Thread of Wonder, the next 5000 posts: science fiction, fantasy, speculative fiction 2021 and beyond

Patti Perret - Faces Of Fantasy

Roughly a decade after Faces Of Science Fiction, this time with UK and Irish writers added to Americans, a great deal more women authors but even more light skinned. I think fantasy was at its peak of going into European history more rigorously, the peak of the renaissance fair-hey nonny nonny-celtic-horsegirl- aesthetics. Terri Windling writes a fairly comprehensive introduction to the genre and I think she was a very influential editor at this time.

Both Nancy Springer and Judith Tarr are pictured with their horses. Storm Constantine and Patricia Kennealy-Morrison look like rock stars (both of them did work in the music business). The general settings are more grassy and leafy, more of the writers look like they're trying to dress and live in places like their characters.

There's way more surprises in this book, more writers I had never seen before and many I'm just hearing about for the first time. Poppy Z Brite seems to be the only author best known for horror and I wonder why such a gritty and punky writer was chosen? J. P. Donleavy, Steve Stern and Joyce Carol Oates are here. There's a lot of famous children's authors who I imagine never hung out at fantasy conventions much. Evangeline Walton and Edward Whittemore appearing shortly before they passed away (Whittemore never got to submit a statement).

I'm not sure if this was as good a read as the previous book, maybe it eventually just got repetitive for me but I think a lot of the surprise appearances kind of make up for that and the photos are overall nicer. I'm a little sad Tanith Lee didn't make an appearance but I imagine they tried to get her.

I kept thinking it would be nice to have a new book like this but the geographic expansion would make this really difficult and social media has made this kind of book arguably redundant. Now you can see as much of your favourite authors' pets as you like.

Gave up on 'to sleep in a sea of stars', it was utterly devoid of character in the writing, setting, plot and er characters.

Michael Chabon recreates the sf&f section of his childhood bookstore:

https://✧✧✧.thre✧✧✧.n✧✧✧@mich✧✧✧.cha✧✧✧/post/CvVrj-TLIK7/
https://msha.ke/handmadeplaylists#the-shelves-of-time (scroll down for links)

that's not an email address you silly parser. https://www.threads.net/ (at) michael.chabon/post/CvVrj-TLIK7/

read ‘machinehood’ by s.b. divya

it’s the late 21st century and everyone lives in a gig/meme economy in which people need endless smart drugs to make them even vaguely competitive with computers

our heroine is a hyper-competent ex-commando who would gladly lay down her life for The American People but feels betrayed (if not Stabbed In The Back) by Politicians

someone issues a manifesto demanding equal rights for sentient machines, although no proof of sentience is available

there are various attacks around the world, all of which our heroine is present for

ultimately she must sacrifice herself by becoming basically a cyborg, which also for some reason grants her a satori

it’s fucking dire

> Michael Chabon recreates the sf&f section of his childhood bookstore:

what is beyond the 98MB link?

(the bloke resizes a 4000x3000 image into a space 1/25th that size on the page so i don't have a lot of faith in him)

what is beyond the 98MB link?

beyond? behind?

it's a hi res version of the small image you can see on the screen.

the small image i can see on screen is, if you open in new tab, 4000x3000

ah right, i couldn't open that in a new tab. the small one is a 16000x10000 jpg. the large one is the same res but a png.

^What alien tongue is this - where is my universal translator?

Charles Platt - Dream Makers Volume 1

Sometimes people will say how awfully SFF writers speak of each other these days, sometimes people say it was never really different decades ago, I saw this book series once used as an example. A lot of these writers knew each other so I wonder if some of them remained friends despite the criticisms but some of them really do trash each other.

There has been lots of different editions of the Dream Makers books, none of them complete, these 2021 editions leave out the Hank Stine (now Jean Marie Stine) and Andre Norton interviews with no explanation. But I'd urge you to get these newest editions because the new introduction and "historical context" afterwards to the interviews double or maybe even triple the substance and entertainment; Platt is able to say a lot of things now that he couldn't in the 80s and talk about his further relationships with the writers. I found some of the introduction and the afterwards about Disch, Bester and Brunner quite sad.
I already knew lots of bad things about Harlan Ellison but there's some truly appalling behaviour described here that I hadn't heard about before. Platt's criticisms of Damon Knight were very interesting too. But there's lots of funny stuff here too and almost everyone comes across like a really vivid character. A E Van Vogt is especially eccentric (and its nice to hear him talk about TJ Bass because I never hear anything about him). Algis Budrys was fascinating too.

A recurring subject is the increasing commercial pressures that were coming in with the late 70s and that has never really stopped. When people talk about the artistic freedom of the late 60s to the mid 70s, and the idea that it's been downhill since then, it's striking what a short period of time that was.

Getting a feel for Platt's sensibilities was interesting. Initially I knew about him only as a new waver who rubbed some people wrong but he's actually somewhere between new wave experimenter and golden age optimist, very idealistic about what science can still do for us. He was even disappointed about the extent of the backlash against John W Campbell.
He wanted to do a third Dream Makers book but he said no publisher would pay for this now and crowdfunding was probably too steep a challenge.

This book and the next were a real joy. Highest recommendation, lots of fun.

Charles Platt - Dream Makers Volume 2

The introduction in the first book serves for both of them so I'd urge you to get both.

There's more surprising interview choices in here (DM Thomas, William S Burroughs, Robert Anton Wilson, Alvin Toffler, L Ron Hubbard among them). The most likely criticism of these books is the small number of women, and Platt said he wasn't enthusiastic about some of the women writers his editor wanted but he still gets good interviews from them. His Tiptree interview in particular turned into something quite special, but I think she wasn't one of the editor's suggestions.

Keith Laumer's interview is a bizarre spectacle (with a sad reason behind some of that), but I now understand the puzzling photo of him in Patti Perret's Faces Of Science Fiction.

Janet Morris made a really strong impression and despite my distrust of some of her ideas (but there's plenty to disagree with from many of the writers, maybe even most of them), she's probably the author I was most excited to buy/read after reading these interviews (this is partly because she was one of the few I knew very little about).

If there's anything that makes this book slightly lesser than the first volume it's that several of the interviews in this volume don't have a "historical context" afterward, I guess he didn't have much new to say about those writers?

There's an interview at the end with Platt, he described the idea of people wanting to know more about him as a "strange urge" but I feel that urge and I'm enjoying his new autobiographies so far.

Buy both Dream Makers books, they're really great. Make sure you get the 2021 editions.

Just finished Player Of Games and enjoyed it, tore through the second half of the book. Was a little underwhelmed, though ... Azad is sold as the deepest, most sophisticated game of all time, and central to their culture. So I'm expecting some kind of complex plotting by the Empire beyond a few hapless assassination attempts. And sure the point was that for strategy and ruthlessness you can't beat the Culture, but eh.

xp -- I bought the first Dream Makers book when it came out and thought 'dang this is really heavy stuff.' Not long after that, Carter Scholz reviewed it for The Comics Journal, something along the lines of 'the only takeaway for aspiring sf writers is to give up now.' I sold my copy decades ago and have been thinking for a few months about re-acquiring.

Hey, Carter Scholz seems to have a new short story up here: https://slate.com/technology/2023/08/no-regrets-carter-scholz.html

Bonus points for the appearance of an ILX screenname

Those Dream Makers books have got my name on them.

I know I said it twice already but definitely make sure you get the 2021 editions, the new sections add a ton of substance. I was disappointed that Leiber, Vance and Morris didn't get afterwards sections.

There's a great part at the start of the Janet Morris interview when she talks to some cranky guy shouting in a bookstore. And Platt describes a fight he had with Ellison where they both grabbed each other and Platt said "I'm going to sit down now"

Kindle ebook has them

Some reviews say the formatting is bad

Not so bad.

Okay, Volume II formatting is really bad

I am reading Cordwainer Smith, THE INSTRUMENTALITY OF MANKIND: 1979 collection of stories 1958-63, it seems.

It seems that Smith formulated a vast intergalactic future history and his 50-odd stories narrate this, across thousands of years. So far the first story has been about Stalinists developing telepathy, then survivors from Nazi Germany landing on a future earth to join a 'rebellion' against a mysterious master race, in alliance with talking animals.

It doesn't feel especially coherent, or at least, not very thoroughly explained. Maybe the dozens of other stories do that.

I can see that Smith had ambition (like Asimov) and imagination, but I don't yet find great aesthetic quality in the work.

What do you mean by 'aesthetic quality' - and how is it present in Asimov's writing?

If you're looking for coherence in Smith - or consider that to be an essential quality in fiction - then you're going to be frustrated by this collection. It's just a pleasure to luxuriate in his wild imagination; to go 'out there' with him. Story isn't everything.

OTM. Also, you really should have just started with “Scanners Live in Vain.”

Comparing Cordwainer Smith to Asimov is pretty much fightin’ words.

I didn't say that aesthetic quality (assuming it exists or can be defined) is present is Asimov's writing.

FWIW I think Asimov is one of the least aesthetically accomplished important writers I've ever read.

Insofar as I have compared Smith to Asimov it is to say that both are ambitious in their history-building; no more and no less.

I have started with a particular book that came to hand. I didn't have, or especially desire, a guide to tell me what book to start with. I started at the beginning of the book.

Hope you will get more into his thing as you proceed.

Pretty sure an ilxor's recommendation got me to read The Stars My Destination, thanks for that.

[Guy who is obsessed with Roger Zelazny] I'm getting real Roger Zelazny vibes here

(he did pick up an unfinished manuscript by Bester so)

Kind of regret getting this edition because it was cheaper, so I have Asimov staring out from the cover

https://www.isfdb.org/wiki/images/1/1a/MLO1904.jpg

While convalescing, I semi-randomly grabbed 'The Best Science Fiction & Fantasy: Volume 7' (2012) from the library, and I'm going to pinefox it. Halfway through so far:

Christopher Rowe, 'The Contrary Gardener' - it's ok, not exactly a banger for an opener. Kinda interesting concept about growing tools and ammunition as agriculture and being enlisted to use them against municipal robots that are becoming self-aware, but it's a bit muddled.

Eleanor Arnason, 'The Woman Who Fooled Death Five Times' - Fantastic traditional folk tale, I'm a total sucker for this mode (especially if it involves Death). Apparently it's a folk tale by aliens? Might have to check out her books.

Andy Duncan, 'Close Encounters' - I bailed. I'm feeling kind of allergic to hardscrabble rural Southern settings right now, it felt forced and I skipped it. Spoiler, there are aliens.

Peter S. Beagle, 'Great-Grandmother in the Cellar' - Loved it. It's a magical setting but very much reads like a folk tale. Dude wrote The Last Unicorn!

Nalo Hopkinson, 'The Easthound' - Post-apocalyptic story about some plague/virus that turns people into rabid zombie beasts once they hit puberty. So gangs of kids are surviving and scavenging but have to kick members out once they start to get too old. Good stuff.

Caitlin Kiernan, 'GOGGLES' - Post-apocalyptic story also about kids, living together in a bunker with a strict headmistress and sent out to scavenge among packs of wild superdogs. Not as good as the previous story, weird that these were set next to each other.

Gwyneth Jones, 'Bricks, Sticks, Straw' - Fussy and elaborate sci-fi story about A.I. software clones of people who are out on the moons of Jupiter doing research or something. Couldn't get into it, I bailed.

Molly Gloss, 'The Grinnell Method' - Long and incredibly boring, I bailed after a number of pages about bird-watching and landscape descriptions in the 1930s.

Theodora Goss, 'Beautiful Boys' - Pretty good one, basically positing hot mimbos as aliens programmed to deposit their semen and then split.

Ellen Klages, 'The Education of a Witch' - Very good, about a little girl who's obsessed with the witch in Sleeping Beauty (original Disney version) and is discouraged by the adults around her, and you can imagine where it goes.

Paul McAuley, 'Macy Minnot's Last Christmas on Dione, Ring Racing, Fiddler's Green, The Potter's Garden' - Couldn't get into the writing, I bailed.

Adam Roberts, 'What Did Tessimond Tell You?' - A perfect short story, by FAR the gem in this collection so far. It's sort of a theoretical physics mystery/thriller about a team who's about to win the Nobel prize, but whose members keep dropping out after talking to a particular individual. I don't want to say more but it's worth seeking out, and also has a perfect ending. Will have to check out his other work.

Neil Gaiman, 'Adventure Story' - a very short and nothing-y story, included only to put his name on the cover I'm sure.

Robert Reed, 'Katabasis' - The longest story here so far and very odd, and I ended up being really into it. It's essentially about hardcore high-gravity hiking, done by humans who are immortal, bored, and bioengineered to have instant healing (and are constantly falling down and breaking bones, which is only a minor inconvenience). And their alien porters. Surreal but cool.

Peter Dickinson - Troll Blood - Norwegian meta-folk tale, I liked it.

(to be continued when I finish the second half of the collection)

https://imgur.com/a/jxkbGx6

Pinefox's post got me to dig out the Cordwainer Smith volumes I inherited from Martin Skidmore - complete with a review slip, always like to see those. 'Scanners are in vain' is in The Rediscovery of Man volume. Neither collection has 'On the storm planet', my favourite Smith story - as genuinely strange as the best of PKD. In his introduction to The Instrumentality of Mankind, Frederik Pohl writes that: "Every important work of fiction is written partly in code" and that's a point I wanted to make about Smith's writing - it's extremely coded/symbolic, as befits an expert on psychological warfare (as the 'real' Smith apparently was).

I also love the fact that John Slack's Smith parody (found in his The Steam-Driven Boy collection) is called 'One Damned Thing After Another' - so accurate!

Apologies, I'm experimenting with imgur, let's see if this one works:

https://imgur.com/perWNuz

Bollocks.

https://i.imgur.com/perWNuz.jpg

Ha, I just reread Sladek’s Asimov parody the other day.

Congrats on not having Sladek fucking autocorrected to Slack, also.

“Broot Force,” by ICLICK AS-I-MOVE

xpost
'Broot Force'? Killer opening line - "Suddenly Idjit Carlson felt chagrin."

It had been building up all day, and now it fell on him like a ton of assorted meteorites.

Is Sladek the same person who wrote 'Solar Shoe Salesman'? (Which I have only heard of, not read.)

re INSTRUMENTALITY, I am currently unsure whether those '14 stories' are all connected, as several of them are presented as 'Others' - outside the mythos / future history etc, perhaps.

Yes

Think the parodies originally appeared in F&SF and now can be found in The Steam-Driven Boy.

It seems to me that there is potentially a lot to be dug up or deciphered about the relation between Smith's writing and his real-world concerns. Pohl states that an archive MS exists that explains references directly. As I mentioned earlier, it's curious in a way that when he posits a far future he then populates it with ... people from Nazi Germany, and their descendants.

Another aspect of his fiction that I don't yet understand is the racial / species hierarchies, which definitely involve some kind of talking animals. This reminds me of Empson's comments on talking animals in ALICE, and of DR MOREAU, and of Lethem's GUN with its evolved animals.

Unclear as yet to me how this all fits together, if at all.

Thrilled to see poster Jordan invoke the name of the pinefox to describe their excellent account of a volume of stories.

From his asterisked names, it appears that Sladek had Beerbohm in mind as precursor.

Good parody is a tremendous form.

Hopefully you will come to appreciate Cordwainer Smith, one of the great originals of SF, despite superficial galactic-spread similarities with Isaac Asimov and obvious Wellsian borrowings.

I like Asimov - especially the robots.

Pleasingly, my copy of The Stream-Driven Boy sits right next to my copy of ... Norstrilia by Cordwainer Smith:

https://i.imgur.com/z27MByR.jpg