Lilacs Out of the Dead Land, What Are You Reading? Spring 2022

On a whim, started The Martian, which has been sitting in my Kindle library forever. So far, it's . . . interesting, but plodding. Not sure how you can make the story of an astronaut stranded on Mars dull, but Weir is doing his level best. Not having seen the film, I have no idea how this comes out, and I'm willing to stick with it to see, but it's not exactly drawing me in.

Biased: Uncovering the Hidden Prejudice That Shapes What We See, Think, and Do by Jennifer L. Eberhardt - eye opening as these things usually are, entirely US centric unlike say Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Pérez (not a criticism, just an observation). Leans very heavily on 'we took two dozen students and made them look at images of professional athletes and criminals while running on a treadmill and eating a sandwich' type research which, knowing about the replicability crisis in psychology, does make me slightly sceptical, unfairly or not. But also plenty of other statistical data, and hugely depressing stories of police racism and brutality, many of which were new to me, and other problems like innocent people systematically compelled into plea bargaining.

Also had one weird section where she describes going into a near panic attack when her husband hires a car on a caribbean island where - gasp - they drive on the other side of the road.

I read that a few months ago and thought it quite good. Seems to be being cited a lot since.
I then went and listened through a number of podcasts where she was guesting.
I think she is pretty interesting.
Also read Sway by Pragya Argawal and Corruptible by Brian Klaas around the same time. Thought they were all pretty good.
Will have a look at Invisible Women if I get teh chance.

I think that's my favourite of this genre, statistically heavy (not complicated, just lots of paragraphs with 'x% of women in y% of countries spend z% of their time doing v') but the most eye opening in terms of varieties of bias you might never have thought of before - e.g. gritting roads not pavements in winter prioritises commuters (typically male) not pedestrians and carers (more typically female); one study where they gritted pavements first found more savings from reduced pedestrian accidents than the extra cost.

gritting roads not pavements assume you mean gravel roads or any way something like that vs. pavements ok, but then what does they gritted pavements mean? Changing from pavement to gritted?

maybe you call it salt - putting stuff on the road (or pavement (i.e. sidewalk)) when it's icy to prevent or ameliorate ice & subsequent skidding & accidents.

Or in fewer words, de-icing.

I've been reading Ian Sansom, THE NORFOLK MYSTERY (2013), either side of a trip to Norfolk. The first volume in his series about 1930s popular writer Swanton Morley, it has the advantage of showing how the narrator first meets Morley and giving a lot of introductory material, etc - interesting to come at this having already read a later volume.

The Spanish Civil War background is stronger though fighting for the International Brigades is presented as a bad thing and a murderous folly. There is a curious political aspect to these books which seems to me a bit more reactionary than I had expected.

The book is if anything funnier than THE SUSSEX MURDER (which wasn't really about a murder), with some super set-piece dialogues in which Morley takes on an authority figure. In this book he is constantly reciting Latin phrases. I have no idea what any of them mean. Fortunately he usually then translates them, but not always. Sansom seems to have cut down the Latin later in the series, perhaps realising that most of us haven't a clue what it says.

I was standing at a University of East Anglia bus stop the other day and saw a bus headed for Swanton Morley, which was the first moment I was aware of the source of the character's name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swanton_Morley

I just finished one of Ursula K. Le Guin's early novels, Planet of Exile. My relationship with her books is hard to explain, in that I find them well-written, evocative of the worlds they describe, thoughtful, carefully constructed, but not sterile. In short, I think they are good.

But I find I have to space my readings of her books well apart, because there is something about them which feels so consistently the same that I need to let the previous one fade out of memory or it feels like a repeat of the same book. I'm at a loss to say exactly what it is about her books that prompts this feeling. I just recognize its existence and can't locate the cause. So I wait a year or two between books.

About to start The Ides of March, Thornton Wilder's fictional autobiography of Julius Caesar. Because Our Town overshadows everything else, Wilder remains an unfairly neglected novelist.

Yeah, The New Yorker had an in-depth profile of him several years ago, with appealing takes on lesser-known works---what have you liked by him?

(Or in fewer words, de-icing. Should have gotten this from "winter," sorry.)

He understood American hucksterism. Try Heaven's My Destination and The Eighth Day, both released in paperback in the last two decades.

Rafia Zakaria The Upstairs Wife
book about family life in early 70s Pakistan. I think its like a family memoir . Mainly about life after partition and things. Quite interesting. I had enjoyed her book on White Feminism so wanted to read more. Would enjoy reading her book on The Veil too, but couldn't find it in the library system.

Salsa Sue Steward
erudite well written book on the South American music style(s). I've just begun it so she's talking about the history of how slavery was managed in Cuba which ceased to be as mixed as possible because counterproductive. Turned out that trying to prevent people from being with people of their own background to prevent attempts at uprising meant they felt really isolated and didn't work to their best. (Interesting like does that indicate they were like human and therefore maybe shouldn't be enslaved?) so the enslaved were regrouped along tribal lines or similar and given some access to music making and things. Helps make the work force a more productive one. & ensuing from this traditions were developed which later on become the basis of the popular sound.
Well looks like its a good book . Think I have seen it before so not sure why I haven't had it and read it._

In this book he is constantly reciting Latin phrases. I have no idea what any of them mean. Fortunately he usually then translates them, but not always. Sansom seems to have cut down the Latin later in the series, perhaps realising that most of us haven't a clue what it says.

I remember this happening a lot when I was reading Poe - not just latin either, but also French, Spanish, maybe German? Not entirely sure whether he assumed everyone reading would know these languages or whether he was just showing off.

But depending on Sansom's audience, most of his readers might have indeed understood latin? Was reminded by reading Molesworth that Latin used to be a basic element of a public school education.

Reading the first volume of James Kaplan's Sinatra biography. Front cover blurbs by the Telegraph, the Daily Mail and the Wall Street Journal, as if to tell me that I must be a cunt if I'm interested in reading about Sinatra.

To clarify: Ian Sansom is a living writer and this book is from 2013, so it's not a matter of a historic readership.

Perhaps many of Poe's readers did indeed know multiple languages.

ah ok sorry didn't realise it was contemporary

Thought people did this as way of showing off their erudition or at least mock erudition. It was definitely done quite often back in the day.

I guess it can be done now as a way of harkening back to that old tradition.

Take a look at The Recognitions, for example. First two things you see are a quote in Latin and a quote in German from Faust.

I guess it can have a narrative function, as with films - the narrator hears people talking in a foreign language, but doesn't know what they're saying, and nor does the monolingual reader, thereby building suspense, or identification with the fictional protagonist.

There was supposedly a time when Every Schoolboy Knew Latin so there’s that as well. I never studied it, although I did click on the Duolingo course a few times, but I feel like if I stare at it long enough it starts to make sense. For instance, just went to a Clozemaster collection of Common Latin Phrases and seeing things like

De (et coloribus) non est disputandum.

What do you mean by that?

looks like there's a word missing to me (i did study latin, up to A-level, where i did very badly bcz i didn't do the revision lol)

the more common phrase is: de gustibus non est disputandum, concerning taste there is no argument (meaning there's no point arguing)

coloribus means colour

a better translation is "there's no argument against someone's tastes"

(not sure where colours come into it, apparently it was already a cliche in ancient rome and no one knows who said it first)

this guy has cut back on using latin apothegms bcz he's used all the ones he knows

Yes, the full quote was De gustibus (et coloribus) non est disputandum. Was trying to clean up some format and a very important word went missing.

Guess my point might have been that there are some Latin phrases and cliches that are pretty familiar even to the general public whereas others would be recognizable to those with an Old Skool education or playing catchup to such.

parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus

"Nunquam minus solus, quam cum solus," is now become a very vulgar saying. Every man and almost every boy for these seventeen hundred years has had it in his mouth. But it was at first spoken by the excellent Scipio, who was without question a most worthy, most happy, and the greatest of all mankind.

parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus

Then there’s that one attributed to Galen that probably belongs on I Love TMI.

As Mark S said: I don't see where colour comes into it.

I don't know what your other Latin sentences mean.

this guy has cut back on using latin apothegms bcz he's used all the ones he knows

This is a good theory!

google translate is surprisingly good at a first rough aproximation!

= go to google, type in "latin english" (without the quotemarks): then drop the phrase you want to read into the "latin" space and a translation will apear in the "english" space -- tho it's sometimes a bit literal

Think the colour part is some interior decorating thing.

"You cannot argue with taste, but honey, that puce is just hideous."

Lol.

Most if not all of the Latin phrases mentioned so far you can just search the whole thing and find a translation, usually with commentary.

“This screensaver is killing me.”

There are probably over a hundred latin 'tags' so common across a fistful of european cultures that they're like the various taglines from Shakespeare known to most English speakers.

People in other European countries may know 100+ Latin phrases.

Having lived in England a long time, I would suggest that a majority of people in England do not.

James Redd: Yes, one can use Google Translate to translate phrases from foreign languages. This is often highly useful. But I didn't particularly want to be doing it twice per page while reading this novel (which I generally read away from a computer).

my ereader has French, Spanish and English dictionaries built in, which is handy when reading, say, Cormac McCarthy

i'm actually quite interested in which phrases have got bedded into which languages -- which of the following do the french or the dutch or the swedes also say?

status quo, de facto, persona non grata, bona fide, sui generis, sine qua non, ad infinitum, et cetera…

and what -- of similar ilk -- do they say that we don't?

googling says french also uses: ad hoc, vice versa, de jure/de facto and bona fide

Sorry about that, the pinefox. Believe it was sinkah who first mentioned Google Translate, I didn’t specify a particular search engine or software. Feel like this whole discussion is at risk of turning into a mise en abyme.

Wonder if someone can make a bad joke about a French band that is the equivalent of Status Quo.

my pitch for that band is little bob story

Ha, never even heard of them but they seem to fit the bill.

I guess it can have a narrative function, as with films - the narrator hears people talking in a foreign language, but doesn't know what they're saying, and nor does the monolingual reader, thereby building suspense, or identification with the fictional protagonist.

Wonder if someone can make a bad joke about a French band that is the equivalent of Status Quo.

Ça plane pour moi.

Pinefox, pinevixen

I looked up one of the first long Latin sentences at the beginning of that book and had a lot of fun doing so. Wonder if I should post my results here or start another thread or maybe just revive one of the three extant ones about Latin.

mihi labitur!

(technically belgian but)

ego rex lecti sum!

(i think this project deserves its own thread)