Thread of Wonder, the next 5000 posts: science fiction, fantasy, speculative fiction 2021 and beyond

Speaking of Russian SF, this is from the first Rolling Speculative etc:

Latest thrift store scores:
Path Into The Unknown--The Best of Soviet Science Fiction. No creds for ed or trans. Dell PB '68, orig MacGibbon & Kee Ltd, UK '66. Reputable? Intro by Judith Merril, which I've just skimmed because I don't want to be prejudiced (she's v. opinionated). She mentions some are late Stalin-era, compares them to the post-(most of 'em, I think). Is sometimes frustrated by translations, but cites several pushing their way through, especially "Wanderers and Travellers," by Arkady Strugatsky. He and brother Boris wrote "An Emergency Case." Plus, two by Ilya Varshavsky, one each by Vladislav Krapiivin, Sever Gansovsky, G. Gor, and Anatoly Dneprov. Didn't Sturgeon edit (or get his name on) an another collection of Soviet S.F.? What other Soviet of post-Soviet antholgies should I check?

― dow, Saturday, 19 May 2012
...Speaking of the 80s, I read the Strugatsky brothers' Roadside Picnic and Hard To Be A God back then, both very festive.

― dow, Saturday, 19 May 2012
Checking Path Into The Unknown: The Best of Soviet Science Fiction, from the mid-60s. No ed or translator credits, though intro by Judith Merrill. She's frustrated by some of the translations, but so far so good, with no text in/ knowledge of Russian for comparison anyway (had more trouble w The City..., which maybe was supposed to seem "translated" from tough-guy East Eurosky)Translation may have added to the effect of a key passage in one of the Russian stories, Ilya Varshavsky's "The Conflict": a robot housekeeper reduces the lady of the house to tears, and hubbie requires an explanation. Cybella the robotess recounts:
"I caught a glimpse (of "two essential errors"or in the wife's thesis). It would have been stupid of me not to tell Martha about it. I simply wanted to help her. "
"And what happened?"
"She started crying and said she was a live human being, and that to have a machine lecturing her all the time was just as repulsive to her as kissing a 'fridge.' "
"You, of course, answered back?"
"Yes, I said, that if she could gratify her progenitive instinct with the help of a fridge, she would probably see nothing reprehensible in kissing it." O snap! But she just means in the most helpful fashion, "Pray wake up and smell the coffee, Mistress, you got your hard drive too/ " But if that weren't bad enough, Martha might be taking it like, "yeah you'd kiss a fridge if your p-drive was strong enough--but it's not! You're more frigid than the fridge!" This being the era, at least in neurotic Amerikan suds fiction and too much "nonfiction", when women might be labeled frigid. But this is worse than for those broads, cos I take it "progenitive" means having progeny, not just sex for sex's sake. But that's not the end of "The Conflict."

― dow, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 01:50 (nine years ago) link

It's close to it though. Unless my edition is missing some pages. I prefer the next story, 'Robby', it's excellently droll although the actual punchline, if intended as such, is weak.

― ledge, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 22:41 (nine years ago) link

The Odessa joke loses something in the translation, perhaps.

― ledge, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 22:42 (nine years ago) link

You're right, the fridge incident is close to the end, but not the end. I'll have to look at the Odessa bit again, but reading the one about "my brother" now, in between pesky other activities.

― dow, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 00:38 (nine years ago) link

"Meeting My Brother"--another from xpost Path Into The Unknown, The Best of Science Fiction, no ed listed, intro by Judith Merril, US pb '68. Russian as hell, a moment-by-moment track of several time lines, topographies, can pratically hear Borodin or Shostokovich for that matter. Good oontrast of contemplation and acerbic exchanges. As usual, Merril's somewhat frustrated by the translation, but also says this story is " a romance<" pretty sure she means in the late 19th/early 20th Century sense of "a scientific romance, " as Wells tagged his. Also, "The central emotional problem involves elements which did more to shake my own preconceptions (especially about the regimentation of private life in the U.S.S.R) than anything I have read in a long time." Well,this is from the mid-60s apparently (anybody ever read the Soviet-era SJ mag Novy Mir? Is it still around?) Stalin was considered really really dead enough by then, that many years after Khrushchev's speech, acknowledging Stalin's "mistakes."

― dow, Saturday, 11 August 2012 14:58 (nine years ago) link

It's a great story. The idea of the real life impact of time dilation is a simple but powerful one. What are her problems with the translation though? There's no intro in my edition.

― kmfdotm (ledge), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:46 (nine years ago) link

Sorry ledge, she didn't find fault with the translation of "Meeting My Brother" (by Vladislav Krapivin, have to look up some more by him). She was was talking about the two stories I prev mentioned, "The Conflict" and "Robby", both by Ilya Varshavsky--the ones preceding "Meeting"-- and the one that comes after it, "A Day of Wrath, " by Sever Gansovsky. Haven't read that one yet, but don't see what her prob was w the Varshavsky translations. She doesn't indicate actually knowing Russian, but maybe the anonymous translator's English irritated her editorial eye. No editorial credit for anybody in my edition, but I mainly know her as an editor, the earliest I've found to mix contemporary (50s/60s)genre and non-genre,just whatever seems to work.

― dow, Tuesday, 14 August 2012
Any of you read Sturgeon's anthology of Soviet science fiction? What's it like?

Chairman of the Commission: You can read in several languages, are acquainted with higher mathematics, and can carry out certain kinds of work. Do you consider this makes a man of you?
Other: Certainly. Are people capable of anything else?
In "A Day of Wrath" (by Sever Gansovsky, another from Path Into The Unknown--The Best of Soviet Science Fiction), manimals have busted out of their Island of Dr. Moreau-type confines, having eaten one of their creators, reportedly also sometimes eat each other, and take over remote, densely wooded areas, where peasants (oops, ex-peasants) may collaborate them out of a pervasive climate of fear, of terror. The Govt. is nowhere to be seen, the manimals don't care and mostly don't bother to be seen, a popular reporter comes looking for a bit of morning edition sensation, with a quietly intelligent, all-too-expert guide ( talkin bloody, hard-won expertise). Shadowy yet blythe spirits of menance, vs. rational self-defense and somewhat capricious self-risk: traces of Orwell and Matheson. The guide/hunter is methodical like a Matheson hold-out, the high I.Q. critteroids strut around like O'Brien in 1984; might be some correspondences to Animal Farm as well. Those fuckers really are scary, but when they call, "Hey journalist, have you come to kill us? Come out and talk to us", I find myself wanting to second that--yeah, you're stuck there anyway, might as well ask a few questions. Might flatter the manimals enough to get back to your desk, and the guide could toss them a few copies of the published results. Also, I'd like to read the beasties' answers. Can see how they might lure/lull old school (our kind of) humans. Everyday dread can have its own droning. perversely attractive undercurrent--it's a system, the way these competent monsters generate it.

― dow, Saturday, 20 October 2012
http://retrobookshop.com/images/products/detail/105176.jpg

― dow, Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:48 (nine years ago) link

Direct from Russia today! Crazy person dancing on shoulder of party robot!

― ledge, Saturday, 20 October 2012 16:28 (nine years ago) link

Da!

― dow, Saturday, 20 October 2012

I think Sturgeon only wrote introductions to a series of soviet books. There's loads of soviet anthologies, maybe as many as 20 but I haven't dug into any yet.

xpost That cover image is long gone, alas, but koogs linked a later one w info etc.:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5290556-path-into-the-unknown

Glad to know there are at least 19 more, thanks!

"They put on their vacuum suits directly on top of the protective suits. Then they made their way back to the chartroom through the long gloomy tunnel with black walls which used to be the corridor. The walls of the tunnel were undulating slightly." Yes, because the walls, like the rest of the ship, incl the light fixtures, are covered with black eight-legged flies, stowaways from a recently visited planet. That's the Strugatsky Bros' "Ab Emergency CaseP", another one from xpost Path Into The Unknown. You can see the advantages and disadvantages of the translation here. I like how the walls undulate, but just slightly, quite enough. You also get to consider whether the biologist is more enlightened than his shipmates (very pragmatic they are, though one's sardonic as hell, another is spacey, if helpful). Seems like some 60s ambiguity re progress etc. sneaks through what Merrill's intro calls "s typical mid-Forties Astounding -type puzzle story and a 'pamphleteering' message against xenophobia."

― dow, Wednesday, 31 October 2012 15:27 (nine years ago) link

Weird--"An Emergency Case", that is.

― dow, Wednesday, 31 October 2012 15:28 (nine years ago) link

The translation's awkwardness mainly comes through towards the beginning of this story, ditto in some others.

― dow, Wednesday, 31 October 2012

rereading the bridge trilogy and the second one is not set on the bridge and only includes two people from the first one. have just paid full price (well 5 quid) for a digital copy of the third part, and will leave the hardback on the shelf.

funny what he imagines and what he doesn't. virtual reality / metaverse stuff, nano builders, deep fake revenge porn. but no mobile phones - they go to a love hotel for the internet connection...

This is really shit. I've been seeing this increasingly and I used to hold off buying print-on-demand stuff, assuming it would be there forever
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/s0phie/publishing_news_amazon_shuts_down_account_of/

Lulu tends to keep things up thankfully, but you never know.

Absolutely racist bullshit from Amazon, and daylight theft of their customers' royalties into the bargain.
More here: http://file770.com/oghenechovwe-donald-ekpeki-calls-out-amazon-kdp-for-shutting-down-his-account/

https://kittysneezes.com/a-guide-to-squeecore/
I've not read a great deal of the current core of the genre so I don't know how accurate this is but it definitely backs up things I've seen in the discourse and makes me think of the increasingly disneyfied art and YA aesthetics gaining greater dominance. Feels like there's been a culmination of criticisms that have been around for at least a decade, intensified in the last two years.
This caused quite a stir back when it came out...
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-widening-gyre-2012-best-of-the-year-anthologies/#!
...and now there's been no slowing down of writers riffing on classic stories, hugo speeches and blogs about hugo ceremonies get hugo nominations now. Things that are short and get retweeted a lot have a huge advantage and some are saying it has really damaged the quality of the nominated short stories, seemingly reminiscent of oscar-bait?
I think the podcast might mention Clarion workshops but it doesn't go into it much. But there's been criticism of how it gives wealthy people too much of an advantage and that workshops like these are possibly damaging to even the quality of writing.

finished Gibson's bridge trilogy which was perhaps better in my memory.

annoying that all ebooks now seem to be the American version whereas my copies of the original trilogy, certainly, were English with different spelling and punctuation.

and ocr errors as well. the central character is Rei Toei but is reduced to Rci Toci in at least one place. left single quotes instead of apostrophes about half the time.

http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/2021-in-review-part-one/
http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/2021-in-review-part-two/
http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/2021-in-review-part-three/

Absolutely racist bullshit from Amazon, and daylight theft of their customers' royalties into the bargain.
More here: http://file770.com/oghenechovwe-donald-ekpeki-calls-out-amazon-kdp-for-shutting-down-his-account/

― the great replacement bus service (Matt #2), Monday, 10 January 2022 22:44 (one week ago) link

Oy, this is really awful. Even if he had opened the multiple accounts, just randomly impounding someone's royalties is huge corporate thuggery

https://intermultiversal.net/athena-andreadis-desert-island-space-operas

Really dreadful story

Thread time. Well, the cat's out of the bag and I've been getting questions about this, so I guess it's time to break cover. As many of you know, for 3+ years I've been the all-consuming obsession of a small but dedicated cyberstalking group. 1/

— Patrick S. Tomlinson (@stealthygeek) January 24, 2022

Christ

Not sure if I should click or not.

https://intermultiversal.net/athena-andreadis-desert-island-space-operas

'space operas' in the link piqued my interest but i guess i'm just not in the mood for this combination of chandler style world building and desperate eco worthiness:

The youngster, eyes as smoky as her mother’s, felt unrepentant. She already knew starfire – they spent many nights on the foam. She knew of the landers, too. They had not been here long, said the Elders. They could not understand the People’s singing – yet they trod as lightly as the whisper of a calm sea. Many came to rest in her people’s domain, bearing the gifts of their kin. She longed to catch more glimpses of them. She wanted to encompass the whole world, sea and land, for her lays.

I don't know what Chandler style worldbuilding is but I think I get what you mean otherwise. Haven't read Athena's fiction yet but I've found her blogging interesting at times. I think I'd have some major disagreements but that's the usual. I happened to buy Kingsbury's Courtship Rite a bit before I read that interview.

I've been casually following the "squeecore" eruptions, which are amusing; essentially arguments about parochialism while firmly embedded in it. Anglophone SFF in all media has always leaned heavily towards YA/hero's journey w/ its associated attributes. #fantasy #sciencefiction

— Dr. Athena Andreadis (@AthenaHelivoy) January 15, 2022

Another writer, critique of techno-optimism
https://bloodknife.com/inadequacy-of-inspirational-scifi/

I don't know what Chandler style worldbuilding

https://chrisroutledge.co.uk/2006/06/28/raymond-chandler/

it's an old chestnut and an easy target but, well, it's funny because it's true.

(maybe you already know about that letter, i wasn't exactly transparent in my description)

I kind of like that stuff sometimes when it has a kind of jargon poetry, because really technical stuff is going to fly over my head. I did recently read a story about a submarine that was a bit like that and just pretty dull

had a quick look at the squeecore podcast, definitely think they've picked up on an aesthetic that we've noticed here before, more problematic when they talk about the politics and the intentions behind it.

holy shit on that Chandler thing being from 1953

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/s5mtre/whats_up_with_squeecore_and_superversive/hsyoqgn/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
This person does a pretty good job of summing up the major points. I think the podcast is doing a sequel because there's been a lot of response. There's a writer called Simon McNeil who had a lot of interesting points but I think his hopepunk piece suffered from a lack of fiction examples, he just focuses on manifestos
https://simonmcneil.com/2022/01/15/notes-on-squeecore/
https://simonmcneil.com/2021/12/30/hopepunk-a-genealogical-sketch/

Something I find really strange is how people (including Athena several years ago) talk about this trend and much of YA fiction having an aversion to a lot of deeper emotions. Aren't fans of this stuff all about "all the feels"?

I've never read Wendig but when people complain about him it sounds like a similar but different set of problems. I can't think of another SFF writer who gets dunked on for their style so much.

I listened to that podcast ep too, do wish they'd paid a bit more attention to the ahem craft of podcasting, yeah lag happens s but that's why you edit!

Initially thought there was a bit of a disconnect between the argument that SFF has become professionalised and that economics have made it so only financially secure ppl can write it but depressingly the more I think about the idea that well off ppl would nonetheless gravitate towards the kind of writing that makes them billionaires the more plausible it seems.

Whatever the faults of the argument tho the backlash certainly seems to have validated their critiques, a lot of "I guess you hate diversity" strawmanning at an argument put froth by a woman of colour and "I'm not gonna dignify that with a response" dissimulating.

A tweet thread

I have no idea if there is such a thing as squeecore as an overriding genre, but I do know most of the books that get pushed at me (I write for the Washington Post) tend to come with PR letters that emphasize fanfic terminology (shippable, etc), often position books in comparison

— Silvia Moreno-Garcia (@silviamg) January 18, 2022

Although this stuff might not always be the most successful in the wider world, it is in some of the online short fiction markets. I kept on thinking "there's more than 50 short fiction magazines and lots of variety between them", I keep discovering new ones, amazing how many have been going for years, but most of them probably have a very small audience. And it seems people who like fanfiction and YA most have become influential in the organized core of the genre. So Benedict got put on an industry predators list by the SFF Codex group for making fun of fan fiction and I think that's the most damning things about all this. Apparently there were even therapy sessions for people upset by what she said but she never got any apologies after she suffered a week of death threats and hacking attempts.

holy shit on that Chandler thing being from 1953

Just happened to pick up Jeff Vandermeer's nonfiction collection Monstrous Creatures today (I read it a decade ago and surprised by how much I've forgotten) and found this article in a slightly different version
https://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/10/16/the-triumph-of-competence/
Yet another piece about recently discussed complaints from years ago. There's links and many comments that are going to take me down rabbit holes.

xpost it's what ledge posted above: https://chrisroutledge.co.uk/2006/06/28/raymond-chandler/

Thanks. I saw it later. It’s the same thing, but it’s missing the punchline!

Barry N. Malzberg wrote a story called “Playback” with the whole letter at the front and then repeating the narrative part as the beginning of his own story.

You know, that IS a great punchline ...

There is also this.

What a line up for the two day @CityLightsBooks symposium, DANGEROUS VISIONS & NEW WORLDS: RADICAL SCIENCE FICTION, 1950-1985. Online & free to attend. Full agenda (which may be subject to change) & registration details here: https://t.co/JIxpseJGwF pic.twitter.com/G7KanCeTN9

— Andrew Nette (@Pulpcurry) January 29, 2022

Cool. I liked what I've read from Nick Mamatas. Assuming it's the same Mike Stax as Ugly Things MIke Stax.

read Tevis' Mockingbird. can't think what it reminded me of but was a pleasant (and shortish) read. maybe Asimov's robot stories. felt kind of 50s even though it was 1980.

same bloke more famous for writing The Hustler, The Colour Of Money, The Man Who Fell To Earth and, lately, Queen's Gambit, but I'd not heard of him before this.

Machen’s great friend A E Waite, scholar of the esoteric, was to present his theory in The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal (1909). Machen’s own idea, however, was that the Grail represented a tradition of a lost ritual in the independent Celtic church, suppressed but still remembered when the Roman church became dominant. He was influenced in this by the traditions of healing cups (and other relics) associated with Celtic saints in Wales, Cornwall and Cumbria (the latter was originally the Welsh-speaking Old North).
From Mark Valentine's "Centenary--'The Secret Glory' by Arthur Machen":
http://wormwoodiana.blogspot.com/2022/02/centenary-secret-glory-by-arthur-machen.html

https://themagnet.substack.com/p/the-mystery-of-the-jet-propelled

Yeah---it was a PlayHouse 90 adaptation too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jet_Propelled_Couch_(Playhouse_90)
This has links to Disney+ and Paramount+ for streaming the ep, supposedly---might be elsewhere for free: https://simkl.com/tv/2629/playhouse-90/season-2/episode-10/

Also an unfinished Sondheim project.

if we're gonna be mentioning television on this ILB thread then Talking Pictures TV in the UK is showing old Outer Limits episodes on fridays at 8.

(Donald Pleasance last week, David McCallum this week, Martin Landau next week)

Sorry,I just glanced at the Magnet piece, didn't notice mention of the Playhouse 90 adaptation or the abandoned Sondheim project (also now see that movies have been proposed). Had never read the article linked in there, with some plausible arguments for Kirk Allen being based, at least in part, on CS/PL, although if Lindner ever did out his patient, would be unethical, wouldn't it? But the author goes past the shilly-shallying Stovall's claims and denials about what Lindner told him that he remembers/doesn't remember/is sure he was told etc.
Anyway, I've had that same paperback eidtion on the shelf for many many years, finally just now read "The Jet-Propelled Couch" (will have to read the rest of the collection), and it's a hell of a story--- a bit neat, as noted by referenced skeptics, and so much on the nose dialogue too, though I suppose his defense for that would be that his records and recollection of the sessions are reworked as part of the balancing act, of revelation and identity protection---so it's creative nonfiction, proto-new journalism, meta-science fiction too. Not the best writing, but like a scenario or "treatment" for a film or other adaptation indeed. Hope somebody else takes a shot at it.

Shilly-shallying Stover not Stovall. The Fifty-Minute Hour is available as a “1 Hour Borrow” at The Internet Archive’s Open Library. That’s enough to read the “Jet-Propelled Couch” chapter. I guess it took me about an hour, yeah. Also worth a shot.

RIP Angelica Gorodischer and Richard L Tierney

I've started Adrian Tchaikovsky's Elder Race, a novella with a fairly neat trick. It has a highly advanced society (represented by a single character) and a primitive one who see the former character as a wizard and his technology as magic. Not an original idea, this story even borrows the outpost/watcher set up from a TNG episode; what makes it neat is that (so far) the chapters are narrated in turn by the 'wizard' and one of the primitives, so it alternates between SF and fantasy. I started his Children of Time a couple of years ago but abandoned it, can't really remember why; if this one turns out well I might go back to it or try something else of his.

> can't really remember why

arachnophobia?

he's another one who seems to always have something in the ebook monthly deals, Dragonfly Falling this month, but half of them are parts of series and half of them are fantasy so...

(which is book 2 of 10 and 700+ pages long!)

a short stay in hell by steven peck

novella about eternity and hell (my favorites!) based on borges's library of babel. very good! unbelievably bleak!

"Unbelievably bleak" has my attention already!