Why should he get different treatment to any other coach?

If there is a bigger sook in football than mickey i havent seen him. Mick no good blaming everybody else youve got a hack side and you got the best out of them the last 2 years now your where u should be.

This thread called also be entitled to 'why should a team that wins the flag every year be given an extra 600k'?

I mean, if we are talking equality, why not give Geelong an extra 600k? Can we attract any experienced players from other clubs? Do we get anything from the awful for finishing in the middle all the time? Is football in country Victoria any less important than the development of the game up north? Do we get to play blockbuster events like the Pies? Do we get the free kicks of Essendon or the television coverage of Sydney, Essendon or Collingwood?

Granted, the Lions have taken pay-cuts to stick together but after 17 years is the 600k justified? How many flags in a row does this team have to win? We've got the league putting thousands into the best side while grassroots footy whithers away and dies, surely the draft system wasn't implemented to give a side a history making dynasty.

Obviously the Lions are a great side and history will judge them so but everyone south of tweed heads will be putting a big *next to how many flags the Lions can eventually win.

We need a truly equalised competition. Get rid of the 600k, get rid of the uneven draw, if you earn a home final you should get to play at home. Fix the grassroots, fix the bloody umpiring and fix the tribunal.

30 Rounds, no blockbusters, no 600k. Or, if you are going to have extra salary cap for Sydney and Brisbane review it annually and decrease it should those sides dominate. Review and evalaute the situation of the game and FFS why give the northern sides extra salary cap to develop the game and not show Queenslanders and New South Welshmen the chance to actually see their teams on television..not that Cat fans can get to see Geelong unless they play Essendon or Collingwood.

McGuire reckons that Malthouse should get better treatment but it is the fans of at least 10 clubs in the comp that aren't getting a fair go and the AFL will soon become the Australian Premier League, like EPL, only one or two sides can actually win it. Yeah, LL will shout me down here but if you are going to rant about the painful pies why not discuss the otherside of the coin because one side dominating the competition only benifits a small percentage of football fans and sponsors.

Food for thought.

regards,

REB

Actually REB I agree with you! I think you'd find most Lions fans are sick of the Salary Concessions and the tripe we get over it and would be quite happy to see it either go or be available to all clubs and and even draw as you suggest.

But then there would not be 10 clubs in Victoria because without funding from the AFL they don't seem to be able to survive. Complex - indeed!

I'm stunned! I thought you'd be gunning for me after that rant. Yes, there would not be ten clubs, rather 8. I'm not a believer in propping up the Roos and the Dogs just so we can maintain a ridiculous lop sided draw.

But then again, I'm probably just jealous. I can't see the Cats on TV (even though I'm a foxtel subscriber) and we can't seem to win a bloody flag.

regards,

REB

I had you pegged at better then that REB.

Any side can get a salary cap consession, even the red heads at Geelong - if enough of your list comes from outside your state. THE AFL DOES NOT PAY THE $600K, THE LIONS HAVE TO FIND THE MONEY.

In fact the Lions pay under their salary cap, there is a pool of money set aside from the salary cap that is distributed to ALL players (1 to 37) if the team achieves certain goals during the year.

As a Lion's fan I'm really happy for you and as many other people as possible to concentrate on the salary cap, please make everything the same, just like the last three years.

As for country footy in Victoria, development funds at the junior level happy for it, should be more of it. But reality has got to bite too, my brother-in-law was the president of a club from a small town with less than 4,000 people in northern Vic. They pay their coach $25K a year. I live in a city of more then 140,000, we pay our coach less than $5K. Surprise, surprise, they go broke and fold and the headline reads "Football crisis in the bush", it should have read, "Fools seek to blame others for their stupidity".

The secret to Brisbane is not the extra money, its the way they manage the list, have built a team ethos, and their ability to draft good talent and bring them through. Good Southport boy as he is, Nick the Blonde would not be on the money he is if he was at the Lion's. Not because they couldn't do it, but because they don't do it.

REB - you missed a couple of other things wrong with footy.

Selling "home" games - Melb in Bris, Dogs in Sydney.
Eddie commentating Collingwood matches.
The fact that not every team has a home and away jumper.

Bring the comp back to 14 teams, have a 26 round season. All Clubs are permitted to play matches away from their "home" ground if its in a neutral venue - Launceston, Canberra, Darwin, Cairns etc

Each club has the same amount to spend on players, no interstate bonus fund, and allow clubs to pay minimum 90% of the salary cap, with the leftovers able to be spread over future years...

And Brisbane starts the season on -10 points to make it competitive for everyone else :P

"The secret to Brisbane is not the extra money, its the way they manage the list"...and it's a lot easier with that larger salary cap isn't it Bird?

regards,

REB

Let's get the AFL to pay all the salaries of every player. Highest salary should be no more thatn $300,000 and this only for the senior top players, then varying degrees to a rookie. Each club to contribute a percentage towards the salaries which is paid to the AFL who distribute the money. That way no player gets more for playing in Brisbane, Sydney, Perth, Melbourne or Adelaide. The money normally spent on salaries by the various clubs could be used to supplement cost of living bonus' and lack of media opportunities in non AFL states. (this may or may not work)

But if the AFL was paying the same money to all players the retention concessions might not be needed and players might not be so tempted to more clubs.

REB, you know very well that it's not money that's keeping our list together, stop trying to be so antagonistic!

Every fan of every club KNOWS that the only reason any player ever leaves his club, or goes to any club except theirs, is for the money. But that is never the reason the new bloke turns up to replace him.

Just like they know it's always the umpire's fault when they lose.

The managment bit is that you move on players so you can bring on the young underneath. So Matty Clark, B&F and twice runner-up goes so you can work with the Lappins et al. Not so you can try and get the next Nick Stevens. It does not always work and so you loose the Voss' and Boltons but you make the right calls and keep the Hadleys and the MrGraths.

Apologies for any offence caused, not trying to flame you all. Just trying to spark up a bit of discussion. I know I have never spun this line (aka salary cap whine) before but I'm starting to wonder why we can't have the same set of rules for every club.

The Lions are awesome on and off the field and it IS up to the rest to reach that standard not the other way around but why not give the northern sides more free to air footy, that would help the game up there and why not 30 rounds?

Bird, apologies for thousands into the best side' clanger...ouch. DOH! Told you it was a rant.

regards,

REB

No apologies, passions and opinions is what its about, its just there are lies and half-truths that have become part of the myths of football and Brisbane and that gets on my wick.

So when the AFL says they are putting $12M into football in Qld over the next 5 years for the development of the game it becomes the AFL giving money to the Lions.

For what its worth, the Brisbane junior league has had 88 new teams registered this year and the biggest issue with footy in the Sunshine state is managing growth and finding grounds. Not such a bad way to be, all these new "consumers" for TV, jumpers and caps, memberships etc. Not a bad investment I would think, God forbid that some might start to even follow Geelong!!!! Oh the humanity!!!

"So when the AFL says they are putting $12M into football in Qld over the next 5 years for the development of the game it becomes the AFL giving money to the Lions"

No, that's good for the game. Its not about giving the Lions additional money - its about development of an expanding code. And once the kiddies are all playing AFL, the league can pull the player retention bonus that the Swans and Lions get.

Hell, does WC get extra $ for Chris Judd because he is a Victorian? Do the Saints get extra $ to retain Nick Reiwolt because he is a Queenslander? No - and that's why this whole thing is not fair.

In a level playing field of salary caps, player drafts, priority picks etc, 4 premierships to the team with the extra $ to spend on player retention suggests something is wrong, somewhere...

If I was a Lions supporter, I'd defend it to the death like LL and BB do. But I'm not, and a supporter of a Victorian team, it stinks...

BB, I've said it here before but the reason the Lions have basically kept the same team happy is because they don't spend October throwing their weight around at the meat market, but tying up the players they already have and concentrating on the kids in the upcoming draft.

That way they get more than enough 'next Nick Stevenses' while they're still Nicholas Stevens from Parade College. Which I wouldn't be surprised works out cheaper in the long run.

Benno, the Saint and Eagles can get extra for the cap, if enough of their list comes from interstate!! Even Collingwood could do this, just have 60-65% of the list from outside Victoria. But given their reaction to the Nic Davis situation there aren't enough dams in Vic to hold the crocodile tears if one or two of the boys leave.

I tell you what would be a fair swap, no cap concessions, but no trading of players who do not resign with their existing club. So the Nick Stevens and Port situation becomes the norm, you want to leave then you go into a draft, maybe this could be the group for the consessional picks for clubs with less then 5 wins!!!

So if Stenglein wants to leave Adelaide, fine, into the draft son, no trading with Freo or WC, take your chance.

Benno, I've had enough of the Salary Concessions and the implied inequity that goes with it.

Tell me how much the Western Bulldogs get from the block busters that the richest club hold at the MCG with other big name clubs i.e. Essendon and Richmond etc. Yet the Doggies have to accept money from the AFL to survive.

The fact that players in AFL strongholds eg Victoria get far more sponsorship deals and media coverage (i.e. extra $$$'s). This does not equate to 'level playing field'.

I say abolish the salary concessions, abolish the rigged draw, abolish players being able to get paid for media and sponsorship deals, give them all the same salary e.g No $M figures for individual players, everyone travel out of the state the same numbers of times and then we can start talking about equality.

As for the AFLQ they are talking about a couple of the clubs being dropped to minor competition up here because we don't have the talent to fill all the clubs.

So when Mr Ed gives up his conflict of interest i.e. Media Personality, Commentator and President, when all clubs get the same access to the media as Collingwood, etc etc etc then we can start with equality.

Brisbane Lions have not won three premierships because we have been granted permission to pay more to retain players, the majority are on considerably less than any Victorian based players. It is the talent or the team and the coaching staff etc. Not playing as individuals but working as a team for the team.

Hope your satisfied REB you've not only opened the can of worms you've forcefed them to us.!

what conflict of interest Lucy?

ha ha

:)

regards,

REB

OK, here we go

"Tell me how much the Western Bulldogs get from the block busters that the richest club hold at the MCG with other big name clubs i.e. Essendon and Richmond etc. Yet the Doggies have to accept money from the AFL to survive."

What do they get? They survive to live another day and hopefully prosper and have success. You don't think the millions they recieve from the AFL are not subsidised through the AFL TV rights package (which is negotiated on the success of the big and popular clubs?) If they can't draw punters through the gate, in these economic rationalised times, then maybe they are the weakest link and its time to go...

"I say abolish the salary concessions, abolish the rigged draw, abolish players being able to get paid for media and sponsorship deals, give them all the same salary e.g No $M figures for individual players"

Rigged draw? No worries, have each team play everyone else twice, once at home, once away. So it is a 30 round season. The draw is not rigged any more.

No money for media deals? Now that is restraint of trade - and illegal. Surely players are allowed to negotiate media deals - and I am sure Acker would be on plenty of media $ for the number of times he cameos on TV that even us southern Territorians see...

"everyone travel out of the state the same numbers of times and then we can start talking about equality."

That statement is completely f&*king ridiculous. The only way that every team would have equal number of trips interstate is if there was just 1 or 2 teams in each state, and every second week they travelled. So who is relocating and merging where?

"So when Mr Ed gives up his conflict of interest i.e. Media Personality, Commentator and President, when all clubs get the same access to the media as Collingwood, etc etc etc then we can start with equality."

As I have said, Eddie should not commentate Collingwood games. I have no problem with him being on the footy show. Can he still host Mullionaire though?

Maybe other clubs should negotiate with TV stars to be the President of the footy club - perhaps Hawthorn should get the Queer Eye team?

As for conflicts, Ian Collins at boss of the Dome and Carlton has conflict issues as well.

We've been down this path before, and I know the Lions are about the best side that has existed.

Surely you can understand that the Lions get a genuine home advantage when they play in Brisbane, they have a better climate than Melbourne which attracts players, and living costs are cheaper than southern states - the additional $ compounds these facts...

Now BB, the 65% from interstate must be a new interpretation of the rule - I was always under the impression the $ were there to prevent players from going back to Victoria due to homesickness - something other clubs don't have the benefit of!

No Benno they changed it at the end of last year, if a certain % of your list comes from interstate to can qualify for the cap increase Brisbane gets.

The Lions have had players go back to all states, not just Victoria, Desi back to Perth was just the latest. The Bears even drafted the Jarman brothers way back in 88/89. Of course they never fronted to Carrara, but we did draft them first!!! More fool us.

I think after Sydney and Brisbane the list with the most interstaters is Port with about 35% from outside SA.