Thread of Wonder, the next 5000 posts: science fiction, fantasy, speculative fiction 2021 and beyond

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-4_JpY8Jc0

Just South of the Unicorns
A teenager runs away from home to move in with someone he's never met, his idol, the person he respects most of all — a fantasy writer named Piers Anthony. Logan Hill reports. (32 minutes)

Thanks, that's interesting.

Can anyone explain or can anyone give a link explaining why some print on demand books take months sometimes? I ordered something in July that promises a delivery between November-Feburary, the most extreme case I've had but I decided I could wait. Some p-o-d books are promised for months when it seems likely nothing will materialize.

I have had cases where a p-o-d book is promises for four months before they tell you they can't send anything (title is probably deleted or there's some glitch). There is a book I ordered in April that keeps getting promised without any date but I'm sure it won't come.

some years back, iirc, it was not economical to print individual copies on demand, so they would wait for a number of orders to come in and print them all at once. i would have thought that technology had since solved that problem, but maybe not

I'm guessing that violent writer Rusch was referring to in her blog was William Sanders, the dates and the Shetterly article seem to line up
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Sanders_(writer)

read 'the iron dragon's daughter' by michael swanwick. weird, surreal, sometimes quite off-putting. but worthwhile imo

its vibes made me think of lanark

(nb i am not at all suggesting that if you liked lanark you should read this)

although i think it's time for me to reread lanark

always thought about reading that and loved Lanark so…

should you or any of your SFF force be caught or killed, the secretary will disavow all knowledge of your actions

good luck ken

I just read Damon Knight’s “Four In One”. Tremendous

Oh yeah. Good one.

I have it in one those Galaxy one-offs.

One of those. With a forward by Silverbob.

And an Ed Emshwiller cover.

Forgot about Knight’s famed Van Vogt takedown.

All of those Galaxy Project books have intros by Maltzberg or Silverbob. And usually Ed Emschwiller covers.

Ahem. Emshwiller.

Been a while, will take another look if I come across it again (will check lib'), but remember my impression that the endlessly inventive The Iron Dragon's Daughter seemed too diffuse in its effects, or really FX draining rivulets from sense of narrative momentum and human or posthuman or alien interest, also narrative period---although, moment by moment, it was v. readable: yet another item I would have enjoyed more if still doing drugz (maybe)

From a tyme when Swanwick was publishing tons of stories and novels, in a brainstorm ov invention it seemed.

might anyone here like to explain/defend michael moorcock?

i've only recently dipped into it -- but i feel like its general inaccessibility, and the fact that forever no one knew where to start, and the magical phrase 'the eternal champion' are providing ~depth~ for a series of pretty average stories?

Sinkah to thread!

ooh looking forward to this

Sinkah doesn’t like him iirc

Have a look here: Michael Moorcock: "a man who excels at saga-making in a timeless magic world" or like the movie Yellow Submarine w/o any of the good bits

ty!

to expand on my whitehot critical judgments of 22 years ago, it is fair (to moorcock) to point out that even shakey -- who robustly defends his work and mocks those who demur (me) -- doesn't have that much time for the various fantasy trilogies (CORUM) and sextets (HAWKMOON) and lol dodekalogies (fkn ELRIC); i was happily giving a kicking to the worst of his work.

those were the titles i imbibed and came exhaustedly to dislike as a teen -- enough so that i simply never bothered starting any of the books others admire. i think i only read the very first ELRIC and got bored with familiar-trope overload and bailed. the CORUM trilogy is silly as per that thread; the HAWKMOON series i took against for some reason related (as i now dimly think) to the nastiness of its sexual politics? but it was 50 years ago and i was a kid -- i can't be bothered to reread to confirm but i don't remember enough to rest weight on this judgment any more. as a concept the ETERNAL CHAMPION roaming the MULTIVERSE was more about drawing in readers who prefer to buy fiction in potential box sets -- i don't recall MM putting in the interesting work such a notion might generate (as for example DOCTOR WHO has done now and then) but as i say i maybe bailed before i reached it

MM famously wrote an essay on tolkien which ppl occasionally bring up to say "so correct!" about -- but i don't actually think it's very good. it affirms that he basically despises fantasy as a genre and readers of fantasy too, and this comes across in all the above: he just didn't care that much and these speed-churned books reflect it. (he was, as the thread notes, shovelling out crappy pulp to give himself an income while he helmed NEW WORLDS into a deserved place in new wave SF history, while also now and then touring with HAWKWIND, which can't have been restful.)

i chucked out almost all the MM books i owned when i went off to college, except the corum books -- the silliest but also the easiest to reread. i have reread them now and then (last time prior to starting that thread); there are a handful of vivid images that stick with me -- viz a desert plain of dried blood ending in a bottomless chasm, a vast god's castle shaped like corum's naked girlfriend, the death-cavern that god's eye-and-hand beckon the recently offed to do battle with corum's foes -- but i wouldn't start with them and i never read any of the books ppl say *are* good to start with…

i definitely liked bob haberfield's corum cover design (much more than his hawkmoon cover design):

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aMwe40B8C0o/Ta8FJxxnQOI/AAAAAAAACc0/heP9ThyTjbI/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Moorcock_Corum.jpg

Moorcock a good stand-in for Kilgore Trout.

You sure you don’t mean Philip José Farmer?

Maybe it taken a while but I got the impression he likes fantasy more, he's talked at length about the importance of romanticism. Loves Mervyn Peake of course, early fantasy Poul Anderson, Fritz Leiber and a conflicted fondness for most of the founders like Dunsany, CASmith. I don't think his interest in science fiction endured quite the same or his style of SF was maybe too out of step? He said something about not being so interested in outer space.

I was thinking more along the lines of Vonnegut's original description of Trout. His prose was frightful; only his ideas were any good.

I've read a variety of good shorter fiction; maybe he's just better at that, like a lot of writers, though it doesn't pay as well, of course.
For instance, "The Lost Canal" was a good Red Desert under the stars corporate warfare asskicker (well, as wiki specifies: an adventure about a man in search of a bomb he needs to disarm.[2]) commissioned by George RR Martin & Gardner Dozois for Old Mars(2013).
More recently, in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction (blanking on its title, but) he started with what seemed like and awkward battleground situation---maybe he was self-conscious about the responsibilities of handling serious historical materials, since this was set in 21st Century Middle East---but when the leading man got to ancient city of personal historical connotations, where he's greeted by a still-alluring old flame now with (still having?) sinister connections---that's where he should have started, that part worked.

Hey, look at all this Praise for Michael Moorcock

“The greatest writer of post-Tolkien British fantasy.”
―Michael Chabon

“Moorcock’s writing is intricate, fabulous, and mellifluous.”
―Walter Mosley

“Moorcock weaves history, myth, and alternate realities into a seamless whole.”
―Publishers Weekly

“He is a giant. If you are at all interested in fantastic fiction, you must read Michael Moorcock.”
―Tad Williams

“A major novelist of enormous ambition.”
―Washington Post

“He is the master storyteller of our time.”
―Angela Carter

“The 20th century’s central fantasist.”
―John Clute

“No one at the moment in England is doing more to break down the artificial divisions that have grown up in novel writing―realism, surrealism, science fiction, historical fiction, social satire, the poetic novel―than Michael Moorcock.”
―Angus Wilson

Anyone read "Behold the Man" recently, I wonder.

It's been a while since I read that Tolkien essay but I think that to say he despises fantasy, hmm, I think it very much depends on how you define the genre? Which is probably a thornier question with fantasy than, say, sci-fi; the history feels a lot more fragmented. But also "contempt for the genre and its readers" ain't the worst premise for any artist to start from, I love a lot of stuff that comes from that place.

Anyone read "Behold the Man" recently, I wonder.

no but thx for the display name inspiration

Behold The Man is a nice short read.

I don't think someone who hates fantasy could write Wizardry And Wild Romance, it contains that essay knocking Tolkien, CS Lewis and Richard Adams but it contains a lot of praise for many fantasy writers (sometimes mixed with negatives) but I've read his summations of mainstream writers before and he was trashing a lot of them. He's recently done a new fantasy story to a new small press magazine.

Totally confused that he gave a blurb of praise to an early Brandon Sanderson novel, who a lot of people consider a very formulaic fantasy novelist.

The Various Light is a thoughtful, distinctive novel. There are not the dramatic incursions often a feature of fantastic and supernatural literature, so some readers may find the book a bit subdued. It is measured in its pace and careful in the development of its theme. Unusually, it depicts the otherworldly through human relationships, and it does so subtly. Its flawed characters are well-realised and some have an original savour. The overlapping of the unearthly into this world is handled with finesse. I think it is a book that repays our attention. Unfortunately, there are not that many copies about.

(Mark Valentine)

I’m currently enjoying Therapeutic Tales by “R Ostermeier” published by a local small press called Broodcomb. It’s a strange venture - all of their authors appear to be fictional characters, writing about the same, unnamed ‘peninsula’ with a mixture of Aickmanesque ‘English unease’, folk horror in the vein of Machen and experimental fiction influences. It’s not clear how many people are responsible (one seems unlikely), but it has a very coherent vision.

https://broodcomb.co.uk/

reading 'house of binding thorns' by aliette de bodard and it is fundamentally meh at best. (iirc i liked a novella on a space station that she wrote)

but there is one secondary character who wears a perfume/cologne that smells of 'orange blossoms and bergamot' and she has to mention it every single time he appears. honestly 'bergamot' appears 18 times in the text, what the fuck? not even robert jordan packed his cliches so tightly

I've enjoyed some of her short fiction on Clarkesworld and elsewhere.

ShariVari - I have seen people speculate O. Jamie Walsh has been writing all their books.

If so, he’s an extraordinary talent.

I finally finished that Best Science Fiction and Fantasy vol. 7 (2013) collection. Here are my much-anticipated reviews!

Ted Kosmatka, ‘The Color Least Used by Nature’ - a realist story about a shipbuilder in Hawaii during the first stirrings of encroaching colonialism. Only the tiniest dusting of magical elements (a few references to walking trees that are used for the boats), but very well done.

Rachel Pollack, ‘Jack Shade in the Forest of Souls’ - I was worried at first that it would be about a cool magic dude playing poker, but the rest was about a cool magic dude trying to release a soul from a purgatorial state. I got big Sandman vibes, but it was much better than I thought it would be from the intro.

Kelly Link, ‘Two Houses’ - I had already read this in one of her collections. Astronauts on an interstellar journey waking up from stasis and telling ghost stories. Love her writing, although this one seems like it could have been the basis for a novel, or at least been longer.

Jeffrey Ford, ‘Blood Drive’ - realist right-wing dystopia where gun ownership becomes compulsory, and all school kids and teachers have to be armed from junior high onwards. Predictably ends in bloodshed.

Kij Johnson, ‘Mantis Wives’ - short and very fucked up and disturbing story about mantis mating, where just biting the male’s head off becomes passe, and the females create ever more baroque ways of torturing and killing their mates (who are kind of into it, but no one’s really sure?).

Aliette de Bodard, ‘Immersion’ - Everyone has a immerser device that gives you augmented reality help with your surroundings and personal/cultural interactions, lets you appear as an avatar to others with the device, translates languages, etc., but becomes addictive / destroys your personality / eventually becomes impossible to take off. Created by a colonizer society who only use it intermittently because they don’t really need it, but has deleterious effects on the Chinese-esque colonized planet who has to interact with the tourists. I get it, but didn’t think it was executed particularly well.

Pat Murphy, ‘About Fairies’ - Sort of scattered bits about a woman who gets hired to design a children’s toy and app involving fairies, her dying father, and Peter Pan. Not great but I did learn a lot about the original Peter Pan books.

KJ Parker - ‘Let Maps to Others’ - Another winner! Starts with a rivalry between academic historians who are both obsessed with a long-dead explorer, who in turn stumbled across a mythical island and never divulged the its location. One historian finds the missing scroll that confirms the other’s research and burns it just to spite him, and there are some good turns from there. Loved this one.

Karin Tidbeck - ‘Reindeer Mountain’ - I had already read this in her collection ‘Jagannath’, but it’s a nice Swedish family portrait x (literal) fairy tale, nice enough to read again.

Steve Rasnic Tem & Melanie Tem - ‘Domestic Magic’ - About a young man whose mom is chaotic, possibly bipolar, possibly abusive, but probably/actually a witch who puts her daughter in jeopardy to encourage her son to develop his inherited abilities. Not bad, maybe a little too close to home for me.

Meghan McCarron - ‘Swift, Brutal Retaliation’ - Two young girls dealing with the ghost of their brother who recently died from cancer, and who primarily appears when they pull mean pranks on each other. Thought this was well-written and the household was vividly depicted, but it sort of stops rather than ends.

Linda Nagata - ‘Nahiku West’ - Hard sci-fi that does a lot of world-building for a short story, involving a cop who polices the illegal use of body mods/genetic enhancement tech (“quirks”), which is punishable by death. Also has an element of the whole city being fined for the crimes of an individual, making everyone serfs in debt to some larger system and unable to leave the city. This was a good one.

Catherynne M. Valente - ‘Fade to White’ - Alternate history where the cold war resulted in nuclear war and McCarthy is president in the post-apocalyptic USA, where ‘50s puritanical values rule and young teens are placed in arranged trad marriages. Shot through with random interjections from an advertising editor giving notes on various dystopian commercials. It’s ok, basically all scene-setting without adding up to much.

Margo Lanagan - ‘Significant Dust’ - A young girl has left home and moved somewhere in rural Australia where she’s waiting tables in a diner amid frequent UFO sightings. The flashbacks to why she left (after semi-accidentally pushing her sister off a wall at the beach, leading to her neck-down paralysis) are very sharply observed & striking, but everything else around them are kinda whatever.

Ken Liu - ‘Mono No Aware’ - The protagonist is on the only ship to leave Earth before it was destroyed by a giant asteroid, with reflections on what it means to be Japanese (he’s also the only remaining Japanese person in the universe) and self-sacrifice. It’s ok.

Are all these stories from 2013? Or is that just when the book was published?

Published in 2013, I think they're mostly from 2012?

Suck air and grab clusters.

Is the editor Strahan, Horton or someone else?

That one is Strahan (who I'm not otherwise familiar with tbh).

Yeah, he's done several of those, will check library for that one. Thanks, Jordan. I've thought about hiring a student to type out all my bookmarked faves from anthologies---I usually come away with at most about five keepers per volume---since they're often too unwieldy for the scanner and I'm too lazy.

Finishing up my first read of Pat Cadigan's Patterns(1989). Dense and intense, with some re-reading already required before I get to the end. Some of it seems like high-level apprentice fiction, with maybe one or two so far coming off more like ideas for stories, but there's always an emotional core, even when I could use a little more character development in the plotdrive---but those are mostly the really early ones; later she credits Ellen Datlow with helping her to get it together, and I can see why.

Always, she delves into new/adaptive forms ov exploitation, with the exploited ones adapting as well, frequently in disconcerting ways---leaving me to say "Good luck with all that!" while jumping out of the way.