my assumptions are as follows: roupenian had a bad date/dates/experience with this dude.
she was talking about this with a friend, they mentioned that he used to have a much younger girlfriend.
she fictionalized her experiences with the guy - how closely the story hews to reality we'll never know. she also made the character not her, but the much younger girlfriend, who she only knew small biographical details about which she included.
then it's also possible that the overly sensitive guy perhaps stewed over the depiction of him to the extent that it was a contributing factor in his death
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:47 (three years ago) link
I’m thinking that many, many works of literature past and present have some element of real life inspirations and obsessing over this one is kinda weird. Did someone read Crime and Punishment and think “oh shit he wrote about my life he makes Raskolnikov sound like such a dick and I’m totally not.”
― KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, July 8, 2021 9:46 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink
it's an age old question. i believe thomas mann, right after he married his wife, wrote a book where a character based on his wife fucks her brother. this was not without controversy im sure
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:48 (three years ago) link
Looks this way, yes
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:49 (three years ago) link
xp
Bernhard wrote that one book about how much the narrator hated everyone at this one party while he sat in a chair and people at a party Bernhard went to sued him for it and tried to get the book destroyed
― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:53 (three years ago) link
cat person story nbd, who care, etc, but yeah the writer was lazy and could have changed a couple things
― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:54 (three years ago) link
i've been waiting my whole life to say this sentence, but, Bongo Jongus otm
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:56 (three years ago) link
I just repeated a lagoon post tbh
― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:56 (three years ago) link
great artists steal iirc
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:57 (three years ago) link
damn i hate all discourse about this story nearly as much as the story itself
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 8 July 2021 16:59 (three years ago) link
krat person (a story about kratom)
― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:01 (three years ago) link
yep very happy to avoid it completely (beyond this thread) xp
― intern at pelican brief consulting (Simon H.), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:02 (three years ago) link
even this thread! in what way does this merit any thought at all!
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:03 (three years ago) link
brad extremely otm
― imago, Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:04 (three years ago) link
sorry i've been really cranky lately
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:04 (three years ago) link
I think it's interesting
― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:05 (three years ago) link
It’s salacious tho
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:05 (three years ago) link
.... all right
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:06 (three years ago) link
wasn't there a mad tv sketch where eric clapton tried to push ppl out of windows to write more hit songs
― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:06 (three years ago) link
I get that sentiment totally, but I actually found the response piece quite moving(?) and worth reading on its own, even divorced from the original story, just as a reflection on the moment
― intern at pelican brief consulting (Simon H.), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:06 (three years ago) link
(many xps to brad)
think it's a perfectly fine short story tbh
the ethics of writing about real people - in fiction or non-fiction - is something we're never going to get to the bottom of so yes, the discourse is a bit useless. but this essay introduces a possibly sensational and yes, as per treeship, salacious element which interests some (including myself)
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:06 (three years ago) link
The big question has to do with Charles. The woman in the story has now had her say—she was not some naive victim, and resents being presented as such. She has warm feelings toward her now deceased older ex boyfriend. But he is dead now and Roupenian’s letter strongly implies he did something that justified her representation of him. And we know he was bothered by this, maybe tormented. Was that right or fair? We don’t know.
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:09 (three years ago) link
y’all are weird i’m out
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:10 (three years ago) link
― treeship., Thursday, July 8, 2021 10:09 AM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
everyone he knew, even acquaintances, would be aware that he was cat person also. which depending on how he actually acted towards roupenian could be a kind of "just desserts", or you know, could've been an unjustified nightmare
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:23 (three years ago) link
Roupenian’s letter strongly implies he did something that justified her representation of him
I don't really see that this is strongly implied by the quotes in the Slate piece.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:27 (three years ago) link
I mean she doesn’t say she understands how hard it was for him, just her
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:31 (three years ago) link
Emil.y otm — that’s why it resonated when it came out
And while I don't rate the story very highly, it's relatable for a lot of people because those experiences have been had by a lot of people. It could be anyone.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:37 (three years ago) link
And she said they had an “encounter.” Kind of an ominous phrase.
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:38 (three years ago) link
Cp
I swear to God, in the waiting room where I’m reading the Cat Person article, there’s an episode of The Golden Girls playing where Blanche is angry that a character in a novel is based on her pic.twitter.com/Egs0Ple298— David Burr Gerrard (@DBGerrard) July 8, 2021
― too cool for zen talk (Eazy), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:38 (three years ago) link
Xp sry
It's sprinkled that the story killed Charles, without accusing. Just leaving traces of anger.
It's a really good piece.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:39 (three years ago) link
I guess I meant that I didn't see an indication that he objectively did something that would justify being represented in that way (which doesn't necessarily mean he didn't). I agree that she doesn't seem to feel bad for him (which could possibly mean that he 'deserved' it). xps Not sure I get ominousness from the word "encounter" either but I'm p out of touch.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:39 (three years ago) link
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:40 (three years ago) link
If he didn’t treat Roupenian poorly, it is pretty inexcusable for her to have made him into an easily identifiable symbol of a groomer.
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:47 (three years ago) link
As jim said, his friends and acquaintances would have recognized him based on the details in the story.
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:48 (three years ago) link
One should only base fictional characters on people who don't really exist, like message board posters.
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:48 (three years ago) link
I think you should disguise it better. Simon’s point from above.
― treeship., Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:51 (three years ago) link
With Treeship on this.
― too cool for zen talk (Eazy), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:52 (three years ago) link
People can base fictional characters on anything they want and people who become the basis for characters can respond accordingly based on how they feel about it.xps
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:52 (three years ago) link
I also think it should be disguised better bc otherwise you’re exploiting someone else’s life which is cruel, or at the very least grossly insensitive to the feelings of other people.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:54 (three years ago) link
We don't know anything about how he treated Roupenian but it does seem fairly certain that he was not a groomer with her as she was not young at the time of their 'encounter'. (She moved to Michigan for her MFA degree.)
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 July 2021 17:57 (three years ago) link
Would anyone have a different perspective if Charles had had some kind of public profile? That by "exposing himself" expectations of privacy were different?
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 8 July 2021 18:03 (three years ago) link
lag∞n is right
― Bongo Jongus, Thursday, July 8, 2021 12:32 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
otm
― lag∞n, Thursday, 8 July 2021 18:05 (three years ago) link
I would probably be more critical if he were a public figure.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 July 2021 18:09 (three years ago) link
deeply pleased that the bewildered subject of Cat Person is, herself, a talented writer and perceiver— Matt Pearce 🦅 (@mattdpearce) July 8, 2021
― lag∞n, Thursday, 8 July 2021 18:09 (three years ago) link
LL and lag∞n otm
in my limited, mostly school-years experience of writing fiction and creative nonfiction, it’s a lot easier to use small details from real people to sketch more interesting characters, but not changing easily-identifiable details is pretty bad
by default I’d always assume that a character in fiction, if based on anyone, is more of a composite than a single identifiable person. if you can pin 80% of the description of a character on a real person, you’re going to always wonder about that 20% that’s the writer’s exposition and internal monologue, especially if you’re the person who is seemingly identifiable
― mh, Thursday, 8 July 2021 18:20 (three years ago) link
fwiw the response piece is I think better written than the original story, or at least my memory of it
― intern at pelican brief consulting (Simon H.), Thursday, 8 July 2021 18:20 (three years ago) link
the way she writes about reading "cat person" and having it possibly influence her own recollection / judgment of events etc was really nicely observed I thought
― intern at pelican brief consulting (Simon H.), Thursday, 8 July 2021 18:21 (three years ago) link