 16, DUH. These are sports writers we're talking bout, 'member.

― c('°c) (Leee), Thursday, 16 November 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

Halladay IS better than Wang! They put way too much reliance on wins, apparently. the dude plays for the yankees ferchrissakes..

Wang -3.63,2CG, 76SO,1.31WHIP,1.46k/bb,wpct.760
Halladay -3.19,4CG,132SO,1.10WHIP,3.88k/bb,wpct.762 (roughly same IP)

― francisf (aaron ef.), Friday, 17 November 2006 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

Only 76 Ks? Dude's gonna get burned in a Derek Lowe stylee if he keeps that slap up (esp. w/ that defense behind him).

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 17 November 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

Santana is lucky he didn't have a buncha no-decisions.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 November 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

Yankee wins are a lot more important than Blue Jay wins DUH

Actually I really like Chien-Ming Wang and I laff at number-heads who call him a bad pitcher when really they are just mad at dad-stat-rock sportswriters. This is me: "Ha ha ha."

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 17 November 2006 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

Wang is forever throwing routine ground balls, yes.

― Pamplaxico Polancobon (Andy_K), Friday, 17 November 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think anyone believes Wang is a bad pitcher, but it's hard to believe that he can continue his current stellar numbers with so many balls hit in play.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 17 November 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

See: CARLOS SILVA

― nate p. (natepatrin), Friday, 17 November 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

Wang had a fine year... and let's see him do it again.

The writers getting the 1-2-3 pitchers as 1-3-2 is a lot better than they usually do.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 November 2006 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not implying Wang sucks, but it's glaringly obvious that no matter how many GO's one gets, it's always better to strike dudes out and get the grounders the rest of the time.

― francisf (aaron ef.), Friday, 17 November 2006 21:28 (nineteen years ago)

NO WAI. Ground-outs are more efficient! One pitch and BAM! Whereas you have to throw THREE pitches at a MINIMUM to stike someone OUT.

― c('°c) (Leee), Friday, 17 November 2006 22:30 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 72 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Or Joe Gordon over Ted Williams in '42

xp hello Jeff Brantley

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 06:29 (nineteen years ago)

No, Nate that sabermetric doohickey accounts for defense and park adjustments which is why Mize and McCormick are comparable and Versalles >>> Oliva and Lou Brock was a no power LEFT FIELDER who got caught stealing 33 TIMES and deserved a spanking basically and there were 2 or 3 players more deserving than Baylor OTOH there are maybe about ten more deserving than Morneau and two are on HIS own team.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 07:00 (nineteen years ago)

1) Zoilo and Oliva played in the same park, and Zoilo's fielding percentage was .950
2) Was McCormick that superior a fielder to Mize that it made up for a .150 difference in slugging percentage? Was Sportsman's Park any more hitter-friendly than Crosley Field?
3) OK, let's see: Santana, Mauer, Jeter... Ortiz? Guillen?
4) I pretty much went right out and said how goofy my opinion is on the '74 NL so STOP YELLING
5) Where do you stand on DiMaggio vs. Williams '47? Just so I know how WARPed yr outlook is.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 07:27 (nineteen years ago)

According to BP's numbers, McCormick was 20 runs better per 100 games compared to Mize, defensively. That (mostly, McCormick still down by .3) makes up for a rather, uh, large difference in hitting.

No one's advanced fielding numbers from that far back in the past are completely reliable (many of them can't agree on Jeter's ability five or six years ago, before The Fielding Bible, much less 1940), so I'd err on the side of the guy who could slug the shit out of the ball myself.

― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 07:52 (nineteen years ago)

Alex shouldn't even deign to answer the 1947 question.

― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 07:54 (nineteen years ago)

post-barry, a .500 OBP might not sound that exciting, but for God's sake man, etc.

― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 07:55 (nineteen years ago)

Meanwhile here is my list of hitters who I can accept are technically better than Morneau (excluding DHs, because if '05 Ortiz can't win MVP then no DH can, and wouldn't it be nice if writers were all bonkers enough to consider pitchers for the MVP, but let's just safely assume they're dolts in this scenario):
-Mauer
-Jeter
-Guerrero
-Ramirez

I mean it's kind of stupid and unfair that writers gravitate away from whimsical acronyms and towards dudes that (a) hit mad home runs/RBIs, (b) play a field position and (c) reach the postseason, even if their team gets spanked (not like Morneau's largely to blame; dude hit .417 and slugged a thousand in the ALDS) but Morneau winning isn't a frogs-kissing-pigs level of confusing.

And for fun, my list of dudes who I can accept are technically better than Mauer:
Jesus
Mohammed
Buddha (if dude learns how to hit to the opposite field)
Vishnu

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno, this debate is kind of a "Santa Claus is actually your dad in conjunction with Toys 'R' Us" experience for me here.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 07:58 (nineteen years ago)

Ted Williams should have won another two or three MVP awards (at least). Definitely '42 and '47.

Hey, you know who else was shitty in the first month or so of 2006? Rondell White! Juan Castro! Tony Batista! This guy! Now yeah there were a lot of things that had to click along with Morneau to get the Twins rolling -- Liriano, Punto, Bartlett, White no longer sucking after the All-Star Break -- but Morneau had a lot more to do with their mid-late season success than their early-season failure.

Morneau had more than just two great months ... I think an argument can be made that he was the best hitter in the AL from June onward (or at least in the top three). Of course one shouldn't just discount his crappy months, but whatever, the writers have obviously given him central credit for the Twins' turnaround (i.e. the Shannon Stewart effect). The thing is, Morneau had a breakout year and was legitimately outstanding for the last four months. Stewart2003 performed marginally above his career rates and wasn't that great at all. So Morneau's months-long hot streak actually means something.

My point is that if you're going to hand someone the MVP for getting hot down the stretch (hey, does anyone have Chipper Jones' month-by-month splits for 1999?) then Morneau is a reasonable choice. The problem is that handing someone an award for four months of great work (even though better players put in six months of great work) is silly.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 09:45 (nineteen years ago)

i'm in the morneau camp. fuck the haters.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

Meanwhile here is my list of hitters who I can accept are technically better than Morneau

Could someone please look at Grady Sizemore's stats for this year? I mean, the dude deserves to be in the discussion.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:28 (nineteen years ago)

Could someone please look at Grady Sizemore's stats for this year?

+: excellent defense, good XBH capability, some speed, scored a shitload of runs
-: .290/.375/.533 good but not amazing line; 153 strikeouts?!

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

Oh and like a knucklehead I forgot Dye in my list, but enh

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

Holy crap, check out Sizemore's splits:
vRHP: .329/.416/.586
vLHP: .214/.290/.427

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

Huh, hadn't noticed those splits! Crazy!

Still, his total stats compare very well to just about anyone, and unlike Jeter, he's inarguably a great defensive player. I'm not saying he's the best, and those L/R splits are troubling, but you can make a case for him.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:50 (nineteen years ago)

Great, a sports writer comes around to defending Morneau, and it's Jim Caple.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:54 (nineteen years ago)

travis hafner was much, much better.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

but grady gets the ladies

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

DHs aren't real baseball players, goofball

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

(obv. I am both joshing and bitter at the fact that the Twins had Jason Tyner as a DH at some point)

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

"at some point" = the last 2 months of the season!?!

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

Including two games of the ALDS! Seriously a dude who has never hit a home run ever as your DH even for a week is kind of rofflicious.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

I think the DH position was cursed for the Twins this year. DH Rondell = super-deluxe awful; OF Rondell = actually productive. Also in the DH spot: Jason Kubel and His Inflatable Knees; Phil Nevin (!); 27 year-old rookie Josh Rabe; Ruben Sierra for like a week and then he gets injured; a bunch of utility dudes and occasionally a crouch-fatigued Joe Mauer filling in the rest of the time.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11222006/img/front112206.jpg

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:07 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, the Tigers aren't yokels

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

EAT IT POST

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/575-BACK_LARGE.jpg

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, when you're on the same side as Lupica, you better make sure you're not standing on a land mine.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, when you're on the same side as the New York Post, etc. etc.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

FUN FACT:

Do you know the two 2006 MVPs combined made less than 800k?

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

Morneau's trophy should have one of those "THE NICE PRICE" CD stickers on it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I'm only really accepting this because Morneau's a Twin. I think once I sober up I'm going to wonder why in the everlasting fuck Mauer didn't win this in a cakewalk.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

RC/27 numbers are interesting:

Jeter: 7.58
Mauer: 8.23
WORST MVP EVAR: 7.92

Also Range Factor above league average:
Jeter: -0.05
Mauer: 1.26
SERIOUSLY IF I WORE A MONOCLE IT WOULD BE POPPING OUT RIGHT NOW: 1.2

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

Meanwhile, The Holiday Inn Vertically Challenged White Man Awards.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 20:22 (nineteen years ago)

PUNTO WAS ROBBED
DAMN IT

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

Range Factor is widely considered to be worthless.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 22:03 (nineteen years ago)

Alright

FRAR (Fielding Runs Above Replacement):
Mauer: 30
Jeter: 30
Morneau: 16

EQA (Equivalent Average - basically an adjusted OPS presented in % format like a batting average):

Mauer: .313
Jeter: .309
Morneau: .300

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe the travesty isn't Morneau placing first, it's Mauer placing SIXTH. Dude >= Jeter and got turded on.

I read somewhere that if the crazypants that put Jeter 6th on his ballot had Jeter-Morneau as 1-2 instead the MVP would've been a tie a'la Stargell/Hernandez. Which would've made a bit more sense actually.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:07 (nineteen years ago)

But hey how about K-Rod beating Nathan for the Rolaids award? CRAZINESS

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:10 (nineteen years ago)

K-Rod WXRL 7.301 vs. Joe Nathan WXRL 6.580 so NOT CRAZINESS.

― I love these ACRONYMS! (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:27 (nineteen years ago)

WXRL sounds like the shittiest radio station ever but I guess you can't argue with higher WHIP and worse K:BB ratio.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:36 (nineteen years ago)

Joe Nathan ARP 26.2 vs. K-Rod 23.9 though so PERHAPS CRAZINESS.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 November 2006 01:54 (nineteen years ago)

Not that any of this matters cuz isn't the Rolaids Relief Award based solely on saves (aka the lamest stat ever)?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 November 2006 01:57 (nineteen years ago)

I thought it was some W-L/saves formula.

i'm in the morneau camp. fuck the haters.
-- hstencil (hstenc!...), November 21st, 2006.

Who's posting under stenc's name these days?

Joe Sheehan thoroughly OTM on both MVP mistakes, with this crucial: "RBIs are a proxy for power and the OBP of the guys in front of you, and they do not, they have never, reflected specific skill beyond those figures. They're an accounting tool. So Ryan Howard and Justin Morneau can raise a glass to Harry Chadwick, because only in a world in which RBIs are tracked would anyone have alighted on them as the most valuable anything."

I still think Ordinary People is better than Raging Bull, btw. (I don't give a fuck about human monsters unless they're played by Mary Tyler Moore)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 November 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

I still think that the voters didn't pick Morneau based on his counting stats (which were not the best in the league). It's all part of the annual redefintion of "MVP" -- one year it's the guy with the best stats, the next year it's the guy who had a great year for a contending team, and this year it's the guy who "led" his team from a sub-.500 record in May to a division title. They voted for the story, not for the best player with the most impressive numbers. And since there had to be a "reason" for the Twins' success, somebody had to be assigned the primary credit for it.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 23 November 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

And they didn't get THAT right, either.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Thursday, 23 November 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

What I don't get is this "he's the third-most valuable Twin" argument -- you can talk about the theoreticals that would happen if Santana or Mauer vanished off the face of the earth at the onset of the '06 season, but all three players had roles so different (ace pitcher; contact-hitting/walk-drawing catalyst; power hitter with good average) and filled those roles so well that they all largely were dependent on each other for the team's success.

My feelings, after sleeping on it, are:

1) Morneau as MVP is kinda goofy but not "Gold Glove winner Derek Jeter" goofy (equivalent to that: Raul Ibanez winning MVP) and nothing to get an ulcer over
2) Nonetheless renegotiating his contract is gonna suuuuck now
3) Jeter wasn't robbed, Mauer was

― nate p. (natepatrin), Thursday, 23 November 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

They were both robbed. Jeter was probably slightly more robbed, I would have been okay with Mauer getting it.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 November 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

well sure the 3 Twins have different roles, but it seems incontrovertible that a catcher who creates runs at the rate Mauer does is more valuable than a 1b who does it at Morneau's.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 November 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

I know most of my arguments are kind of ridiculous, actually, and to be honest a lot of my Morneau defending is based largely on this:

http://www.freewebs.com/egautographs/DOUGMIENTKIEWICZ.jpg
http://www.baseballcardproject.com/Bowman/R/1992/360.jpg

― nate p. (natepatrin), Thursday, 23 November 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

(To me having a Twins first baseman that can hit for power and average feels even more amazing than damn near anything)

― nate p. (natepatrin), Thursday, 23 November 2006 17:36 (nineteen years ago)

Who's posting under stenc's name these days?

nobody. i just hate the post-vote hemming and hawing. a little analysis is good, but do i really want to know what the baseball writers think? nope, not really.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 November 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

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