Hall of Fame '07

Will Carroll has pointed this out, but it’s worth bringing up again: how can McGwire be so vilified for steroid use that has never come close to being proven, while Shawne Merriman is perhaps the most celebrated defensive player in the NFL during the same season in which he tested positive for steroids? The hypocrisy in the coverage of steroids in sports has never been so evident as it is today, the gulf between the media’s handling of MLB and the NFL wide enough to drive the truth through.

I would vote for McGwire for the Hall of Fame, because his accomplishments, his performance, warrant his induction. Whatever questions there may be about how he achieved what he did on the field are simply not answered well enough to void his claim to a spot in Cooperstown. But for the afternoon of March 17, 2005, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion, and I’m just not willing to give a grandstanding Congressional committee that much sway over my thinking.

The steroids-in-sports story is an embarrassment to the American sports media. The shaming of Mark McGwire is just another point of evidence that this is really about creating a story, rather than covering it.

But what if they are answered in the next 1-15 years? What's the problem with holding off voting him in if there is still a bunch of lingering questions about his "achievements"?

Also baseball fans being pissed at football fans because their sport is more under the limelight steroid-wise is pretty lame.

Yeah, but it's also intensely hypocritical.

Then again, there's the Hollis Thomas thing, where the dude was suspended for taking an inhalant for his asthma that had steroids in it... which he needs to uh BREATHE. He submitted it to the team doctor for approval, which was forwarded to the league for approval, and then the dude was suspended. Wtf is that about.

If you can't take steroids for genuine medical needs, the whole system is stupid and broken.

"In an attempt to uphold the Hall of Fame standards established by their predecessors, I will not vote for anyone who played in the 1993-2004 period, which I consider to be the Steroids Era," Ladewski wrote in an e-mail to The Sun last month. "That includes Tony Gwynn, Mark McGwire and Cal Ripken Jr."
"It's not an anti-Cal Ripken vote or an anti-Tony Gwynn vote; it's a vote about not knowing enough, in my opinion, of the Steroids Era and performance-enhancing drugs to make the kind of decision that needs to be made," Ladewski said.

"From my dealings with Cal Ripken Jr. in the past, he was very pleasant, a good ambassador for the game, and his numbers speak for themselves," Ladewski said. "But I don't have enough information on the [steroids] subject to make a decision."

what a douche.

Oh you do now, do ya?

I think the whole roids issue is really shady, but to say that it was the definitive reason for the hitting explosion is lame. Criminy, just look at home run numbers for '61 and '77 which were both expansion seasons and you will find some patterns.

Or why 2004 should be considered the "end" of that era?

Introducting new drug testing rules in a sport =! the end of drug-taking in that sport

result: Just Cal & Tony. Gossage up to 71.2 percent.

I don't begrudge people who don't vote for McGwire (unless they lie and say they're basing it on his numbers not being good enough, which is hilariously stupid), but I personally would not have any problems voting for him because for the most part I think steroids are a health issue, not a moral issue.

He moved up a bit, from 337 to 346. He'll almost certainly make it next year, thanks in part to the Red Sox's anti-sabermetric p.r. campaign. There's nothing like a little parochialism to justify one's faith in the power of objectivity!

(Neyer judges Rice inferior to Parker, Murphy, Jim Wynn, Ted Simmons, Raines, etc)

Jay Jaffe: Would I vote for McGwire? I honestly don't know. The numbers say yes. The lack of hard evidence -- a positive test, an admission, definitive proof -- says yes. The amount of circumstantial evidence surrounding him -- the andro, the Canseco book, Operation Equine, Congress -- makes me hesitate.

I'd rather defer the matter for 14 years, until we gain a better perspective on all of this stuff, then cast a ballot that I feel truly comfortable with.

Mark McGwire 128 23.5

Don Mattingly 54 9.9

YOU ARE WRONG

Cal Ripken Jr. 537 98.5
Tony Gwynn 532 97.6
Rich Gossage 388 71.2
Jim Rice 346 63.5
Andre Dawson 309 56.7
Bert Blyleven 260 47.7
Lee Smith 217 39.8
Jack Morris 202 37.1
Mark McGwire 128 23.5
Tommy John 125 22.9
Steve Garvey 115 21.1
Dave Concepcion 74 13.6
Alan Trammell 73 13.4
Dave Parker 62 11.4
Don Mattingly 54 9.9
Dale Murphy 50 9.2
Harold Baines 29 5.3
Orel Hershiser 24 4.4
Albert Belle 19 3.5
Paul O'Neill 12 2.2
Bret Saberhagen 7 1.3
Jose Canseco 6 1.1
Tony Fernandez 4 0.7
Dante Bichette 3 0.6
Eric Davis 3 0.6
Bobby Bonilla 2 0.4
Ken Caminiti 2 0.4
Jay Buhner 1 0.2
Scott Brosius 0 0
Wally Joyner 0 0
Devon White 0 0
Bobby Witt 0 0

Tony Fernandez: 0.7%
Dave Conception: 13.6%

Jim Rice: 63.5%
Albert Belle: 3.5%

(this is not to say that any of those four guys are necessarily HOFers)

http://news.theolympian.com/marinersMvNY/yankeesteam/photos/scottbrosius.jpg

oh yankeepaws

Concepcion's HOF credentials really aren't that bad (he's only narrowly below the HOF SS average.) Trammell not getting more votes is the sadder criminal thing here. I hope the VC puts him in.

this is from a yanks board. they threw in jeter & a-rod to add a little sabermetric perspective to the reflexive hyperventilation caused by an anti-jeter article on espn this past spring...

Player Career WARP3 Peak JAWS
Wagner 193.6 84.8 139.2
Ripken 165.6 86.2 125.9
Vaughan 127.9 87.4 107.7
Banks 129.3 84.3 106.8
A-Rod 118.9 90 104.5
Ozzie 135.5 66.2 100.9
Appling 129.9 71.5 100.7
Yount 131.9 67.9 99.9
Cronin 115.7 73.9 94.8
Boudreau 107.5 79.4 93.5
Wallace 115.8 58.8 87.3
Sewell 102.2 70.1 86.2
Reese 104.2 64.3 84.3
Bancroft 90.3 53.3 71.8
Rizzuto 77.4 60.3 68.9
Jeter 77.8 53.2 65.5

average HoF SS JAWS is 82.2?

anyways, surprised to see how far over the line cal is and far below it derek awesome is.

POS # BRAR BRAA FRAA WARP PEAK JAWS
C 13 425 215 70 95.7 59.0 77.3
1B 18 744 489 -9 106.1 62.8 84.5
2B 17 579 304 92 122.8 71.5 97.1
3B 11 668 385 69 117.4 67.3 92.4
SS 20 453 153 120 112.3 67.1 89.7
LF 18 752 477 7 111.1 62.6 86.8
CF 17 720 466 15 109.1 63.7 86.4
RF 22 795 519 36 119.6 65.4 92.5

CI 29 716 450 20 110.3 64.5 87.4
MI 37 510 222 107 117.1 69.1 93.1
IF 66 600 321 69 114.1 67.1 90.6
OF 57 759 490 21 113.8 64.0 88.9

Middle 67 547 283 77 111.0 65.8 88.4
Corners 69 751 479 22 113.5 64.3 88.9

Hitters 136 651 383 49 112.3 65.0 88.6