now with $86 million more to spend on middle relievers - your 2011 Toronto Blue Jays!

just to recap:

new 1B: the old DH
new DH: the old 3B
new 3B: the old RF but at least this one has played 3B before
new RF: inert filler
new CF: slightly more cost effective
new C: was just traded - we're now back to the old new catcher
new manager: can only be an improvement
new opening day starter: is now a deranged Canadian infield prospect
new closer: first 500 people in attendance on opening day will get a shot

it has been a weird of season.

also - if anyone cares to continue the debate from the HoF thread about the 10 best all time J's - have at it.

Number one is this guy. Middle name is Bolt and is from my hometown. (Saw him pitch a few times but never faced him -- I was too young.)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/whitesh01.shtml

any new closer candidate is far and away better than octavio dotel..

hear, hear

He is not any worse than Gregg, is he?

The Jays have never had any luck/skill/karma in signing free agent closers, going back to the days of Bill Caudill laying a giant egg in the 80's. You'd think they'd have learned by now.

Gregg worked out alright, imho.

he wasn't light out or anything - but no one expected that.

discus?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/bluejays/article/930115--griffin-jays-top-10-most-important-trades?bn=1

It's a Richard Griffin column, so don't expect anything approaching intelligence. There can be no discussion about #1, all the other spots are up for grabs IMO.

The Jays haven't made all that many big trades, so most of these deals would make the top 10 because there aren't a lot of other choices. It's also hard to compare the "importance" of salary dump trades like the ones for Wells and Randy Myers with trades for actual players who are expected to make an impact.

Haven't read the text, but one omission that jumps out at me was getting Cone in '92. Not a lot of long-term value there--he went 4-3 down the stretch (pitched much better than that) and started four games in the post-season, but surely getting that first WS win was much more important than Eric Hinske's tenure in Toronto. The Jays had a great team in '92, and maybe they would have won without Cone, but I remember how psychologically important it was when management went out and got him that summer.

Here's the complicating factor, of course: they gave up Jeff Kent in the deal. With Alomar already in place, would Jeff Kent have gone on and had the career that he did if that trade hadn't been made? I don't know--but I'm guessing if he wasn't part of the Cone deal, he was going to be shipped out in some other trade.

A little more context for something that seems absurd on the face of it--that 12 games of David Cone was worth Jeff Kent's HOF career.

For anyone who remembers that time well, the Jays had a reputation as post-season washouts by '92: blew the '85 ALCS, folded up in '87 before even getting to the playoffs, exited playoff series quietly in '89 and '91. The biggest step in getting past some sort of psychological barrier that had started develop was obviously the Alomar trade a couple of years earlier; the final step, for me, was the Cone trade. I remember clearly how stunning that trade was at the time; it was like, "Whoa--they really want to win this." I can't point to any numbers that prove they wouldn't have gone on to win in '92 without Cone, but intuitively I suspect that season would have ended in another playoff loss to Oakland. And if they don't win in '92, maybe they don't win in '93 either.

Because of Alomar, Kent's days in Toronto were numbered one way or another. And even there, he still had to pass through two more teams before he really found his way. Linking Kent's time in San Francisco to the player Toronto traded away five years earlier is as tenuous as linking the fall of the Soviet empire to money spent on Sputnik...Not that anybody'd actually be dumb enough to make the Sputnik connection.

You're right about the Cone trade -- the list is supposed to be the "most important trades", not the "most lopsided trades that came out in the Jays' favour". The Cone trade was huge, as was the Rickey Henderson trade the next year (although Rickey didn't play well so it doesn't belong on a list like this ... amazing to think that they Jays used to be the team with the highest payroll in MLB and were renting big stars to win championships).

In all my years of watching baseball, I think the single biggest mystery to me is what happened to Rickey Henderson on that flight into Toronto in '93. You can draw a line right through his career before and after the trade, and it's just not the same player. His numbers in Oakland for the first 90 games of '93: .327/.469/.553; the rest of the way, .215/.356/.319. And while he hung around for another decade, he was a different player--still effective at scoring runs, but not Rickey Henderson.

I know he was 34 when he came over to the Jays, and decline at that age shouldn't be surprising. But it's amazing how sudden it was, and how perfectly the decline phase of his career lines up with the exact moment of that trade.

Oh--and I still love how after the Henderson trade, WAMCO (White-Alomar-Molitor-Carter-Olerud) became HAMCO!

Geez, just realized: now that Alomar's in the HOF, how many teams ever had Hall of Famers filling the first three spots in the order? It's probably not as uncommon as you might think--there must have been at least two or three Yankee teams, the Dodgers from the '50s, Reds from the '70s, etc.

Maybe it is as uncommon as you'd guess. I'm only going by the lineups for the opening WS games, but the '27 Yankees (Koenig), '36 Yankees (Crosetti), and '53 Dodgers (Gilliam) all had non-HOF'ers batting either first or second. The '75 Reds led with four: Rose, Morgan, Bench, Perez (even though Rose, Griffey, Morgan, Bench, Perez might have made more sense). I guess this needs a separate thread, but can anybody think of any other teams with HOF players batting 1-2-3?

Happy 43rd to Roberto Alomar. Insert Jamie Moyer and Omar Vizquel jokes here.

The '95 Indians would usually lead off with Lofton-Vizquel-Baerga -- two possible HOFers (YMMV) and a guy who was considered by many to be as good as Alomar in the mid-90's. Then they'd send some combination of Belle-Murray-Winfield-Manny-Thome, in total, a lineup with six or seven HOF-calibre players. I'm not sure we'll ever see the likes of it again.

a lineup that had three eventual 500 HR hitters (one of them almost definitely 600+, another one possibly so), another guy with 465, and a fifth w/381.

so i guess we know now what the J's planned on doing with the money they saved on Wells.

i'm hoping the $65MM over 5 years isn't true. this could be bad.

dude had a career .72something OPS before this past season..

wow. i think i read some where that bautista has a 5.9 career WAR, 5.6 of which comes from last year. he'll totally repeat, right?

jparencibia9 jp arencibia
Cant believe I haven't shared with my twit fam my special bed for spring training.....
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jparencibia9 jp arencibia
That thing even looks fast! Watch out!! http://yfrog.com/gzugmnnj
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now with $21 million more to spend on middle relievers - your 2011 Toronto Blue Jays!

now with $86 million more to spend on Bautistas - your 2011 Toronto Blue Jays!

Man walks into nine-foot metal spike, the spike ends up lodged in his brain for six or seven years. He finally manages to remove the spike. Next day, he walks into nine-foot metal spike all over again. But, as they say, such are the realities of the marketplace.

at least this one's like half the size

I'm trying to stay positive about this. If he hits 35 HR/110 RBI with a 900 OPS this year, then it would have taken Jason Werth money to sign him past 2012, so maybe the Jays know something we don't. I hope.

xpost: True...Jose Bautista: the Jays' new four-and-a-half foot metal spike. (I'm being silly--like No Time, I really do wish him well. I'm not confident at all, though, that the contract will yield 125+ home runs, much less the 175+ that would be the floor for justifying the amount.)

i don't foresee an obs above 900. i think mid 800s, if i was a betting man. which isn't terrible, but a bit of an overpay.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/jose-bautista-cashes-in/

there are some ludicrous statements in here but maybe it will make you feel better!

aside from the bit about Casey McGehee - seems fair enough.

If he can be a 30+ HR guy it might not be a bad deal.. Power is hard to come by and it seems that in the 'post roid era' or wtf you want to call it thumping 3Bs are less common than they used to be.

The idea of Bautista being "a fan favorite" and "the new face of the franchise" is super weird to me. But he did have a great year.

so apparently Brett Lawrie is being moved to 3B! and is hitting (with token small sample size acknowledgement) up a storm in spring training. hopefully he works out at the hot corner and we'll see him in the bigs part way into 2011 - Bautista can move back to the OF and Juan Rivera can sit down!

He looked really good when I saw him on tv on sunday, i'm pretty excited about him. Apparently his defense has been looking great this spring as well

i just read this piece about Lawrie which throws some water on his performance so far :s

It sounds like he is expecting him to bust, which is possible, but I'm going to trust the majority on this one that he's closer to a top-50 prospect than 101-125

So Rajai Davis is hitting the ball pretty hard in spring. Clearly this is a mirage?

I could see him developing more gap power but he's never gonna be a slugger.

agreed. i think the best way for this guy to improve would be to just get on base/walk more.

jp leading the majors woo

Thermo, did you go to the opener this year?

I missed this, just heard the report. Here's something weird: I saw Wire last night, and at one point Graham Lewis said, "You'd think you'd won the Series already" (one of about three instances of patter all night). I now have to search all my Wire albums for hidden baseball references.

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/999143/209068_twins_blue_jays_baseball.jpg
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/999143/209068_twins_blue_jays_baseball.jpg
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/999143/209068_twins_blue_jays_baseball.jpg

i couldn't get tickets! i'm going to sunday's game instead.

watched the game at a friend's place and wow. what an opener.

xpost hah ah ahahaha

btw, this play:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/2333281/209062_Twins__Blue_Jays_Baseball.jpg

Just looked up my grade 3 journal specifically to get this:

http://soupofturtles.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/rob.png

Monday/30 - never forget

Speaking as a grade-school teacher, love it!

(Your teacher was kind of short-changing you on the commentary--I respond with at least three or four sentences for my grade 6s.)

xxpost: It'll be the 15th anniversary in a few weeks!

How many times have the Jays been blown out by the Red Sox this year??

best not tho think about it.

last night's game was interesting for the first half at least.

I'm glad Wakefield ended his tortuous quest for 200--hopefully he will now go quietly into the night.

i just wanted to point this out: in 458 PAs, batting usually around 7th or 8th, JPA has accumulated 78 RBIs - while batting only .222 (but SLG .453).
is it just me or is that a really impressive amount of RBIs when you consider everything else?

what're the OBPs of the guys hitting 5th/6th?

revolving door - but Encarnacion was one of the main ones, to give you an idea.

Has the Jay's decision to go back to a similar version to their original blue jay + maple leaf logo been discussed?

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/bd/bd5023267a32f9f84aeb4ee6fef89f40/another_logo_leak_blue_jays_new_design_looks_familiar_and_sweet.jpg

i'm still taking in the news. mixed emotions here.

like the darker blue and more detailed brow - but the leaf is way too big.

is this just an alternate tho? they haven't even had the current so-so one for all that long.

Didnt read up on all the details, just basically saw the image and heard about a change. I kinda hate the new-ish versions so Im down with this..

Now we just need to change the brewers back..

YES!

AND THEN HAVE THEM SQUARE OFF INT HE WORLD SERIES.

They might have spoiled the Angels' playoff chances yesterday. Today they might have done the same to the Rays. Nice.

I don't know...we used to win World Series. I know that a couple of games above .500 is better than 10 or 20 under, but they've been on this treadmill for almost 20 years now.

while treading water for the last 10 years isn't exactly a reason to throw a party, i'm glad that for the last decade i've had a ball club in town that the odds are beter i'll see them win rather than lose if i go see them play. even under Riccardi we had a quality team that was competitive in the toughest league in baseball. what i'm saying is at least we're not the Pirates or Royals!

I know what you mean, but--and I'm not trying to be jaded, or pull an I-was-there-when--I just can't get the least bit excited by this never-ending string of okay teams, or feel anything if they happen to knock a couple of teams out of contention. If I were in Pittsburgh or Kansas City, I don't think my interest level would be any different.

"even under Riccardi"

MONEYBALL!

Who's comparing this to winning the WS? It's fun to see them winning games and playing the spoiler for other teams. That's all.

Why did the Blue Jay get a nose job?

Beak job rather.

New logo is sharp IMO.

the leaf is a bit on the large side.

Honestly: the only time I can ever imagine enjoying being a spoiler would be if you were knocking a hated rival out of the playoffs, like the Dodgers did to the Giants that one season about ten years ago (beat them 11-0 or something). I would have enjoyed knocking the A's out of the playoffs during the LaRussa years; I hated the A's then. But knocking out Tampa Bay? I really admire what they've done the past few seasons, and I'd much rather see them in the playoffs than the Red Sox.

me too, i hope you guys lose!

well on our way!

recent Blue Jays departures that will be in the playoffs:
Lyle Overbay
Aaron Hill
Johnny Mac
Shaun Marcum
Roy Halladay
Octavio Dotel
Marc Rzepczynski
Corey Patterson
Mike Napoli

Which guy is not like the others?

Two guys who drove me crazy, Overbay and McDonald, which goes to show you never can tell. I think.

or it shows that you can still make the playoffs if you kinda suck

Mike Napoli was on the team for about half an hour

and it was amazing.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2011/09/30/mendes_jays/

Written by an old friend (we grew up together in elementary school). He's part of why I was such a massive Expos fan, and I remember him being bummed about the Carter trade.

mike napoli was 8th in WAR among AL players this year (in 113 games!)

Behold!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/new-toronto-blue-jays-logo-released-photo.html

i'm so happy that all these teams are going back to the old logos

the leaf is WAY too big - but overall i'm pretty happy about this.

Does this mean that BJ Birdy will be back next season? And the ORIGINAL Blue Jays theme song, not the shitty 90's remix??

I want Fergie back--I think I was his only fan.

wish they'd used the TO font for BLUE JAYS as well -- the whole white-line-in-the-middle thing is way too NASL

do not know what nasl is, but disagree.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dIkeIzr_jl8/TsaJGMNICnI/AAAAAAAAAI4/98SHOQSq8iw/s1600/bluejaysnotes.jpg

literally every single point off the money

yet still better than the previous one

No new Jays thread, so I'll post this here--just speculatin' about a hypothesis (skip to bottom).

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/20509/joey-vottos-future-early-speculation

i had never seen that logo-flaw graphic before.
what a pile of horseshit. only maybe a couple of points are valid and some are completely idiotic.

where did that come from?!