Which book do I read on my Xmas break ILB?

Notes:

* to finish, also a bit like **
** re-read I am hurt @ 2016 and want to understand the madness of our times - these will explain our current predicament
*** Never read 'em - 2017 is our last year on earth and I want to go out on a high
**** re-read: Is Trump a fascist? Tune in and find out
***** The anarcho versh of the above - never read this and I want some hope
****** and a few other bits by Anita Brookner - its gonna be ok in the end we will die old, bitterly and quietly

minima moralia is neither big nor complicated, it's the closest TWA got to a buzzfeed listicle

Minima Moralia would pair very nicely with Man Without Qualities, I think. I feel they would complement one another especially well upon re-reading - each would draw out a lot of interesting things from the other, I'm sure.

TWA was pretty complicated when I read him ten years ago. Its probably as easy as a beach read now, since we are now all living in his world - and always have been. Recognise innit.

Voted Serge but I should pick up MWQ again.

sorta feel like we're in a deeper weirder pit than twa can help us with. maybe it's back to Celine and Bataille for me in 2017

sit the kids down in front of Salo, get them ready for life

That reminds me of an anecdote I read somewhere and never forgot where this person's mother took him to see Salo at 18 and told him effectively that this is what the world is: man subjugates man.

Coolest mum ever (and I love my mum).

lol i saw lisztomania with my parents which is nearly the same thing

*watches trailer* would go to a lisztomania/Salo dbl bill

rick wakeman shd score salo on ice

sorta feel like we're in a deeper weirder pit than twa can help us with. maybe it's back to Celine and Bataille for me in 2017

Am juggling Wilhelm Reich's "Mass Psychology of Fascism" with a book of Robespierre's speeches. Yes, things are that bad.

^^^ o_O
I was just thinking that 'some Reich would go along nicely with that'

Of the 'difficult moderns', I would say that anything by William Gaddis - but especially JR or Carpenter's Gothic - comes closest to summoning today's dark spirits - the lethal banal chatter of alt-capitalism

w/ a side order of good old Pynchonian paranoia, obv

atm reading Burke and Samuel Johnson. Ethical language of the 18th century is basically escapist science fiction comfort food at this point.

i read gravity's rainbow during the endless election and mostly felt annoyed and sort of impatient with pynchon's tics. wrong kind of displacement probably

voted for 'catch-22'

Catch 22 feels like appropriate fiddling as Rome burns.

quijote or catch 22, both fun reads.

Catch-22 is in this bcz I came across a nice old-skool paperbk of it last month

JR is certainly something I've been wanting to get around too for about most of my adult life.

I have owned JR and The Recognitions most of my adult life and not once cracked their spines. Maybe I should now I have finished Moby-Dick and Against the Day. Have been eyeing Nicola Barker's Darkmans though.

Also The Sotweed Factor.

Nothing says Christmas like Dostoevsky.

I have owned JR and The Recognitions most of my adult life and not once cracked their spines. Maybe I should now I have finished Moby-Dick and Against the Day. Have been eyeing Nicola Barker's Darkmans though.

Also The Sotweed Factor.

Oh wait

Man Without Qualities > Crime and Punishment > Minima Moralia > Don Quixote > Gravity's Rainbow > The Struggle Against Fascism in Germany > Catch-22

was srsly thinking of bottom's dream (orig German Zettel's Traum) by arno schmidt) but it's FIFTY SIX POUNDS by god.

also v long and difficult and not sure its visit to political and psychic subterranean is going to be as rewarding as yes celine or kafka say.

prob wd vote for... idk, nothing q catches my eye here. will muse.

Nothing says Christmas like Dostoevsky.

^^^

actually i think i'll read crime and punishment after i finish memoirs of hadrian

voted catch 22

because it's christmas time and you should be enjoying yourself

but i'm a huge quixote fan, but it's a big book (book 1 obv) with lots to absorb, so save it when you have more time and feel like really digging deep

Been ages since I've read any of these, but I remember Catch-22 being pretty enjoyable .

Catch-22 all day every day

Slightly surprised at how popular Catch-22 is proving to be. Maybe a search will prove me wrong but don't ever recall that much talk about this book.

catch 22 because its lighter

am going to take a run at gravitys rainbow this xmas

Crime and punishment, without a doubt. So immersive yet speaks of the times too.

^^^ o_O
I was just thinking that 'some Reich would go along nicely with that'

― do you play to win or are you just a bad loser? (snoball), Thursday, 8 December 2016 21:29 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah the fourth one iirc

Another one for "Catch 22". I keep meaning to get around to reading "Don Quixote". NEXT YEAR

(went with darkmans: two chapters in and i'm baffled and gripped -- no idea where it might be going)

Don Quixote is funny enough to help forget what the actual world is, also it sagely warns that books make you mental which is true as it gets

was srsly thinking of bottom's dream (orig German Zettel's Traum) by arno schmidt) but it's FIFTY SIX POUNDS by god.

how much does it cost?

yeah was gonna say the kindle is your only man there

/was srsly thinking of bottom's dream (orig German Zettel's Traum) by arno schmidt) but it's FIFTY SIX POUNDS by god./

how much does it cost?

lol.

xp yeah tho i seem to have lost my kindle annoyingly. been reading on my phone/tablet which is less satisfactory.

i vote don quixote btw.

Looks like I gotta create some Victor Serge-loving sock accounts

the tunnel

Could 2017 be the year I read the man without qualities? (Ans: no. Might read Quixote tho)

JR & the recognitions are both a great time once you get into their groove - JR probably one of the funniest books I've read

the tunnel

i ordered this but it seems to have gone missing in amazon's grotto.

The same thing happened to me with the audiobook edition! (so I downloaded it)

Synchronicity - just come across a copy of the recognitions in the british heart foundation shop. The stupidly enormous dalkey archive edition, looking distinctly unread, £3.

it seems hard to get. i also got in the heart of the heart of the country but haven't started it yet.

You'll like those I think - iirc gass once said the story "order of insects" was the work he was most pleased with. The novella "the pedersen kid" is the most narratively conventional thing he did until middle c but still unmistakeably gassian

back on topic I got a big book of brechts poems, never got with him before - seemed too dour & plain - but the anger & humour is connecting with me today

His poetry is great.

I like the idea of Crime and punishment but have previously been put off by starting reading Constance Garnett translations. They feel bowdlerised but I'm not sure that's based on a misguided expectation. Does she read accurately to his style?
Or are there better closer translations that keep the feel better?

I remember Catch 22 being a good read but that was about 35 years ago.
& I always wanted to read Don Quixote but still haven't. Have just read Ford Maddox Ford being rather dismissive of Cervantes as a writer in March Of Literature though. But not sure how objective anything in that is. Would be great to read through everything FMF mentions in there though. Wonder if it is possible without somewhat exclusive dedication.

Could 2017 be the year I read the man without qualities? (Ans: no.)

Hahaha, it me. Though who knows, if I remain a shut-in for 2017 anything could happen. I think this coming year I will finally get round to reading C&P, seeing as I do actually love all the rest of the Dusty-dusty I've read.

Apparently I already voted in this poll but I've completely forgotten what for, will rep for Minima Moralia and Don Quixote, though. Catch-22 is good, but it's not as amaaaaazing as people in this thread seem to be making out.

PE was a birthday present from a friend who is a big fan but even he (the friend) acknowledges the of-its-timeness of ford, he was telling me about the appalling casual racism of the good soldier eg

I don't remember casual racism in the good soldier but I'm wite and read it at age 18 so it's probably there. Great book though! I read that Coetzee novel (seemed pretty autobiographical though) about trying to write a dissertation on the lesser-known work of FMF and learning that it's lesser-known for a reason. I don't really recommend that one though.

came close to voting dostoyevsky but decided C+P actually isn't the perfect book for christmas break the way karamazov or demons are. more like a book for instead of studying for finals.

haven't read catch-22 since high school but was beyond delighted then. love the way it crisscrosses its narrative landscape (prefer this to slaughterhouse-five's literalized use of same structure), the cast is big and vivid if i guess prob shallow, it has my favorite arch-capitalist of postwar fiction (haven't read JR), the prose is infectious deadpan (the book is "breezy" which is a neat trick for a purgatorial war novel). also the mike nichols movie isn't much rated but i enjoy it a lot for three out of four of those same reasons.

I like the idea of Crime and punishment but have previously been put off by starting reading Constance Garnett translations. They feel bowdlerised but I'm not sure that's based on a misguided expectation. Does she read accurately to his style?
Or are there better closer translations that keep the feel better?

some recent argument about garnett in this thread, w me taking a wishywashy con position -- Anna Karenina -- but obv it's about tolstoy, whom i think she fits better? dostoyevsky's style is sloppy+urgent (never-forgotten sentence from the translator's preface to the edition i read in hs, which i think was david magarshack: "suddenly is one of the most frequently used words in crime and punishment") and the usual complaint is that garnett smooths it over, deadens some of its anxiety. understand pevear/volokhonsky skepticism given their takeover of the field and sometimes insistent clumsiness but do think they are prob at their best w dusty; he is their favorite.

don't know that it's the right time for GR but i might feel differently about against the day.

i have a copy of jelinek's german GR translation sitting unread on the shelf, for some reason it has been beckoning to me lately

I'm reading the pevear/volokhonsky right now and it's wonderful - very readable and it feels perfect for the moment

C+P I am reading (whether xmas or not) is Magarshack. I started reading it at an A&E unit earlier this year, felt perfect (as these things often do). Not sure translation really matters when it comes to Dosto so much. I know a new trans by Oliver Ready came out earlier this year (or last).

Certainly want to tackle Karamazov at some point too.

back on topic I got a big book of brechts poems, never got with him before - seemed too dour & plain - but the anger & humour is connecting with me today

― banfred bann (wins), Saturday, 10 December 2016 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In between whatever book ILB tells me to read I will be reading the edition of The Complete Poems of Brecht I scored a few weeks ago. I read my library's copy and its imo its one of the great 'Complete' editions of anybody's poetry. Partly bcz iirc it acted as a biography in the best sense -- his desires, his intellect, his politics, his loves, his exile(s) wrapped up in this bundle.

I will be reading the edition of The Complete Poems of Brecht I scored a few weeks ago.

this sounds an impressive project, link to mp3 pls

i've only read Don Quixote of these. so, don't listen to me. but, it was great

deems will do.

flopson I will do what ilb tells me to do.

tbh it looks like you could read catch 22 p comfortably before the results and then just pick the one you liked the look of best

Cool that Jelinek translated GR, I had no idea. Always fun to learn things like that - e.g., Walter Benjamin translating Proust into German was a lovely surprise when I found out.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

flopson I will do what ilb tells me to do.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, December 12, 2016 4:02 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok well if Cervantes wins by one vote, flip a coin

i have a copy of jelinek's german GR translation sitting unread on the shelf, for some reason it has been beckoning to me lately

How did Jelinek handle "You never did the Kenosha Kid?"

my girlfriend is reading Catch-22 for the first time and loves it. i've never read it. seems like the ultimate "you'll either get assigned this in high school, maybe college, or never read it" book

.....

whats she studying

glad i wasn't assigned catch-22. a lot of catch-22 i read in secret, holding it under the desk, while i was supposed to be taking notes on episodes of friends in the purgatorial sophomore year english class i'd been demoted into after flunking freshman honors.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

solidarity to my fellow trotsky voter

Will you heed the poll results?

What Crime and Punishment translation do you have out of interest? Also, Brothers Karamazov is the quintessential winter book and imo worth all the hype it's ever received.

How did Jelinek handle "You never did the Kenosha Kid?"

welp…

(1)

TDY Abreaktionsstation,
Spital zur Hl. Veronika,
Bonechapel Gate, E 1
London, England
Winter 1944

An den
Kenosha Kid,
Hauptpostlagernd,
Kenosha, Wisconsin, U.S.A.

Geehrter Herr!
Habe ich Sie je im Leben, auch nur ein einziges Mal, belästigt?
Hochachtungsvoll,
Lt. Tyrone Slothrop

Postlagernd,
Kenosha, Wisc., U.S.A.

einige Tage später

Tyrone Slothrop, Esq.
TDY Abreaktionsstation,
Spital zur Hl. Veronika,
Bonechapel Gate, E 1
London, England

Geehrter Herr Slothrop!
Niemals.

Der Kenosha Kid

(2) Der kleine Klugscheißer: Mach halblang, Opa, ich kenn doch eure Dielenwärmer, mir ist der «Charleston» unter die Sohle gekommen u-un der «Big Apple» auch!

Der alte Veteranenschwofer: Aber, jede Wette, niemals der «Kenosha», Kid!

(2.1) K.K.: Sooo'n Bart hat das für mich, der «Castle Walk» und selbst der «Lindy»!
A.V.: Aber, jede Wette, niemals der «Kenosha Kid».

(3) Kleiner Angestellter: Ja, und seitdem schneidet er mich, und da hab ich mir gedacht, vielleicht ist es wegen der Slothrop-Sache, ich meine, falls er mich da irgendwie für verantworthlich –
Vorgesetzter (herablassend): Sie niemals, der Kenosha Kid hat wirklich andere Dinge im Kopf als …

(3.1) Vorgesetzter (verblüfft): Sie!? Niemals der Kenosha Kid! Hat wirklich andere Dinge im Kopf als …

(4) Und als jener großmächtige Tag sich verneigte, da Er uns in Flammenschrift all die Worte in den Himmel geschrieben, deren wir uns jemals bedienen würden, die uns noch heute ergetzen und unsere Wörterbücher füllen, da ermannte sich der kleine Tyrone Slothrop, unsterblich in Brauchtum und Liedgut, und stellte dem Kid mit piepsiger Stimme diese einzige Frage: «Und warum niemals ‹der›, Kenosha Kid?»

Diese Variationen über die Worte «Niemals der Kenosha Kid» rotieren durch Slothrops Gehirn, als sich der Arzt aus weißer Helligkeit zu ihm herabbeugt, um ihn zu wecken und mit der Sitzung zu beginnen. Schmerzlos gleitet die Nadel in die Vene seiner Armbeuge: Natrium-Amytal, zehnprozentig, jeweils ein Kubik, wie indiziert.

(5) Leim aus Lynn oder Kleister aus Cleveland oder Klebstoff aus Oklahoma. Jacke wie Hose. Aber niemals der Kenosha-Kitt!

(6) (Tag des Aufstiegs, Tag der Opfergaben, das Volk hält ihn heilig. Fette sieden, Blut tropft ins Feuer und verbrennt zu salzigem Braun …) Sie haben das Charlottesville-Schwein erledigt, check, das Forest-Hills-Füllen, check, (leiser werdend) das Laredo-Lamm. Check. Oh-oh. Moment mal. Was haben wir denn hier, Slothrop? Noch niemals ein Kenosha-Kitz? Dann aber los, Slothrop!

- - -

Im Schatten, wo Schwarz und Weiß ein Pandamuster auf sein Gesicht malen, dessen Flecke aus wucherndem Narbengewebe zu bestehen scheinen, wartet der Verbindungsmann, den zu sehen er die ganze weite Reise unternommen hat. Das Gesicht ist so schlaff wie das eines Haushundes, und sein Besitzer zuckt mächtig die Schultern.

Slothrop: Wo steckt er? Warum zeigt er sich nicht? Und wer sind überhaupt Sie?

Stimme: Den Kid hat man geschnappt. Und mich kennst du sehr wohl, Slothrop. Errinerst du dich? Ich bin Niemals.

Slothrop (mustert ihn eingehend): An seiner Stelle? (Pause) So hat er also doch, Niemals? Der Kenosha Kid …

I haven't read Catch-22 since i was in college, but a couple years later i brought my battered paperback to the 5th Ave Book Fair for Joe Heller to sign.

You should ignore the poll results and follow the Sot-Weed Factor recommendation upthread. It's perfect for Christmas, full of adventure and anti-imperialism and people shitting their pants.

so's the poll-winner.

hang in for Book 2 btw, that's where the Borgesian magic really takes off

good winner, stoked for the picaresque madness etc.

was interested how Catch 22 wdve worked for you. read it early on several times and loved it - not sure i wd ever want to pick it up again. at this remove my memory of its manner and voice makes it seem both frenetic and monotonous and unnappealing. that said it's clearly a v strong and continuous comedy of administrative manners and absurdity, and has some small great set pieces (Major Major Major Major). Also I'm not sure I emotionally got some of the treatment of love and death in it. Wdve been useful for it to get the ilx commentary!

ok well if Cervantes wins by one vote, flip a coin

― flopson, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 00:02 (yesterday) Permalink

lol NV

strawclutching season

Never read Don Q myself - Martin Amis (I know, I know) once said about it: "“While clearly an impregnable masterpiece, Don Quixote suffers from one fairly serious flaw: that of outright unreadability.”

He should know.

ford madox amis

.....

whats she studying

we're out of college, she's just reading it for fun

Hotel du Lac 1

poor show ilx

Amis might have read an old translation. you should read Edith Grossman's, julio. more readable than stuff written in engligh at the same time

Shame about Hotel Du Lac, did you vote for it soref?

(Matt yes saw your tweets on Soft Weed Factor - will look at it in 2017)

Thanks everyone - enjoyed the thread and I'll start as soon as I get hold of a copy tomorrow

re: Grossman - maybe, I'll have a scan and see whether I feel comfortable with what I find. I wouldn't say there would be too much of a difference I'll be able to discern between various modern translations.

Nice, thanks. Pretty direct except for the clever workaround in (5).

oh, i see. i didn't know 'kitt', i was wondering what she was doing with 'leim', not remembering adhesive materials being a part of the original gag.

chaval

si necesitas ayuda con algunas palabras aqui me tienes

a por ello!

ugh obvious voter fraud

I went to the alehouse and missed my chance to vote and now I'm unhappy with the result. What kind of a monster does that make me?

idk about that Tim but I am frankly appalled at your behaviour - never seen anything like it tbh.

I got a cheap-as-chips paperback of this (Tom Lathrop on translation duty, who sounds like a bit of a crank)

I have the cheapo Wordsworth Classics edition of Don Quixote. Anyone know if its a decent translation?

my v distant recollection is that it's fine. i think, unless you're a stickler for how it maps on to the style of the romances which it was fondly killing, it matters less than in some other examples (rabelais for instance, which in the wordsworth is the v enjoyable and frighteningly inauthentic urquhart translation iirc)

biggest issue with the wordsworth ed was the bloody leading or font size or whatever of the imprint

i read it in its original spanish, but i remember a prof ranting about chapter sequences in different versions

for the purpose said in this thread, not sure it really matters what translation for now

Lathrop's review of Grossman's translation. I note the term "man in the street" appears in the first page.

biggest issue with the wordsworth ed was the bloody leading or font size or whatever of the imprint

― Fizzles, Friday, December 16, 2016 7:13 PM (three hours ago)

thats an issue with all of them really

one of the pleasures of reading it in spanish (hope I'm getting this right as it has been a long time) is that while the spanish it is written is archaic, don quijote uses even more archaic spanish because of his obsession with courtly romance etc.