Thread of Wonder, the next 5000 posts: science fiction, fantasy, speculative fiction 2021 and beyond

Time to launch another lifeboat to the stars. Previously: ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

All aboard the Strato-Cruiser!

DO U SEE, I’m a stranger here myself.

Singing thread title to the tune of the Theme from Underdog

Thread of Wonder
5000 posts

Wonder Thread
Wonder Thread!

Thread of royal beauty bright!

Cool, except PLEASE change "Sci-Fi" to "Science Fiction"; true headz will respect it more.

Seriously, change that shit.

If a mod wants to a mod can, now to read some skiffy some I can make a real contribution to the thread.

some

In thee beginning (not really, butt a big ol goodun, where I came in)
rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

That rolled from 2011 to 2014, I believe.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/P/B08F9XYGVQ.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SX500_.jpg

Kindle daily deal today. seems odd that it doesn't mention Gagarin by name.

also listed, a Tchaikovsky book, Doors of Eden. anyone? i liked the one about the spiders, i didn't like ironclads.

just finished The Ministry For the Future. almost comically unsubtle and didactic in its politcs. the last hundred pages or so were "scouring of the shire" bad. first half is excellent.

started that -- the first scene is harrowing, but i instantly lost all interest when things shifted to the ministry itself. i suppose no one dramatizes vast bureaucratic processes better than KSR but it's a low bar, and i'm not really up for doom right now

read 'hench', which has a jokey premise -- underemployed young woman seeks placement as a villain's henchman through a temp service -- but turned out to be fierce as well as funny

started jo walton's 'the just city'; it's a little precious but i'm liking it a lot so far

as everyone says about recent KSR, it's actually very optimistic. the first scene though good grief.

Yeah, if the future is remotely like that KSR projects I'd be a hell of a lot more hopeful than I am now.

the last hundred pages or so were "scouring of the shire" bad.

I am struggling with this sentence.

Yeah.

ha! do you mean you're struggling with it syntactically or morally?

Uh, aesthetically? The scouring of the shire is a highlight!

I'm more bothered by the lack of a comma in 5,000 than I am abt sci-fi tbh

Commas are only for numbers of five figures and up as far as I'm concerned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0
x10

Almost posted that embed 10x ina old-school JW Noizeborad style.

I'm sure I talked about some of this in the previous thread about hanging out with horror people mostly then SFF people and then when you go back to horrorland, most people in SFF land start seeming really uptight and conversations have so many restricted areas and I have to respect what people aren't willing to discuss but I find it occasionally frustrating. And then there's this area of horror which is like the children of Dennis Cooper and it's lovely how relaxed they are and talking about what drugs they're taking all the time.

https://amphetaminesulphate.bigcartel.com/
https://www.clashbooks.com/
https://expatpress.com/shop/
https://www.apocalypse-party.com/books.html
https://www.infinitylandpress.com/books

I generally like SFF fans but I do feel like a lot of them (even a lot of the progressive ones) still want stories that are easy to swallow and are probably afraid to look at their dog's anus.

Only thing is, the blurbs for some of these authors can be completely ridiculous and leave you hanging, not knowing what it's like or about. "Britney Spears singing love songs to you while Baudelaire gives you an enema" or some nonsense like that.

Ha, exactly.

Think I started a thread about that once.

When Author X was Compared to Author Y by Author Z

nothing more riveting than people talking about their drug regimens, very transgressive

I'm a complete teetolaler and I'm not even into drug talk but my point is it's nice to hear writers talking in a more carefree way. It's probably significant that the horror genre largely escaped the culture war and there's less people out to get each other.

Like this crap is still going on in SFF land
https://dorisvsutherland.com/2021/04/06/baens-bar-the-utterly-incompetent-case-for-the-defence/

i haven't the patience to delve into what you consider 'culture war' 'crap' that's 'easy to swallow'

tbh i've seen way too much of my cat's anus, but nor have i considered cramming something up there and calling it art

honestly you are fucking creepy as hell; maybe you should stick to to 'open-minded' horror boards where you can discuss what you want to do to your waifus with no judgment

but nor have i considered cramming something up there and calling it art

Does anyone do this?

Old Lunch was asking maybe two years ago about problems with reactionary horror people but as far as the fiction/poetry side goes it's really minimal compared to SFF, it's been said they're more easy going and get on better together.
The drawback is maybe the low brow attitude, too much easy amusement with juxtaposing high and low culture and the shit eating grins (see lots of horror author photos) and it does annoy me when people feel they have to present dark or gross subject matter in a jokey way, I'm regularly guilty of it too and it's often my first instinct to joke about some of these things. I think people do this because if they keep a straight face about it, they're worried people will think they're crazy.
But I think sometimes humor and punky attitude doesn't let people process things as well, I'd rather the subject matters weren't considered so transgressive or frightening, it makes peoples lives more difficult. So it's nice when people are just more at ease with it all, but the transgression is undeniably part of the appeal of some of these writers.

There's been a lot of good buzz about this one
https://www.apocalypse-party.com/negativespace.html

Going to be weird hearing “George R.R. Martin Can Fuck Off Into the Sun, Or: The 2020 Hugo Awards Ceremony (Rageblog Edition)” read out at a ceremony.
https://www.tor.com/2021/04/13/announcing-the-2021-hugo-award-finalists/

https://www.tor.com/2021/04/13/a-brief-guide-to-the-extraordinary-fiction-of-vonda-n-mcintyre/

http://file770.com/discon-iii-declines-to-comment-on-code-of-conduct-issue-about-hugo-finalist/

A little bit heartbreaking how many SFF authors despise each other and the awards nominations intensifying it all.

How many people nominated for a Hugo alongside Isabel Fall this year celebrated the removal of her story or contributed to the harassment campaign against her?

I think I count 3 so far. I really hope she wins.

— Experiencing A Significant Poggers Shortfall (@mechanicalkurt) April 13, 2021

The entire SF/F community came out and said "if you don't write about being trans in the way we think you should, we will attempt to harm you."

This is especially angering because it was an open secret that literally all of Chuck Wendig's writer friends were sex pests.

— Qualia Redux (@QualiaRedux) April 15, 2021

and some nice animals. What's weirder than the giant bunny in the first picture, is the way that guy is holding the pilot's head

One great sub-genre of retro sci-fi art: Confusingly Placed Animals pic.twitter.com/P0rmh9WG7I

— 70s Sci-Fi Art (@70sscifi) April 15, 2021

Jess Nevins - Horror Needs No Passport

This starts with Nevins explaining his frustration that there has been very little survey or study of international horror fiction and that he did this book because nobody else had. It sticks to the 20th century (with occasional background and influential writers from further back), skips USA, UK and a few other english speaking countries but there is still a bunch of english fiction included from other countries. Nevins doesn't say which writers he has actually read himself, he quotes other scholars evaluations quite a lot but I did get the impression he was voicing his own opinions about most of the japanese writers (who are surprisingly well represented in english translation) and these were some of the most enjoyable parts.

It might have been inevitable that many of the writers end up sounding very similar and my eyes often glazed over the descriptions of their approaches (what subgenres, where the horror effects are coming from). But every once in a while there's really tantalizing or unusual sounding stories about Africa, Indonesian martial arts horror, a story about a shepherd, Tarzan starring in Israeli horror adventures, italian extreme horror and amazing sounding gothics from all around the world.

It notes a handful of comic artists, Suehiro Maruo is oddly absent but I was pleased to discover Daijiro Morohoshi who I might have seen a little of but most of what I found on search was new to me.

The political/cultural background for every country is detailed, if horror was frowned upon or even outlawed (often in soviet countries, Germany and Japan censored under post-war occupation, some people writing horror only in exile), whether what each writer was doing was considered high art or trash from the gutter. It seemed like quite a lot of the South American writers were politicians.
A few times Nevins writes about authors not pursuing just "mere fear" and it seemed as if it was his own opinion (?), I don't understand why someone so devoted to horror would feel that being scary for it's own sake wasn't enough, given how that approach can be as intense and memorable as anything else when it's done well.

It is mentioned that Ewers was a Nazi but not Strobl, somehow.

No cover credit for Utagawa Kuniyoshi.

I do wish there was some sort of guide about the availability in english of these books. Perhaps Nevins was concerned it would date the book too much and that people might not bother searching for newer books if they weren't already in an english list? I spent a while checking isfdb and amazon for many of the writers but I didn't have the patience to research every writer that sounded promising. A few were indeed published after this book.
Sad that I probably won't hear about most of these authors again. If a particular writer has sufficiently high status, there's a good chance Penguin or some other classics publisher has them in english, a good deal of this stuff goes unnoticed by most horror fans and I can't blame them too much for not catching them all.

This could and should be an important building block for the future of horror. It's pretty great and I bought Nevins' Horror Fiction In The 20th Century, which can be considered a companion to this.

I can't remember who the writer was but one of the unique ideas I came across in the above book was from a writer in exile from a dictatorship who wrote a novel in which even gods are powerless against the goverment, which just seems like a horribly depressing idea. Quite a few south american stories were mentioned in which all the characters are completely fucked and have nothing but terrifyingly bad choices available.

I didn't know that books aimed at railway travelers was such a big thing in India. Which makes me wonder about "airport novels", do publishers and even writers really spend a lot of time thinking about what people want to read at an airport?

https://locusmag.com/2021/02/paul-di-filippo-reviews-the-society-of-time-by-john-brunner/

I like the idea of Brunner but haven’t really been able to read.

Brunner’s supporting cast, including the Jesuit time-travel expert, Father Ramon

Another one for my 'Catholics in spaaaaaace!' list.

Never read any Brunner meself, sounds intriguing but this (re: Stand on Zanzibar) puts me off: Some examples of slang include "codder" (man), "shiggy" (woman), "whereinole" (where in hell?), "prowlie" (an armoured police car), "offyourass" (possessing an attitude), "bivving" (bisexuality, from "ambivalent") and "mucker" (a person running amok).

Elizabeth Moon's Remnant population: emo sf in the Le Guin mould. Good aliens and bad humans, though the humans aren't all that bad, and the dice are stacked rather heavily in favour of the aliens - not that Le Guin didn't indulge in a bit of dice stacking herself. Enjoyable but somewhat cosy and convenient.

Also for fans of (at least) 5000 posts, this Rollin Speculative looks like the first, b. 2011, and is where I came in: (hey thomp, get back here):
rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

Didn't mean to drop the g, sorry.

https://web.archive.org/web/20251204012520/https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/14/lemaffair14.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20251125045833/https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/5/lem5art.htm

^that whole useful website of old issues of *Science Fictions Studies* had now gone off the web ... because of Ubik!

Read Pamela Dean's Tam Lin after Jo Walton mentioning it - very much a blueprint for Among Others; interesting companion to both Diana Wynne Jones' Fire and Hemlock and Donna Tartt's The Secret History. Have you read it, in orbit?

(cautiously reading a few fantasy-of-manners books that seem as indebted to Georgette Heyer as much as Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell - not as much crossover with cosy teashop fantasy as might be expected)

^that whole useful website of old issues of *Science Fictions Studies* had now gone off the web ... because of Ubik!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Fiction_Studies

I'm not sure what happened but there used to be a lot of articles from that journal at that website until the end of last year

Here is a description: https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=sfstudies

Oh wow, so current articles here: https://online.ucpress.edu/sfs--via your link, thanks (think you used to link some of their older articles).

choose one (1) best type of cover art for this children's fantasy series

THE IRON GARDEN SUTRA by a.d. sui -- okay; not as good as their prize-winning novella. inventive for the amount of physical trauma a character can suffer yet still survive

NONESUCH by francis spufford -- liked this a lot, almost entirely due to the non-SF elements. fantastic(ally messy) female protagonist

READY PLAYER ONE by ernest cline -- corny and ridiculous garbage . . . but i didn't regret (finally) reading it, perhaps due to insomnia

Seems I've finished a short story, rarely enough: folk-psi, 364 words. Any recs. for a good flash fiction site (or other that publishes such shorties)? Prefer ones that pay, but will consider any good 'uns.

I could just post it somewhere, but also prefer audience.

I hear that Submission Grinder is the place to find suitable markets.

i read theory of bastards based on the love expressed in this thread, thought it was pretty incredible. very unique, not even sure what i'd compare it to - maybe helen dewitt's books in it being a novel of ideas with a thorny lead character? not exactly the same but they are simpatico

started viriconium by m. john harrison, which showed up on a a lot of "if you like gormenghast" threads

https://bsky.app/profile/johnlangan.bsky.social/post/3mj3vk5ibmc2t

That's a RIP tribute to Thomas Tessier

Have you read it, in orbit?

Oh boy have I ever! The mass market had a Thomas Canty cover, obviously I read it. ;) I think the treacherous politics of the academy, the coterie of favored students of the most charismatic professor, inoculated me against Donna Tartt's The Secret History (which I did enjoy in its day! but not to the cultic levels that some of my friends did). Idk I liked Tam Lin but it was a little...heartless? not enough of the ineffable? for 14-yo me, and current me too tbh.

I want to say I read other Pamela Dean but a quick summary of The Dubious Hills makes me actually doubt that because I think I would remember. I would put The Secret Country on my tbr, in theory, if I could find it in ebook.

---
I ill-advisedly went into a used bookstore on vacay and found mass markets stacked to the ceiling so obviously I bought a stack including the whole Chronicles of Tornor trilogy by Elizabeth A. Lynn (discovered on two different days spread across BOTH used bookstores in town!!) that I'm sure I never read, and Fool's War by Sarah Zettel. Usually I think Sarah Zettel should be rediscovered and appreciated more, but reading Fool's again I find myself wishing her editor had been more motivated.

(cautiously reading a few fantasy-of-manners books that seem as indebted to Georgette Heyer as much as Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell - not as much crossover with cosy teashop fantasy as might be expected)

Please say more!!

xpost to myself I only knew Elizabeth A Lynn from The Sardonyx Net which god bless the Hackley Library but I read that book at least a decade earlier than I really should have. Maybe two decades.

Seems I've finished a short story, rarely enough: folk-psi, 364 words. Any recs. for a good flash fiction site (or other that publishes such shorties)? Prefer ones that pay, but will consider any good 'uns.

― dow, Monday, April 6, 2026 2:06 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

Late to the party here but try:
https://www.adventitious.net/submission-guidelines/
https://www.thecosmicbackground.com/guidelines
http://factorfourmag.com/submissionsinfo/
https://ffo.submittable.com/submit
https://mergansermagazine.com/submit/
https://www.metastellar.com/write-for-us/flash-fiction-story-submission/
https://www.briefecology.com/p/annoucement-rotting-leaf-magazine
https://smallwondersmag.com/submissions/
https://www.patreon.com/posts/submission-124086163
https://www.orions-belt.net/submissions
https://www.radonjournal.com/submit
https://kaleidotrope.net/guidelines/

Just came here to post thanks to RAG for his rec, and thanks also unto you, o Brian of Britain! I haven't tried anywhere yet, but I think I really have just now finished writing it (as I thought last night and other times).

I loved The Sardonyx Net, and carried on about it upthreadtasy---didn't know she did a trilogy. I usually avoid series, but will keep eye peeled for that one.
Just started the 1986 annual Best Fantasy Stories, with Tanith Lee, Jane Yolen, Nancy Springer, hopefully some other heavy hitters among the many names I don't recognize (still crossing over from science fiction etc.)
This volume's editor, Arthur Saha, mentions an '86 anthology co-edited by Andre North---what should I read by her?

'upthread*, I meant.

(cautiously reading a few fantasy-of-manners books that seem as indebted to Georgette Heyer as much as Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell - not as much crossover with cosy teashop fantasy as might be expected)

Please say more!!

xpost to myself I only knew Elizabeth A Lynn from The Sardonyx Net which god bless the Hackley Library but I read that book at least a decade earlier than I really should have. Maybe two decades.

― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, April 19, 2026 8:53 PM

Let's see - I enjoyed the older books (Ellen Kushner's Swordspoint (spikier than the more, uh, YA-ified contemporary books) and Jo Walton's Tooth and Claw (what if Anthony Trollope's Framley Parsonage but dragons?)) more than the more recent ones (Zen Cho's Sorceror to the Crown and some Stephanie Burgis novellas); not strictly fantasy but also read Joan Aiken's Deception which fit in with the above.

I'm so charmed to learn that the description "fantasy of manners" was used by Kusher to describe Swordspoint and it gives me another way to say that one of my favorite sides of the genre is a fantasy of governance!! Which Victoria Goddard's The Hands of the Emperor and its successors are such radiant examples of.

I def read both of the Zen Cho's Sorcerer to the Crown duo but they didn't land on me with very much of anything. I would say I remember them but wouldn't read again BUT a quick search also brought up "People who liked this book also liked..." suggestion of The Bridge of Birds which I had forgotten about but my reaction to seeing the cover just now was of a lot of fondness and enjoyment. There were so many weird and random books in the '80s, is all I can say! Someone mentioned Nancy Springer and I definitely read some of the Book of Isle series but one of the problems back then was ever finding all 5 books in a series!

Oh and Andrew North is Andre Norton!!! Who wrote SO MUCH, I don't know if you can go wrong, but I think I was introduced to her by The Beastmaster, which later got made into the movie which I never saw but from what I understood of it was a huge letdown. Iirc the Witch World series was kind of her bread & butter at one point? But so much insane cover art awaits you, just really revel in it.

Ooh, will check out the Goddard!
re: fantasy of governance, the Kushner is an interesting, uh, vibe comparison with The Goblin Emperor. Agree with the Zen Cho not leaving much of an impression - made me miss the manic energy of Bujold's A Civil Campaign when it comes to Heyer pastiches.

Huh, Barry Hughes - I think I was meaning to read that after coming across Sean Russell's Initiate Brother duology and Guy Gavriel Kay's Under Heaven; I'd studied the four Chinese classics so it's sort of interesting reading 70s/80s takes on Romance of the Four Kingdoms/Outlaws of the Marsh/Journey to the West etc. I wonder how that big project to translate a bunch of Jin Yong's wuxia novels is going?

one of my favorite sides of the genre is a fantasy of governance!!

would *absolutely* recommend the baru cormorant series by seth dickinson (although i am coming to suspect that he doesn't know how to finish it : /)

Also, re fantasy of manners and governance, maybe try Bujold's Memory, which is labelled as science fiction/planetary romance, but all on Miles V.'s home planet, with intense socializing, gossip, and some things that go boom, but not gadgets, in the Capitol City, though Miles visits the country too, necessarily (exemplary deep series yarn in that references to What Has Gone Before are managed just right, incl. not too often).
Thanks for tip on The Beastmaster, and will check whatever Norton my local library has.

Started The Wild Shore and so far it's just like the annoying parts of The Stand with people having meetings and shit and corny dialogue. Putting giants tarps down, oh wow. Is this worth continuing?

I read at least the first two(?) Baru Cormorant books and then probably lost track. Sad to hear it might be flapping around with no where to land.

Bujold is such a delight, there just aren't very many books I can think of that are as much sheer fun, and to keep it going for like 15 books is notable. I love that they're episodic in that way, it takes the pressure off and you don't end up with GRRM paralysis.

If you had to pick one of these two Asimov books, would it be I, Robot or Foundation?

Foundation. Some of the I Robot stories are fun logic puzzles but the first one and last two ain't all that and the whole is not more than the sum of its parts.

If you accept that Asimov ain't Tolstoy or Bester, those peak books can be a fun easy read--or at least they could in my childhood: for instance, I joined the Science Fiction Book Club when I was ten, and received The Foundation Trilogy, especially enjoying reveals re: Trantor, Hari Seldon, and the Mule. Uncle Isaac seemed warm, down-to-Earth, and a good cardsharp.

received it as part of the free-bait for joining, that is, but I'm pretty sure I would have liked it even if my parents had to pay for it (as they did the Club-required quantity, and of course more).

Speaking of fantasy, much later I re-joined, and paid for the SFBC Complete Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser---still haven't finished it, but was always good for bedtime reading.

Heh, had long forgotten that I was also once briefly a member of the SFBC, but couldn't tell you what books I got, only have a vague visual slightly frustrating wordless dream memory of their appearance.

Just saw that the SFBC was still a thing until the beginning of last year. Who knew?

AlgisBudrys.jpeg

i read a romantasy! ama

a) i had suspicions but didn't really know before embarking
b) it was fine, if terribly unoriginal (there *really* needs to be a moratorium on Schools for Magical People)
c) only real departure from unroman-tasy was that the premise of the romance was a bit more hackneyed and the sex scenes were *much* longer and more detailed

https://flashbak.com/things-to-come-science-fiction-book-club-468426/

https://www.facebook.com/cj.cherryh/posts/pfbid02ikBLm8JX7XeVgeq9oJ34C2aSraFWdGmRv7SiyqFpLw3xC918y1GUzyRxTPfdCfPzl
CJ Cherryh is retiring as a fiction writer

sad but, having read her last book (with her wife) 'alliance unbound', for the best

started viriconium by m. john harrison, which showed up on a a lot of "if you like gormenghast" threads

― na (NA), Monday, April 6, 2026 9:22 AM (three weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

anyone else read this? i really enjoyed it. the volume i checked out was a collection of three short novels and then some short stories, all centered around the distant future earth city viriconium. a couple of the novels are epic adventures but then they get smaller in scale, some of the stories are more like scenes or character sketches. they aren't exactly like gormenghast, they aren't as gothic and have more of a sci-fi bent, but i can see the comparison - they're centered around a fantasy city, are ornately written, and often go pretty dark and hallucinatory.

I have the collection, read and really enjoyed the first two books, The Pastel City and A Storm of Wings, but have not gotten around to reading the rest of it. Have also read and liked several of his other books. Martin Skidmore was a huge fan.

Reposting this: https://www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/2012/06/11/covering-viriconium/

thanks, that was interesting

That Pastel City cover by Bruce Pennington is absolutely gorgeous!

https://www.scottedelman.com/wordpress/2026/04/24/farah-mendlesohn-2/
fun interview

iirc i liked the pastel city a lot and found a storm of wings extremely weird in a gene wolfe-ian way

haven't yet read gormenghast, so i can't compare

(i do find the 'here's a novel, then some short stories, plus a novella, maybe a graphic novel, all set in different eras' approach from ppl like him and moorcock annoying, but that is my own vaguely ocd problem)

i'm not a huge short story guy, i wouldn't have read them if they weren't already in the same volume with the novels. some of them were good but i do think the three novels were the highlight.

i need to reread gormenghast at some point, i loved the first two books when i first read them a few years ago but couldn't deal with the third one.