ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/3/38/BTRPLNTGQK2005.jpg

Seed Collective dedicated a song to Samuel R Delany when I saw them last Saturday :)

Just saw this: https://www.tor.com/2019/04/15/gene-wolfe-in-memoriam-1931-2019/

https://www.blackgate.com/2019/04/14/total-pulp-victory-a-report-from-windy-city-pulp-paper-2019/

Nice big pile

Review of a Shiel book I found quite funny
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/2774811607

I don't read a lot of fiction, but I did breeze through "Infinite Detail" this week. It's exactly the sort of apocalypse fantasy that resonates with me, which probably doesn't say anything good about me.

https://www.tor.com/series/ok-where-do-i-start-with-that/
Quite a fun feature from 2010. Going through the alphabet with threads (most of it is in the comments) recommending the best place to start for each author. It doesn't stick strictly to speculative fiction. Yes, this taken quite a while to read and I skimmed/skipped plenty of stuff.

Obviously not every commenter is an expert on every writer they mention, most are probably just talking about the most popular books they happened to read, but there's definitely some very knowledgeable people in there and surely some trash bingers too.

I found it most useful for the tons of female writers who I occasionally hear about but nobody in my circles seems to read, lots of writers who owe as much to Georgette Heyer and Jane Austen as much as any fantasy writer, and space opera writers. Maybe Kari Sperring, Michelle Sagara West, Sarah Monette/Katherine Addison, Melanie Rawn, Kate Elliott, Sharon Shinn, Sherwood Smith, Carol Berg, Patricia Wrede, Jennifer Roberson and so much more.
A lot of them are very popular and it just shows you how distant parts of fandom can be from each other.

And sending me on my way for finding (supposedly) good early Piers Anthony and Jack L Chalker.

Jo Walton sometimes says "start anywhere with this writer", then in the case of Poul Anderson, some considerate fan tells you which Anderson books you should definitely NOT start with.

I often skimmed over writers I've never heard of (otherwise I would be reading this for weeks more) but I was intrigued by the talk of Elisabeth Vonarburg, a French writer who has maybe a third of her work in English.

====

Spatterlight is branching out into Jack Vance fanfiction, starting with Dutch writer Tais Teng (comparatively little of his work is in English).

Also reading Martha Wells talking about fanfiction. Says there was lots of fanzines featuring stories of Harrison Ford characters having gay sex back in the 80s. Recently listened to an interview with someone who started emerging as an author writing gay sex stories about Star Trek movie reboot characters (makes me feel a bit old even though I'm not).

Apparently some people go nuts at writers for not writing fanfiction! But if nobody wrote their own stuff, what are you going to write fanfiction about?

http://www.scottedelman.com/2018/08/24/dive-into-vietnamese-seafood-noodle-soup-with-rachel-pollack-in-episode-75-of-eating-the-fantastic/
Listened to this. Her novel Unquenchable Fire is in the SF Masterworks series. She's an authority on tarot cards, wrote Doom Patrol and New Gods (she hated the art she was saddled with on the latter), says that the Captain Marvel stories by Eando Binder are genius. Quietly spoken.

I'm pretty psyched for the Marlon James tbh, I liked Seven Killings.

― change display name (Jordan), Monday, January 7, 2019 3:04 PM

it's real good imo

Mentioned upthread, and I'm intrigued. How is this?

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/561572/a-peoples-future-of-the-united-states-by-edited-by-victor-lavalle-and-john-joseph-adams/9780525508809/

Havent read this guy before but its the first halfway affordable book I've seen from him.
http://www.egaeuspress.com/Children_of_the_Crimson_Sun.html

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/538034/exhalation-by-ted-chiang/9781101947883/

happy to have a copy of the merchant and the alchemist's gate, but give us a novel, ted.

Maybe I can sell my limited ed copy of The Lifetime of Software Objects now--it goes for silly money

Lol at last two posts

I bought Best Of RA Lafferty and every story has an introduction by a (mostly) different author and some stories also have an afterward. Seems like overkill to me but I guess they just really want to boost Lafferty's chances of drawing an audience through these different writers.

Had forgotten about The Owl in Daylight---any of yall read any of it?
https://electricliterature.com/philip-k-dicks-unfinished-novel-was-a-faustian-fever-dream/

^ cool story, didn't know

just been through the new monthly kindle deals (UK version, 51 pages...) and saw some things that've been mentioned here... not recommendations necessarily.

Reynolds: Aurora Rising (The Prefect) £0.99
Wyndham: The Kraken Wakes £1.99 (Triffids also)
Stephenson: Anathem £2.49
Scalzi: Head On £0.99
Ewing (et al): Judge Dredd Year One Omnibus £0.99
Tchaikovsky: Ironclads £0.99
Mieville: London's Overthrow $1.99
Man in the High Castle
Station 11

(the Dredd is a novel rather than a graphic novel)

all the SF&F offers for may here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?bbn=3017941031&rh=n%3A341677031%2Cn%3A%21425595031%2Cn%3A%21425597031%2Cn%3A3017941031%2Cn%3A341689031%2Cn%3A2967299031&pf_rd_i=3017941031&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=6b17e745-4ab5-40d0-89c1-12892013e48d&pf_rd_r=K3KHHS2S0V6NA8KV5TQJ&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-16&pf_rd_t=101&ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_ccl_w

and not on offer but cheap anyway
Lafferty: 900 Grandmothers £1.99
Lafferty: Lafferty In Orbit £1.99

How come the Mieville is in $s?

mac keyboard. 8)

Robert E. Howard - The Haunter Of The Ring & Other Tales

There isn't as much overlap with the stories in Del Rey's REHoward horror collection as I expected, this has more macabre detective stories not in that collection. It doesn't feature "Old Garfield's Heart", which is often considered one of his best horror stories.
I chosen to read this collection first because it has no illustrations to influence or distract me (I love good illustrations as much as anyone, but I prefer as few as possible in amongst the text) but I really should have read the 2 volume Best Of (Crimson Shadows and Grim Lands) which includes the best story here and "Old Garfield's Heart".

The quality of the writing is quite erratic, there's one brilliant story, a few quite good ones, a few pretty bad ones ("Horror From The Mound", "The Children Of The Night", "People Of The Dark", "Black Talons") and most of the rest are goodish to mediocre. This was quite tough to slog through, my eyes and brain were frequently sliding away from the page but I don't regret reading them all, though I doubt I'll ever be a REHoward completist.

I often felt that so many of the tales were very nearly scary or exciting but spoiled by something, perhaps too much packing in redundant information that we already know? I quite liked the aesthetic of the rural horror stories like "Graveyard Rats", "Fangs Of Gold" and "Black Wind Blowing", they have a heavy darkness and a bit of gruesomeness kind of like Hugh B Cave.

"Wolfshead" is quite a fun mixture with gothic castle horror, an interesting werewolf mythology and full-on action at the end. "Skull-Face" is too long and lags in places but this was the best orientalist detective story of the bunch. "The Cairn On The Headland" has some very fine imagery but I felt it was spoiled slightly by making Odin seem like too much of a demon at the end.

Although REHoward doesn't have as low a percentage of positively portrayed non-whites as Lovecraft, I think some readers might be put off by just how much more persistently they have to deal with Howard's views and portrayals.

In "Names In The Black Book" and "The Fire Of Asshurbanipal" we have two imperfectly portrayed but still genuine Afghan Muslim action heroes that we cheer on. In "Skull-Face" and "Names In The Black Book" we have two Asian women as love interests (which I'm sure will make people groan; one of them says "The mysterious instincts that are part of my Eastern heritage are alert to danger").

There are a few handsome or sophisticated non-whites who make the white protagonists insecure, this shown in a very racist way. Although I'm wary of being too presumptuous about how much Howard is writing about himself, it's kind of amazing how bare he seems to lay his insecurities and masochism in "The Hyena" (search "Elements of Sadomasochism in the Fiction and Poetry of Robert E. Howard" by Charles Hoffman, he makes a good case that Howard was genuinely into this stuff).

Mongolians get it worse than black people in "The Children Of The Night" and "People Of The Dark". Both stories come off meatheaded and the former one left a bad taste in my mouth; the main character acknowledges how senseless tribal conflict is but then goes on to counter that by saying that aryans have become weak since they stopped being a nomadic group.
I don't know enough about Howard to say how much he really believed a return to savagery was a good idea. Maybe the story is about his conflicted feelings? Maybe the horror he sometimes shows in tribal prejudices and the rise and fall of civilizations is his way of saying savagery might not be a great thing? Or was he just writing these out and not thinking too much about what kind of message might come across?

A decade ago I read Scott Hampton's brilliant comic book adaptation of "Pigeons From Hell" in Spookhouse 2 (the definitive version, others had different lacks of color), easily the scariest comic I've ever read and even one of my favorite comics of all time. Scott Hampton claimed that "Pigeons From Hell" was the scariest story he'd ever read, so I've been eager to read the real thing for a long time.
My reading of the real thing might be partially influenced by my powerful memories of the comic adaptation but I'm confident it's a genuinely great horror story; head, shoulders and knees above everything else in this collection and gives me a bit more enthusiasm to read more Howard. It has become a bit of a classic but it hasn't appeared in nearly enough anthologies. It's not perfect (I've heard this was one of the stories he never actually got around to submitting, so possibly not finished?) but the imagery, folkloric mythology of it and the chills are very fine.

https://chuckhoffman.blogspot.com/2010/07/elements-of-sadomasochism-in-fiction.html

Something that seems particularly quaint to me about pulp era stories, is the hysteria that human sacrifice is treated with. It becomes really annoying.

Getting to the end of Charles Stross' Accelerando, near-future cyberpunk to post-singularity silliness. It's basically science fantasy masquerading as hard sf, bursting with ideas (fermi paradox solution etc) but ludicrous (humans get out-evolved by intelligent corporations and legal devices); however it definitely doesn't take itself seriously. It pulls its punches somewhat by focusing on the least augmented, most human of the post humans, also does the annoying Alistair Reynolds thing of the main characters being a single family bearing massive grudges against each other.

Also a while ago I finished Marge Piercy's A Woman on the Edge of Time. Where Joanna Russ' The Female Man is blisteringly angry about women's lack of opportunities, this is blisteringly depressed about women being punching bags for men, and getting committed, drugged and imprisoned when they fight back. As some recompense it offers a future utopia, but interestingly the eponymous protagonist is not immediately convinced of its benefits. Anyway I'd put both of them (Russ and Piercy) on a list of absolutely essential SF.

That's funny, I was also recently giving Piercy's "A Woman on the Edge of Time" a go. tbh, I couldn't finish it. I just wasn't in the mood for something so relentlessly bleak, just living inside this tortured woman's head. I wouldn't say it was bad - in fact it's very well written, and it demands a certain level of attention to get all the nuances and keep everything straight as the main character lurches from one mental state to another. But the general subject matter and didacticism got in the way of me wanting to make the necessary effort, it's just not a mental space I wanted to occupy, sympathetic though I am with the author's overall aims and ideology.

of the authors that seem to be going through a popular career resuscitation due (in part) to the current cultural political climate - LeGuin, Delany, Russ, Butler, Piercy, I'm sure there's others - I would definitely put Russ and especially LeGuin at the top of the heap. But that's just me.

'woman on the edge of time' was definitely a book that stayed with me for a while.

started 'revenger' by alastair reynolds -- hadn't read anything by him, figured i'd check out something shorter than revelation space -- and . . . it's a young adult novel? i kept waiting for some plot twist or, um, revelation, but no. and i don't have anything against YA -- god bless earthsea, etc. -- but there was no depth to anything at all in this one.

read peter watts' 'blindsight', which i think JM recommended? it was great, although the re-creation of a certain extinct species might have been a little much.

now reading 'chaga' by ian mcdonald. i like it even though the heroine is awfully precious.

I couldn't make it past 20 pages of Blindsight, hated the narrative voice/tone

there's a certain kind of ironically swaggering voice that some hard sf authors seem to have gotten third-hand from hardboiled/noir sources and I really hate it. Blindsight had that. Scalzi's "Old Man's War" had it too.

I feel like Zelazny kind of used that tone

Am currently reading 334 by Thomas M Disch, which also has a somewhat ironically swaggering narrative voice, often, in SF (and elsewhere), deployed to tell us just how clever the author is. Of the American New Wave, Disch and Zelanzy seem the most prone to (predominantly classical) literary allusion /appropriation of modernist literary techniques; Delany joins them too on the more 'poetic' wing. 334 is a series of linked stories set in a dystopian future NYC (334 is the housing block that most of the main characters live in). It has some interesting things in common with Dhalgren, inc the ugly sex writing, and in fact Delany wrote a book-length study of one of the stories from 334 - 'Angouleme' - that I've just ordered. Disch is much more cynical than Delany tho - this is very untranscendent SF. Best line: "It got so bad that at one point there were four teevee series about zombies."

lol

how bad have things gotten when there are twenty or thirty teevee series about zombies?

I have a soft spot for Disch - he has some amazing short stories (cf "Now is Forever") - and Camp Concentration and 334 are both masterfully done imo. The other books I've read of his range from bad ideas well executed to just complete nonsense. I don't disagree about his cynicism, he was definitely a sour fellow.

some other old thoughts here: rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

i have a copy of Fun With Your New Head that i've never cracked open. Opinion?

top shelf stuff imo, perhaps his best

oh sweet

I couldn't make it past 20 pages of Blindsight, hated the narrative voice/tone

i can kind of see what you mean -- and watts isn't above showing off how smart he is -- but otoh the book's in the first person, and the narrating character is not swaggering at all.

don't remember much about 'camp concentration' except that i liked it. i think it had some catch-22 in it?

also started 'version control' by dexter palmer, which was trying way too hard for very obvious social commentary

Camp Concentration is basically all a huge setup for the twist that happens on the last page

(it's an ingenious setup though)

Reading Shadow of the Torturer for the first time. It's way more *fun* than I was expecting it to be, and Wolfe writes the most readable purple prose I think I've ever encountered from a sci-fi writer.

B-b-but ave you read Jack Vance?

ave typo was a reference to Gene Wolfe’s religious bent

I haven't! I actually haven't read widely at all so I'm making a huge generalisation

(widely in fantasy)

Vance is the undisputed master of decorative prose in SFF

Yeah, if you like Wolfe, you might well dig Vance (I prefer him). Torturer and others in the New Sun series aren't fantasy, geekly speaking: as with others in the dying earth thing (incl. maybe JV's The Complete Dying Earth, which I've got but haven't read), they can be seen as planetary romance or science fantasy, with some elements of ecotastrophe, for instance or way in its wake---although the Wolfe books (as I dimly recall from the 80s) just have a really old Urth, in need of a New Sun (which will meet the same ol' Urth right? Read on).
I have a soft spot for Disch - he has some amazing short stories Yeah---can't remember where I
long ago encountered this or the title, but there's one that starts out with Ugly American tourists---caricatures often found in other slick-lit fiction of late 50s-to-early-70s---making themselves at home in or near coastal North Africa, I think---but just as they reach a peak of reek, US Gov commits a military atrocity in some other culturally and ethnically related region, the Middle East, I believe---and Mr. and Ms. Asshole suddenly find their credit declined, to put it mildly---they get swept up in a shitstorm---political prescience aside, it becomes more about unwelcome, unavoidable empathy--- maybe TD's slickest twist evah, but more "O shit!" in the immediate reading experience.
Like some live performances of "Ballad of a Thin Man," from a flourished sneer to sheer (protracted) fear---that's the only comparison I can think of.

Heard about Disch's On Wings Of Song rcently, sounds great, these covers are amusing
http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/7/7d/NWNGSFSNGH1979.jpg
http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/e/e1/BKTG01901.jpg

Did LeGuin require reviving? I thought she was always popular? Read about Disch's digs at her and other writers, they seemed completely unfounded. I listened to an interview and he said he treasured his grudge with someone (Algis Budrys?), didn't know if he was joking but sounded crazy.

Just seen this blurb

From the introduction by Eleanor Arnason: "Sargent has a quality usually associated with hard SF: a certain kind of intellectual rigor. With her, it carries through all of her work. She thinks things through. ... Notice, when you read this collection, how many different kinds of stories are here and notice the range of moods: the stories go from really funny to really dark, with a lot in between. ... I also want to mention Sargent's persistence. Writing is a hard life. Many good woman writers I admired in the 1970s, '80s and '90s have vanished. They stopped writing or stopped trying to sell their fiction or changed their names and moved to writing romance, gay romance, generic fantasy -- whatever they could sell. In one way or another, they were silenced. Sargent has kept doing thoughtful, serious fiction, dealing with the issues that interested her."

Free ebook here for a few more days https://www.sevenstories.com/books/3273-lovestar. Read the first few pages and seems promising, although the blurb comparisons might put you off.

Oh fuck, it's God
http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/8/86/BKTG09307.jpg

it me