BOOOOO!!! (the 2007 Phillies thread)

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http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2006/08/08/qkOHLgoT.jpg

It's really all about Wes Helms, though, innit?

― j.q higgins, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 14:19 (eighteen years ago)

That is just a fantastic pic.

― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

All it's missing is Jimmy Rollins.

― Steve Shasta, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)

Baseball Prospectus suggests Phils ride Howard for all he's worth the next 3 years, as he's likely to age like Boog Powell (ie, not well).

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

certainly not helped out by the fact that they played around w/ him for so long...he's already 27 or 28, no?

― j.q higgins, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, he's 27. The Phils sorta fucked him 'cause of Thome.

― G00blar, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

such was the self delusion which characterized the ed wade era...

― j.q higgins, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

Weirdly it seems to have benefited the Phillies. They get Howard super-cheap in the majors for his best seasons (and at a point where he's clearly seasoned from all that AAA play.) It sucks for Ryan Howard though as he won't get to be a free agent until he's 30? 31? When he's likely to be past his peak.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

and someone like the Cubs will still pay him $150 million.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

though, his late flourish seems to have contributed to the perenial if-onlyism of philly sports fans. from whence this sense fo entitlement derives, i know not.

― j.q higgins, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 19:01 (eighteen years ago)

well, the jim thome signing SEEMED to make sense @ the time. remember, he was supposed to be the missing piece to get the phillies to the playoffs and beyond the year that he signed?!?

― Eisbaer, Saturday, 10 March 2007 03:29 (eighteen years ago)

isn't every phillies signing supposed to be the missing piece?

― the leglo, Saturday, 10 March 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

that was my recollection about the thome signing, too, and looking back on the parts they actually had at that time, what justified THAT expectation?

― j.q higgins, Monday, 12 March 2007 01:44 (eighteen years ago)

stephen goldman on the phils rotation:

"They currently have six starters and will need to shed one before the season begins. The top three, Non-Man of the Year Brett Myers (no, we’re not letting that go, not just yet, if ever), the perennially on-the-cusp Cole "The Brawler" Hamels (we probably aren’t going to let that go either), and Freddy Garcia (no arrests, no convictions, so he’s a bit out of place) should be good. These will be followed by Adam Eaton, who last had a good season never and can be injured by such disparate forces as ennui, schadenfreude, and onion dip.

The last starter, assuming that Eaton doesn’t undergo surgery to correct sad silent movie strain syndrome before spring training is over (the Phillies have banned Chaplin’s "The Kid" from team flights), will be one of two starters from the Foagy Brigade of Jamie Moyer and Jon Lieber.

It will most likely be Moyer—though he’s seven years older than Lieber and in baseball terms is so ancient as to predate the birth of the universe, Lieber cheesed off the Phillies by maintaining the shape of a donut shop last year. Despite this, because his expiration date is somewhat more recent than Moyer’s, he’s presumed to be the more tradable pitcher."

― j.q higgins, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, the phillies really have 3 starters who can pitch, and 3 starters that will make the bullpen a busy place.

― the leglo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

you could say the same about the mets, though. which means that there's SOME hope for this team.

― Eisbaer, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

but Pelfrey, Maine et al are really "known unknowns," to be Rumsfeldian about it.

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:42 (eighteen years ago)

That Phils rotation discussion is moot. Garcia's been pitching hurt and may get shut down.

― Steve Shasta, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:05 (eighteen years ago)

ew.

what eaton, moyer and lieber in succession?

dude.

― j.q higgins, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:10 (eighteen years ago)

[Removed Illegal Link]

― Eisbaer, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:41 (eighteen years ago)

Phillie Fan Pessimism

― Eisbaer, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:42 (eighteen years ago)

i'll get this right YET!

mayday in march

― Eisbaer, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

oh, to hell with it! just go here --> ATTYTOOD and look for the entry, "mayday in march"

― Eisbaer, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

seriously, though -- having a half-assed/woefully-incomplete pitching staff is a phillies tradition. even for the GREAT teams. think about it -- who else WAS there besides steve carlton, at least on a consistent basis? (you had larry christensen for a year or two, then dickie ruthven for a year or two, john denny for a while -- w/ no-name nobodies like randy lerch or bob walk).

― Eisbaer, Friday, 23 March 2007 00:49 (eighteen years ago)

it is funny. even going back to the jim bunning or robin roberts era, there's never really a bastion of great arms, though bunning seemed to have an able number 2 in chris short and roberts the same in curt simmons, but we're not talking johnson/schill, pettite/clemens/moose or palmer/mcnally/cuellar, here.

― j.q higgins, Friday, 23 March 2007 13:51 (eighteen years ago)

Can they really maybe not hit?

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 5 April 2007 20:43 (eighteen years ago)

It's Burrell's fault.

― David R., Thursday, 5 April 2007 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

one of the BP folk at their Columbia appearance suggested Burrell is the most hated Phil since Steve Jeltz.

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 5 April 2007 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

lollllllllllllllllllllllllll

― cankles, Thursday, 5 April 2007 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

re steve jeltz: a dead-ringer for eazy-e can't be ALL bad.

― Eisbaer, Friday, 6 April 2007 06:30 (eighteen years ago)

i dunno. i was amazed at how hated abreu was...not so much surprised about david bell hatred.

― j.q higgins, Friday, 6 April 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

oh, yeah...they really turned on rolen, too.

― j.q higgins, Friday, 6 April 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

1 right out of 4 ain't bad!

― David R., Friday, 6 April 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

So what you guys are getting at is, eventually, phils fans will hate everybody. if they don't already.
?

― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Friday, 6 April 2007 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

WHAT ABOUT JIM TH

― Steve Shasta, Friday, 6 April 2007 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

most of 'em. there are a few untouchables, though i suspect even schmitty and lefty carlton were booed back in the day. i don't really recall.

― j.q higgins, Friday, 6 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

they hated on mike schmidt & steve carlton = they'll hate on ANYONE. with fans like that, abreu & rolen didn't stand a chance; nor do utley, rollins & howard.

(and yes, i've been around long enough to know for a FACT that late 70s/early 80s phillies fans booed schmitty and lefty. sad, but true ;__; )

― Eisbaer, Friday, 6 April 2007 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

on the other hand, neither schmidt nor carlton were overly friendly to the press back in the day. they didn't make themselves EASY to love -- although schmitty DID get a little more chatty later on in his career (and that softened up the fans a bit).

back in the glory days, though, greg luzinski got MUCH more love than schmidt from the fans.

― Eisbaer, Friday, 6 April 2007 20:42 (eighteen years ago)

oh yeah, some non-news -- phillies fans acting like douchebags

― Eisbaer, Friday, 6 April 2007 23:44 (eighteen years ago)

at last thursday's game against atlanta, fans booed howard. it snowed during the eighth inning. the only time i've seen an uglier game, it was last year's home opener, at which all the things that happened on the now infamous college night took place...and all beer concessions in right got shut down before the 5th inning.

people are already calling for manuel's head. i proposed that beerleaguer.com develop a feature called manuel transmissions to document all of his boneheaded decisions, particularly when it comes to double switching. i'm so excited to see how gillick handles this one.

do i need to mention that zack "don't call me andres" segovia gets the start today?

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 8 April 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

wait, what?

it's too bad, really. by all accounts, manuel is a stand up dude, a plyer's guy and a good hitting instructor. just seems like managing a team is a bit over his head.

― j.q higgins, Sunday, 8 April 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

segovia got optioned right after the game!

i think that part of the problem is not only manuel's inability to manage the team [howard batting third?] but gillick's smoke and mirrors campaign to fill the stadium. it worked last year. thing is, the team on the field is still last year's team, with deeper problems.

a lot of people point to fan pessimism as the #1 problem in the philly market. as a philadelphian, i'd sooner indict the bully pulpiteering and small market thinking that pervades the front office. they spend money badly and aren't creative about those problems. we can't move burrell to a team that thought j.d. drew was a good investment at 70 mil?

[that said, i'll probably go to a game or two this week.]

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 8 April 2007 23:03 (eighteen years ago)

But the Red Sox have a BETTER version of Pat Burrell already!

― David R., Monday, 9 April 2007 13:37 (eighteen years ago)

the team to beat FREQUENTLY

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 9 April 2007 20:41 (eighteen years ago)

JTR,

Interesting comparison; however, JD Drew can actually play defense and doesn't strikeout every other AB.

Steve Shasta

― Steve Shasta, Monday, 9 April 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

dear shasta - you know i have completely illegitimate hatred for drew on account of the whole draft thing and all. i've been sympathizing with red sox fans lately since their team is sucking like the phils lately, and for some of the same reasons!

[poor cole hamels. this guy's gonna go on a tirade any minute. at least howard got off to a good start today.]

― fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 9 April 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

[poor cole hamels. this guy's gonna go on a tirade any minute. at least howard got off to a good start today.]

100% OTM.

(i also work in an office full of mets fans. ;__; )

― Eisbaer, Monday, 9 April 2007 23:21 (eighteen years ago)

the comments on beerleaguer are getting awesomer and awesomer. tons of mets trolls stroll in to gloat. i can hardly blame them any more. then again, you can barely hear them over the booing phils fans in the threads.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 9 April 2007 23:41 (eighteen years ago)

meanwhile in minnesota, bobby abreu is 3/4 tonight (including a 2-tun homer).

;__;

― Eisbaer, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 00:48 (eighteen years ago)

2-run homer

― Eisbaer, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 00:48 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 56 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

here's some of that phillies fan optimism: i fully expect to drop 2 games to the fish after this. but wow: every game in this series was a classic for us. i just wish we wouldn't play so much like an AL team.

on the local broadcast, g. dobbs said 'way to go, motherfucker!' to jayson werth on air. it was beautiful.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Thursday, 30 August 2007 21:58 (eighteen years ago)

that's awesome!

btw...greg dobbs is such a classic phillie. pretty happy he's basically supplanted wes helms.

really fun series. four game sweep is pretty sweet. as much grief as this team gets, i think it will be fondly remembered if it knocks the mets off.

― j.q higgins, Friday, 31 August 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

NO, NOT REALLY FUN

How many Philly hack writers are attributing the sweep to 'character'?

Man, the NL sucks.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 31 August 2007 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, really fun.

i could care less what philly writers think!

― j.q higgins, Friday, 31 August 2007 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

i wanted to think it wouldn't happen, but as predicted, phils drop 2 of 3 to the fish and it's back into a 4 game hole. ugh. it's hard to like the phils sometimes.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 12:43 (eighteen years ago)

this thread is aptly named. maybe morbs can see why Philly's a football town now. i see a blue and gold Frankford Yellowjackets throwback in my future.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Thursday, 6 September 2007 10:36 (eighteen years ago)

lolololololololololololololololololololo

― cankles, Thursday, 6 September 2007 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

The difference this year is that it seems sillier than ever to cheer for the hapless Birds.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Thursday, 13 September 2007 12:12 (eighteen years ago)

i still prefer the scenario where the phils have hopelessly lost the season, rather than this annual mindfuck.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 16 September 2007 03:09 (eighteen years ago)

This is really gonna hurt. I have tickets to see them against the Braves. Will the Nats take us down again?

― fukasaku tollbooth, Monday, 17 September 2007 03:43 (eighteen years ago)

I have tickets to the 25th. These events are all leading up to another year where they miss the playoffs by 1 game.

― zaxxon25, Monday, 17 September 2007 12:25 (eighteen years ago)

another sweep of the mets surely indicates that you are both correct. the fuck? i hate this team!

― j.q higgins, Monday, 17 September 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

I think I want the Phils in the playoffs ... 10-9 games every night!

I know that a Phils-Pads playoff matchup is a longshot (Philly wins the WC, SD their division?) but it would be the best pure hitting vs pure pitching playoff matchup ... ever?

― NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 17 September 2007 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

As a Padres fan, I think you're overestimating the Padres pitching by a lot. And for what it's worth, the Padres' hitting has been better than the pitching since the break. I think the staff is still as good as any National League team's, but I'd trade it for the pitching staffs of any of the four AL front runners.

― polyphonic, Monday, 17 September 2007 17:42 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, once you get past Peavy & Young & (sometimes) Maddux... but of course frontline pitching pitches more often in postseason.

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 17 September 2007 17:45 (eighteen years ago)

You have a point, and the Padres hitting is usually underrated because of their ballpark (a lot of people got on their bandwagon before the playoffs started last year when they realized the Pads had led the NL in road OPS). But in a short series, having arguably the best two starters in the NL is a huge asset and can offset other weaknesses of the pitching staff.

xpost!

― NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 17 September 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

Hey I'm not complaining, I like my team. I think Phillies/Padres would definitely be an interesting matchup.

― polyphonic, Monday, 17 September 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

wow...until this line of discussion, it had been quite some time since i took a look at the number son the phils starters. outside of hamels? yikes. kyle kendrick is positively trachselian (remember that dylan record?).

― j.q higgins, Monday, 17 September 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

oh goddamn Cardinals, those last 3 runs you couldn't manage after 11-0?

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 18 September 2007 13:22 (eighteen years ago)

I'm still pretty sure that we'll tank against the Nationals just like the Mets. 1 game out sounds just about painful enough.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Wednesday, 19 September 2007 10:17 (eighteen years ago)

Yadier rescues the Mets, aiiiieeeeee

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 20 September 2007 13:47 (eighteen years ago)

Whoa, Phillies are killing me. I'm gonna become like Frederick Exeley of baseball if this shit continues. Boo-yah

― dell, Friday, 21 September 2007 02:50 (eighteen years ago)

lol, Joe Sheehan:

"We all need to start mentally preparing ourselves for the idea that Lohse is going to get a five-year deal for $11 million or more per season."

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 27 September 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

and then there were two

― sanskrit, Friday, 28 September 2007 02:03 (eighteen years ago)

i actually had a dream a few nights ago, the phillies not only got to the playoffs but they also managed to get to the world series -- i woke up before i learned whether or not they won the world series though.

― Eisbaer, Friday, 28 September 2007 04:06 (eighteen years ago)

See my comment above. My pessimism persists, esp. after yesterday's game.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 15:48 (eighteen years ago)

I wonder what's going through Moyer's head right now.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 17:37 (eighteen years ago)

No 1st inning homer. Phew.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

Welcome to the National League Charlie!

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

It's fitting that someone would get injured in this game.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 19:02 (eighteen years ago)

J-ROLL!

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 19:52 (eighteen years ago)

Blast off.

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 20:10 (eighteen years ago)

OMMFG!!!!!!!!!

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 30 September 2007 20:40 (eighteen years ago)

HOW SWEEEEEEEET IT ISSSSSSSSSSSSSS ...

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 30 September 2007 20:41 (eighteen years ago)

No champagne in the clubhouse?

― fukasaku tollbooth, Sunday, 30 September 2007 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/rgin/freddie20mercury20820-20live.jpg

― Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Sunday, 30 September 2007 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

http://drewmac12.tripod.com/KewlPics/thumbnails/100x100/gay-spiderman-and-friends_1_.gif

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 30 September 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.ucis.pitt.edu/eehistory/Images/berlinwall-2.jpg

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 30 September 2007 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

YR TEH BEAST

― Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Sunday, 30 September 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

more spidey

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 30 September 2007 22:02 (eighteen years ago)

I'm 100% behind rooting for a Phils-Rockies NLCS.

― NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 30 September 2007 22:06 (eighteen years ago)

you like 15-12 games?

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 1 October 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

1) a series full of softball scores would be a fun change of pace
2) it's a fresh matchup
3) barring any emotional attachment to the playoff teams (usually the case with me and the NL), I always root for the matchups that the networks are dreading

― NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 1 October 2007 14:35 (eighteen years ago)

re 3, yeah, a Cleveland-Colorado WS wd kill them

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 1 October 2007 14:41 (eighteen years ago)

though, seriously? cleveland v. philly is also fairly unsexy as far as matchups go.

― j.q higgins, Monday, 1 October 2007 14:55 (eighteen years ago)

Gillick said that for many years he felt that talent was everything. But he said after watching Philadelphia overcome injuries and other adversity this season and overtake the Mets, he had concluded that talent was overrated.

Talent is important, he said, but what is more important is mental toughness, character, passion and the desire to win.

THAT'S RIGHT, EAT IT U SABERMATICIANS

― sanskrit, Monday, 1 October 2007 15:05 (eighteen years ago)

I thought Bill Rhoden was smarter than that...

Yeah, Brett Myers. Mr "Character." *SMACK*

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 1 October 2007 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

so it's the rockies ... we should be so lucky as to face jorge julio as often as possible.

― Eisbaer, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 04:25 (eighteen years ago)

Glimmer of hope remains for Rollins MVP, amirite?

― fukasaku tollbooth, Tuesday, 2 October 2007 12:14 (eighteen years ago)

four weeks pass...

jocampbell (Australia): How would an infield of Howard-Utley-Rollins-ARod rate historically, assuming none of them goes down the chute in the next 4 or 5 years?

Jim Baker: Cool question. It's cool because you get to picture Rodriguez taking shots at leftfield in that little place the Phils call home. Could he hit 40 home runs there in 81 games? He hit 26 at Yankee Stadium, so is that such a great leap forward? He probably still couldn't take down Bonds' single-season record, but it would be fun watching him try.

As for the infield as a unit, it would be fantastic. The other three are still in their twenties, after all, and Rodriguez, while older, has an extended prime owing to his greatness.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 17:03 (seventeen years ago)

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