Dusty on a 1 yr. deal vs. Votto on a 10 yr. deal - Reds 2012

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-04-02/cincinnati-reds-joey-votto-contract-extension-200-million

Hard to believe, but it looks like the Reds might have actually signed Votto to a long extension.

Maybe too long...10 years is a long long time. Yikes.

On the one hand, I'm excited, but the other hand, I remember when they brought in Jr. and signed a huge extension.

Relivers and vet utility guys are going to get some work...Dusty is on a 1 year deal, which means more pitching changes than you can shake a toothpick at.

why the hell do teams agree to such things?

i tend to think it's a better deal for the team than pujols' or prince's, but still too long

looks like Keith Law agrees

In the short run (3-5 years), Reds do have some nice nucleus of young talent now tied up for a few years.

I think the big loser in this Joey Votto signing is Brandon Phillips, as there is no way the Reds can sign him to what he wants, which is more than he is worth.

I just didn't think the Reds could actually get it done with Votto, it looked like he was going to check the market. I think the contract numbers are insane, but really based on the market. I'd probably tried for like 6-7 years with more per year, but that probably wasn't an option.

where could JV go except for other teams in the NL central?

cont: who could give him that kind of deal?

the real question is why anyone would want to stay in cincinnati that long

^

a lot of people would have wanted to see him in a J's uniform.

could the j's do that kind of deal?

they might have broken their recently concocted 5-year rule for the hometown kid, but i could not see them going 10 yrs.

ownership has they money tho.

25M per knocks out half the teams at LEAST. LAD, NYM are money fucked for the foreseeable future. lose NYY, Sox, Angels, SF (belt lol), Mariners (soon to be Jesus imo). That leaves CHINL, St.L (MAYBE), maybe the astros but why would he go to houston... idk

When does helton come off the books?

Include philly in the lolmoneyfucked/NYY continuum

huh. according to baseball reference Helton is earning 5m in 2012 and then another in 2013.

could be worse I guess

Colorado would love Votto but it's not going to happen, ever. The Dodgers are the ones with the cash now, so I'm thrilled if he signs with Cincinnatti.

I really want to see the Reds run Chapman out there for a few starts, but for now he's relegated to the 'pen. Is it going to take an Arroyo injury/Leake shoplifting charge to get Alrodis in the rotation?

this is likely a direct result of the dodgers new ownership group

it's a nutso deal but it's pretty understandable why franchises do such things

Is it going to take an Arroyo injury/Leake shoplifting charge to get Alrodis in the rotation?

― Playoff Starts Here (san lazaro), Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:29 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

getting rid of dusty would prob help

is dusty more likely to destroy his arm in the rotation or the bullpen tho

dusty isn't the one holding aroldis back... that's all the front office

Yeah seems to me that Dusty would love to run Aroldis out there 7-8 innings a start, 2-3 times a week.

Dusty has been pushing for Chapman to be in the pen.

THey have Chapman on a 150 inning ceiling this year, so he will start in the bullpen the first couple of weeks until Bill Bray gets off the DL. That seems to be the plan from what I understand.

It's good to see that Dusty hasn't changed. It only took till game 3 until he almost managed defeat out of the jaws of victory with his great bullpen spidey sense.

Hey Dusty, with our starters (esp. Arroyo, Bailey and Leake), it's the seventh, you better be getting ready to go to the pen. Dude is stretching Arroyo in start 1 like it's a late August start on a 15 day road trip. Does he pull him with no one out and runners on 1st and 2nd up two? NOOOOOOOOO! Got to wait until it it's 5 to fxxxxn 4 only to again have the bats bail his head out of the ground.

At least he waited until there wasn't any runners in scoring position before going to the pen, usually he would wait until the bases are loaded with 1 out and freaking Fielder or Pujols or freaking Chipper Jones at the plate THEN go to David Weathers or Nick Masset and say 'have at 'em boys'.

reds locking up brandon phillips too.. kinda reminds me of philly going on a huge spending binge. will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

phillips contract is ludicrous

long term deals to 2b is a bad idea. then again my team signed 36 yo mark ellis to a 2 year deal so I have no legs to stand on when it comes to pointing out dumb contracts.

i would give a long term deal to plenty of 2B (well maybe not plenty, but a few) but brandon phillips is certainly not one of them

yea like cano is gonna get a monster deal nxt yr, deservedly so

It's too long a deal and they all are for too much money, but it really is pretty budget neutral as just extends what they already are paying BP for this year for the next 5 (as the contract includes this year).

If he stays healthy, I figure it will work out Ok and so far Brandon Phillips has been pretty good about staying on the field. I'd think it a safer deal than what the Marlins gave Reyes.

Phillips probably doesn't hurt to have around in terms of marketing. Very charismatic dude.

congratulations to the cincinnati reds on their 10,000th victory

@DallasLatos
I left cookies & a love note and came home to him snoring, oven on & pizza box on the counter.

I'm glad I was working and didn't get to see the 9th inning debacle yesterday.

@DatDudeBP
#RealTalk... Hope @JamesZ53 @NeilWalker18 @TheCUTCH22 @jhay_da_man don't play that #SLAW music again... PLEASE!!!! Also, #BUCN is #SUPERWEAK

@TheCUTCH22
@DatDudeBP u musta left ya h8terade at the hotel...drink up busta!

@DatDudeBP
@TheCUTCH22 LOL... Awwww I'm sorry!!! I will bring you some soup & medicine since my poor baby has the FLU! #BUCNDeezNuts

@TheCUTCH22
@DatDudeBP haha aint u too old to b talkn smack over the internet.#GrandaddyBP

MLB Public Relations ‏ @MLB_PR
Season stats for Aroldis Chapman: 18.1 innings, 0.00 ERA, 12 baserunners (6 hits, 5 BBs, 1 HBP), 32 Ks. @Reds

Not sure where to post this, but the Reds thread seems as good a place as any.

The first film in ESPN's new "30 for 30" short films series is about Pete Rose and his full-time gig in Las Vegas:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7930049/another-30-films-subjects-stories-captured-our-attention

wow #BUCNDeezNuts is still a trending topic

It will be a waste if the Reds don't actually try to use Chapman as a starter. Although right now the pitching staff is carrying the team and the starters are all doing real well.

That said, it has been pretty bad ass the last couple of games when they use "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" to play Chapman to come into the game. There was definitely a buzz when the Missile came in on Monday that's usually just not there on a weekday home Reds game.

That said, having AC start could still happen. They set a 150 inning limit on him for the year, so even if they did want to use him as a starter, I'd think it might not happen unless someone gets hurt or perhaps after the all star break. He's at like 23 innings and at current use might be about 35-40 going into the all star break. Going by that Chapman could start 13-15 games in the second half and have enough in the limit to be available for the playoffs.

I'm sure he will be at some point, but it may be like the Rangers w/ Feliz, they may decide he's "too valuable" to be a closer or whatever and not use him to start until his deal w/ the Reds is almost up (whenever that is)

Reds starters keep getting it done, it might not happen this year. I think with the Reds losing Madson and Masset in spring training and Bill Bray going down in the first few days of the year, the bullpen has held up well. Logan Ondrusek and Jose Arradondo have stepped up quite well.

http://deadspin.com/5914292/reds-third-baseman-todd-frazier-is-quickly-becoming-a-folk-hero

http://deadspin.com/5914933/reds-third-basemansuperhero-todd-frazier-has-been-crafting-his-legend-for-years

http://deadspin.com/5915467/todd-frazier-can-do-anything-better-than-anybody

Did Dusty make the call for Votto to attempt a drag bunt while tied in the seventh?

Well, Votto (who hit a three-run HR earlier) botched the bunt attempt and then struck out.

Dusty is such a drag. I bet he is an ok dude, but the Reds are in first place and its like NO FUN as Dusty does some totally dumb sxxx every game that just makes you want to throw a brick through the TV. To be fair, Dusty has been a bit quicker on the hook with the bullpen this year and not waiting until the bases are on fire before making the change, but part of that is just the pitching has been really good and the bullpen outstanding (exceptional if you consider really three of the big guys Madsen, Bray and Masset have been pretty much out all year).

Plus he still is an ex-Dodger from those 70s clubs which means he has NO reason to be managing the Reds.

Votto is a freak. The guy has that Tony Gwynn/Wade Boggs zen thing happening where he seems like he is like two steps ahead of the pitcher. Joey swings and misses a bit more than those other guys but he also has way more power. AND IF DUSTY WOULD EVER swap around his lineup at 1 and 2 to put some people that can get on base more than at a .295 clip, maybe Votto would be able to drive in some more runs or not be able to be pitched around and can actually get some pitches to drive out.

I swear you look on Reds fan sites and you would think we were like a half dozen games below .500, people just grit and spew on all of the dumb things Dusty does. And the angst is there, as they WIN Dusty is going to hang around and many (to an extent myself included) don't think they can really take that next step around with Dusty at the wheel. If they do, it will just be damned good luck and they got the best hitter and best pitcher in the world (if they ever let the guy pitch more than 3 innings a week).

All that and right now the Latos trade isn't looking so hot. I get the guy has stuff, but I think he has that thing that one of the Reds other phenoms that got rushed to the bigs Homer Bailey has where he will be cruising and seemingly become unraveled quick. Thankfully Latos isn't a walk machine, but he hasn't been the dominating K guy either and his mistakes get turned into dingers in GABP, which to be fair is a bandbox of a field, especially if it is hot.

Votto's got a HR tonight. He's really moving up into the stratosphere: he began the game with an OPS+ just over 200, which has only been done 49 times.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/25788/more-on-joey-vottos-awesomeness

"Oftentimes solo home runs are rally killers." -- Chris Welsh

#1 and #2 hitters going AGAIN 0-9 are the real rally killers. Votto might as well lead off, he usually does lead off a couple innings a game anyway.

Latos is just a funky pitcher. The guy will saw bats for a couple hitters then Casey Kotchman will hit a 400 foot homer off of him. He throws way too much hard stuff that just runs flat as a pancake that people crush. Kind of similar to Homer Bailey in that regard, as he has that same problem at times.

@MLB_PR
Aroldis Chapman converts the save, then somersaults. Twice (via @MLB): http://atmlb.com/LNKqya

...

aroldis is like a kid out there

I hope it doesn't become some big thing like AC was showing up the Brewers. Chapman has had a bad couple weeks, so I think getting that game done was probably a big relief.

The guy had blown like 4 games in like 17-18 days.

he's not your roldis; he's not my roldis

Votto hit his 34th double tonight. A real longshot--no margin of error, he'd have to do it all over again in the second half--but he's on pace to break Earl Webb's record of 67. No one knows anything about Earl Webb, except that he once hit 67 doubles.

It would be nice if the Reds would actually get some people on base in front of Votto. Thing is that Dusty doesn't want to cross the streams and have Jay Bruce batting clean up with two lefties back to back in the lineup and move Phillips back to lead off, which isn't perfect but criminy they got to get 0 for his last 28 Drew Stubbs the fxxx out of the top of the lineup.

The other option that Reds fans clamor for is to move Ryan Hanigan up to #2, as the guy is a pesky hitter with a decent OBP who really doesn't strike out much and is good at going the other way with people on base, but again in the rules of Dusty - you don't want your catcher having to run back and get into his gears in the bottom of the first or shuffle your lineup when he doesn't play. Dusty would probably have Joe Mauer or Gary Carter batting 8th too - as he seems to go with a positional lineup where the SS or CF always bat 1 and 2 no matter who is playing the position and the C is always #8.

Dusty is just damn lucky the guy got to manage the Giants when he did and they were just loaded with talent to make whatever rep he has, although tempered through his years since he left SF.

when billy hamilton comes up he'll probably bat eighth, because dusty doesn't like young guys

I think a question in the next year is where Billy Hamilton is going to play when he gets to the bigs. The guy is still a pretty raw shortstop from what I understand with the glove. He's supposedly going to move up to AA after the futures game, at least that's the news today. Got to wonder if they will start giving him some time in CF at some point.

I'd figure Hamilton has to be a year out from the big leagues.

he played some 2b at billings in '10, but never any outfield.

oh yeah he'll have to prove himself at double-a at least, but . . . if the reds are in a playoff race, which they should be, i don't see why you wouldn't bring him up as even just a pinch runner when the rosters expand.

Maybe bring him up as a September callup. Don't want to speed up his clock if he's not ready.

Yeah the Reds might do what some clubs do and bring up Hamilton August 31st, that way just pretty much keep him around to be a pinch runner for a playoff run. They actually did that back in 1990 with a player named Billy Bates and he ended up scoring a couple runs in the playoffs including a game winner in a World Series game. This guy is a freak of a runner, so he's kind of on a different level.

They did it with Chapman a couple years ago.

Chapman was a different story because he signed a free agent contract. He didn't have an arbitration clock to accelerate.

Angels did it with K-Rod and the Rays did it with Price too. I think they can get away with that last month and not have them a yea towards free agency.

‏@m_sheldon
Votto has torn meniscus in left knee, to have surgery http://bit.ly/LmswlE #reds

Todd Frazier .279 .343 .538 .882 10 HR 208 AB
Bryce Harper .269 .339 .438 .776 8 HR 290 AB

Not sayin'...just saying.

Todd Frazier, 26 years old
Bryce Harper, 19 years old

;)

Frazier is def havin a nice little season

do they play tossed salads and scrambled eggs when he walks up to bat

Nope with Frazier it's usually Frank Sinatra "Fly Me to the Moon" or "Come Fly with Me".

The coolest Red walk up music though is Joey Votto...

"I see a RED door and I want it painted black"

Todd Frazier also saved a dudes life in Pittsburgh with the heimlich maneuver this year.

Todd Frazier also hit a 1 handed home run this year.

He doesn't have any eye black or smoked himself in the head with a bat though.

He's also 3-5 tonight with two Rbis.

Reds looking a whole lot better now that the schedule isn't the Braves, Giants, Dodgers or Nationals every series. They are on a 13-2 run last couple weeks or so.

Houston is a fire pit. That club and fanbase just looks completely defeated. It was like a late season trip into Montreal or something tonight, just no energy and seems like 500 people in the stands (although they said like 16000 which I find hard to believe).

Coco is by most counts a pretty nice guy, but man he can blow up some games as a closer. Not the way you want to be introduced to the new home fans, but hey, if he's goign to blow one might as well give it back to the Reds.

In case anyone needs to be reminded of how crazy good Chapman's been:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/aroldis-chapman-doing-crazy-strikeout-things/

His FIP is 1.11. For July, his FIP is NEGATIVE. I've never seen that before.

Mythic Todd Frazier‏@TheFrazierMyth

Todd Frazier probably won't be the NL RoY. Why? He voted for Bryce Harper and the BBWAA listens to Todd Frazier.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/baseball/mlb/07/23/todd-frazier-reds-jake-bullinger/index.html

why won't this fucking team lose

Well that makes 10 in a row. The answer to the question is that they have played the Brewers, Astros and Rockies back to back to back.

10 wins in a row means hall of fame broadcater Marty Brennaman loses his bet to the Reds players earlier this year and is going to shave his head.

14 Reds LOB thru 7 in a scoreless game

p entertaining game

a bullpen showdown is hardly fair

theres been like 8 balls hit off the wall

How does it feel to kill a rally, Jay Bruce?

There are not many games happen where Brandon Phillips draws three walks.

Latos is looking pretty good, he's really pitched well over the past couple of months.

theres a show on nbc sports network called "caught looking" that is like a hard knocks or 24/7 style show that picks 1 intriguing series & does an hr long recap show on it

newest one is last wkends reds/cards - p lol - mat latos gets a single in the bottom 2nd inn'g & is on first, rolen on 2b - as the 1st base coach is looking for the signs coming in, latos asks "can we get the double steal right here?"

is a good show btw, everyone tivo

well this is quite a struggle

didn't know Votto has a .473 OBP

(not enough PAs to lead the league tho)

Votto since June 29 (I included his last two games in June, which were both good; 0-6 on June 28), almost half a season (70 games, 304 PA): .406/.503/.635.

I don't usually look at the Reds thread...I see there's been a couple of related posts.