Wokring in a bookshop.

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Advise me.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Friday, 6 February 2004 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

That might be "working".

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Friday, 6 February 2004 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

If you like to buy and own books, and need to use your money toward rent and food, don't work in a bookshop. The temptation of your employee discount will ensure that you'll end-up with many, many books, stored in cardboard boxes as you live under a bridge, eating garbage from dumpsters.

Actually, I hate it when bookstores hire people who don't read - nothing's more annoying than asking about a book and having the person behind the desk mispronounce the title and the author's name and then suggest seeing the movie, instead. Grrrr.

I want to work in bookstore in an advisory capacity - looking for a book for a course? Sure I can help - what interests you? What was the last thing you read? Did you like it? Have you ever read anything by ____? Or about ____? Here's four or five things that might interest you.

Maybe I need to go back to my dream of being a librarian.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Friday, 6 February 2004 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"advisory capacity" = you work in a boutique bookshop in a really wealthy neighborhood. like maybe you work in ye olde time bookshop in martha's vineyard or something. then you have to get to really know your regulars because they drop like $1000- at your store every christmas because you know their grandkids by name and which books they read last christmas so you know what sequels to get.

this was my last job. it's cool but you're going to feel extremely poor and you will eventually get tired of having to be 10x more personable than barnes & nobles clerks. there is also a plus/minus in that you may be expected to learn how to sell antiques or garden supplies or something too at a boutique shop (plus in my case because antiques and vintage pottery and bakelite are cool! minus in ms laura's because crystals are not!)

or you could work at a university press bookstore?

vahid (vahid), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

also don't be too proud to work at a chain - you will learn alot quickly and you will be 10x more hireable at an independent than someone with no experience because indies can't really afford to train people unless they need someone pronto.

vahid (vahid), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm - I don't think that I'd mind selling the antiques (having a father who's a former antiques dealer, I grew-up with the excitement of coming home from school and finding that he'd sold off the dining table or my bed or the door to my bedroom, 'cause they were all antiques) - and I don't mind the gardening supplies, either - but I'm kind of bad at advising on books because I'll look down on someone who reads "crud," I'm afraid.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Friday, 6 February 2004 06:43 (twenty-one years ago)

In some major American cities, an entry-level bookstore job will not pay your rent, which is a drawback. And a love of books will not help you if you can't abide being a retail worker--some customers will treat you like shit no matter what you do.

If you know anything about books at all, you will be a star in a chain bookstore knowledge-wise. But working in a chain bookstore is more obviously about speed and selling efficiency than about imparting a love of literature. Large chain bookstores often have night crews doing their shelving, which means that you will not have a section in which you are expert. Merchandising (what gets displayed, etc) is increasingly driven by publishers, which means you may not necessarily get to push the books you think are worthy. Inventory control is highly centralized and the window between receiving a book and returning the excess is very small (though not as small as for music). A busy chain store rarely offers an opportunity for either you or the store to express any individuality. You may spend a lot of time at a cash register. None of this is necessarily bad. It's pretty cool to be working in a big, busy chain store in December and you can find everything they all want.

An independent will have more financial constraints, but will likely allow you to be more creative. The independents need to offer services unavailable at chains, so they need to find a genre niche, or be more knowledgeable, or offer better service. In my experience, the smaller the bookstore, the nicer the customers (there are always a few, though...). You have a better chance to affect the inventory of an independent--and it's pretty damn cool to order a stack of books you like, put them where you want them, and see them sell.

I don't mean to sound so hard on chains--they're not bad, but as publicly-owned companies they tend to look to the bottom line first. If you have any wanderlust, they're an ideal way to move around and have a job when you get there. And they tend to be highly incestuous, which has its place too.

mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 6 February 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The chain I worked in (very briefly), the bottom line was *the* god. No others need apply, thank you. Even there, though, I had regulars who knew the hours I worked, and would come in during those times. Those persons made up for all the asinine individuals who came in with nothing more than a completely vague description of the book cover and an attitude.

yesabibliophile (yesabibliophile), Saturday, 7 February 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

There was a chain bookstore near where I used to live (back in the good ol' days when I was over-paid and spending all of my money on books) - when I'd go in, there were two different clerks who'd see me coming and meet me close to the doors with a basket - they'd gotten tired of seeing me lugging around precariously stacked piles of books. It was quite funny. They'd also drag customers over to me when they (er, the customers, that is) were looking for a book and the clerks couldn't help them. I liked that set-up.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Saturday, 7 February 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

On the down side, we've calculated that if you include their tips, the cafe girls in our independent make what we ten-year+ veterans do and are not expected to know all of Western literature, the latest buzz and have the ability to identify a book by an inaccurate memory of its subtitle.

On the plus side (and our owner is not typical) we can order in whatever books we want, display them as we want, and schedule readings for such authors as we can persuade to pause on there way somewhere important. Being asked for advice comes with the territory and is a compliment only from regulars, but the ego-stroke compensates a little for the salary (we're also allowed to check the daily books, so we know vast quantities of wealth aren't being diverted from our linty pockets.) You do, however, have to be able to keep a straight face when people enthuse about what you loathe -- I seem to be the one person on the North American continent who can't stand The Secret Life of Bees. The boss, on the other hand, has been known to warn regulars off of such stinkers as Bridges of Madison County. In the end, you can't live on the income but if it's supplementary it's a wonderful job. A lot of ifs.

rams, Saturday, 14 February 2004 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I worked in a bookshop this holiday season. It was a Borders Book Outlet. When we answered the telephone we were required to say "Thank you for calling Borders Book Outlet Wrentham Store Number 334. We always always have great books at great prices and currently we're running [PROMOTION X], this is Y speaking."

All anybody bought was
1) The DaVinci Code - Dan Brown
2) 5 People You Meet in Heaven - Mitch Albom
3) Thunder and Lighting - Phil Esposito

and they wanted to know my candid opinions about their chocices. When I replied that I hadn't read any of their books they got all bristly and told me that I had better keep on stock or I wouldn't earn my pay.

So if you work in a bookstore, make sure it's not a shitty one.

Atila the Honeybun (Atila the Honeybun), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Mitch Albom has got to go. He doesn't tell you that his book is one of the 5 books they make you read in hell.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha. That sounds like a good thread topic: "What 5 books would they make you read in hell?"

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i work in a bookshop
the amount of people reading mitch albom is amazing

a few months ago,when i started work,there was one copy of tuesdays with morrie on the shelves,then the irish radio personality equivalent of oprah,who has an amazing amount of power over what people in ireland read (although i didn't know this before working in the shop) did a show about him and since then there's been well over a thousand of his books sold...

its amazing when you work in a bookshop how many people will come in and look for "something for a forty year old woman" with no other information...
its not a bad job though...
comments above about staff discounts and being surrounded by books all day are entirely true-i've spend loads on books while at work...

robin (robin), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

we can order in whatever books we want, display them as we want

this may be a bit romanticized here. i mean, let's face it, while you technically CAN order whatever books you want you also want to stay in business.

so in practice, this meant that while we bookstore didn't stock ann coulter or michael savage or any of the other raving conservative fuckwads we sure as hell didn't have a choice about whether or not we stocked the da vinci code, or tuesdays with morrie, or even politically "neutral" stuff like bill o'reilly. and if people asked to order ann coulter's book there's no way anyone was going to think twice or give them attitude - no way around it, you just HAVE to stock this stuff, and sell it, or your customers are going to go to barnes + noble and you're going to go out of business.

unless, of course, your bookstore is financially independent as well as independently operated - well, then you're just fucking lucky. there's a bookstore in la jolla operated by a guy who i think has a trust fund. he just sits in it all day, drinking beer and watching football with his feet up. sometime in the afternoon he turns on books in print and orders 40 or 50 different university press titles, books of obscure poetry, beautiful monographs, etc. that he never worries about selling. lucky bastard!

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, that would be the most glorious thing on earth, to have a vanity bookstore! Mitch Albom? Fuck you, get out of here!! i guess that's kinda like a High Fidelity fantasy, but still....

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

of course the problem is that everyone starts to think that either a) bookselling really isn't a cutthroat, barely-squeak-by kind of business or that b) all independents are vanity stores.

the woman i worked for was single and her entire livelihood was her bookstore. you wouldn't believe how customers and other professionals (UPS, sales reps, etc) would try to gouge her for discounts and small concessions. one UPS guy said once that he didn't understand why she was so upset with him bringing the order in late - "after all, your husband can stand to lose a little more money, right?"

i think two or three years should be enough to put anyone off their dreams of operating a bookstore. i'd say the biggest problem is figuring out a profitable sideline (cafe is the easy choice, but then you're competing with starbucks, too!)

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

we're also allowed to check the daily books, so we know vast quantities of wealth aren't being diverted

also i'd like to point out that i had the same the same privelege (responsibility) where i worked and i have to say it went pretty damn far in lending a great deal of dignity (and personal investment) to an essentially unskilled (ha!) minimum-wage job.

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

actually, i had a little store in philadelphia for a while and that was enough bookselling for me. we weren't open long, a little over a year in a bad basement location, we sold used records and clothes and gen-x knick knacks as well. most of our sales were books and records. what was even creepy was watching the guy who owned the used bookstore across the street from us standing outside his store staring with daggers in his eyes at our store! he hated us and wouldn't even come over to say hello when we opened. as it turned out, he closed his shop before we closed ours. i don't know if he blamed us. he went on to manage an HMV. which also closed a couple years later. but he was a poet so maybe all this was good for his poetry. we closed only because i needed to find a full-time job to pay my apartment rent, not because we were losing money. it was a neat experience, but people can be really weird about books. and records! oy, i won't even go there.

one cool thing: a couple years later i was running this little corner gourmet food/coffee place on rittenhouse square and i was thinking of quitting. in order to keep me around, the owner put in two huge bookshelves and let me fill them with used stuff to sell. and i got to keep all the profits. wasn't much, maybe an extra 20 bucks a week or a little more, but it was nice at night when i worked to see people come in, grab a cup of coffee and pick up a book to read. i ended up having regulars who would come all the time to talk books. my own salon of sorts! That was nice for a couple years.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

You do, however, have to be able to keep a straight face when people enthuse about what you loathe -- I seem to be the one person on the North American continent who can't stand The Secret Life of Bees

Naw, I thought it was horrid, too. IN
n fact, everyone who told me that I should read it, well, I sent them Susan Straight's I Been in Sorrow's Kitchen and Licked Out All the Pots - seemed to go over fairly well.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Thursday, 19 February 2004 07:19 (twenty-one years ago)

learn from this guy:

http://kempa.com/articles/bn/

really hilarious bookstore stories.

Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I loved working in an indie bookstore for five years or so. We got by on the fact that the nearest chain store was at least 15 miles away, and on good customer service I would say. Vahid is OTM about the dignity aspect...it might not have been a great paying job, but it definitely some literary knowledge, as well as knowing which one 'that one with the blue cover is, you know.' I got to be in charge of the sci-fi section too, which was nice.

after all, your husband can stand to lose a little more money, right?"

WOW.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

also i'd like to point out that i had the same the same privelege (responsibility) where i worked and i have to say it went pretty damn far in lending a great deal of dignity (and personal investment) to an essentially unskilled (ha!) minimum-wage job.

Or to a no-wage job. Since I took over the running of this bookstore (which is a charity one, so all our books are donated and the staff are volunteers, except me), I've always told people what our target is for each month, and how much we've made each week. It doesn't just make people feel involved, it actually involves them.

Working in a charity bookshop takes at least one of the hard parts out of the job: I don't have to worry about what to order, because I get the books donated free of charge. Of course I do sometimes find myself wondering what to do with twenty Dick Francis hardbacks. Sigh.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Friday, 20 February 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"twenty Dick Francis hardbacks"?? cross-promote with Seabiscuit!!

vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 February 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Its hard to retain your dignity when so many ill-tempered and rude people come into your store. Seriously, though, I love working in a bookstore. The pay blows, but I have risen through the ranks here. And working for an independent store is also nice in that we promote books that we like, not what the publishers want. Sure, we sell 20 or more copies of Da vinci Code each week because that's what a lot of people keep asking for, but this month we are promoting Any Human Heart by William Boyd (spectacular book by the way) and World on Fire by Amy Chua as well as many others. I suppose it helps that we are in an academic area. We don't even sell a lot of the mass market stuff. So when anyone comes in wanting the new James Patterson, we might have 1 copy, but it will not be prominently displayed.

bookdwarf (bookdwarf), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been working for two weeks now, and am loving it, crappy wage n' all. Last week I persuaded someone to buy "Tintin in Tibet" for their kids, and then someone bought one of my favourites, "The Things They Carried", and we chatted about it for a while. Nice. Plus, we keep dog biscuits under the counter and have a nice parade of cute puppies every day. Twee but good.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Friday, 20 February 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

you got a job at an indie?? CONGRATS. tell us more about it!

vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I found working at a bookstore (on Charing Cross Road, no less) to be an utterly demoralising experience and a monkey could have done my job... something they reminded me of repeatedly. My background and knowledge of books was never called upon, any attempts to organise my section was met with sneers from the management, and the customers were blindingly rude. Someone made the comment that you can't escape the fact that it's still retail and that is so, so true. You simply need to point out where all the best-selling books are (which is always the front of the shop or the big displays). Working in a record store was way more fun; they expected me to be utterly rude as I pointed out where the singles section was.

Catty (Catty), Sunday, 22 February 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

that it's still retail

Funnily enough, I've always liked working in retail. The four customers a day who stop to talk to you and who you get to know kind of make it for me. Of course I'm very lucky at the moment. Not only are our customers a lovely bunch of people who just want to be helpful and get some nice books into the bargain, but I don't even have to stand up all day. But even in the bad old days of working in sweet shops for 1.20 an hour, and working in a dry cleaners, there was always something about shop work that I liked.

I must be some sort of freak.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i quite like working in retail as well,at least compared to other jobs that i've had...
the standing all day does get to me though

robin (robin), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

But the pay! I've worked in Retail in previous jobs and the customer interaction can be great, but you leave with empty pockets.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i worked in a chain store for about eight months, and i never want to do it again. there were some wonderful aspects: friendly customers, a hefty discount, the freedom to special-order and/or promote esoteric titles within reason, and the delight i took from the occasional person who took the time to find me and thank me for a recommendation or a special request that i had handled for him/her. but for me, like catty, it came down to the fact that chainstore retail is chainstore retail no matter how you look at it, and something that i just can't stand. but perhaps more than anything, the amount of shocking behavior i had to endure every day really really got to me. i'm basically a very polite person, and the near-constant level of unpleasantness both disturbed me and made me act out in ways that i didn't like. still, that 40% discount...

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The discount is evil! Evil! Especially when you're stocking and you see titles that really perk your interest and then you buy them on your lunch hour. So much of my wages went right back into that store.

And like Lauren, the really unpleasant customers completely ruined whatever enjoyment I could have taken from that job. The biggest problem with working retail isn't so much the kind of work, the standing all day, or the low pay, all of which are rough, it's the incredibly rude attitude that total fuckers give you for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL and you can't tell them to fuck off without losing your job. One guy absolutely ripped into me when I was working the info desk one night, made an absolute scene, got on his high horse because I worked in a bookstore and therefore was utterly stupid and worthless, and all because he was looking for a magazine we didn't carry. Turns out we did carry it -- he just didn't have the name right. So no matter how many times I tried telling him the magazine name he gave me isn't listed in our inventory so we don't normally carry it, he claimed I was calling him a liar and saying the magazine didn't exist. Then when I finally got a manager to get off their ass and handle him, he proceeded to make a formal complaint about me.
THAT is the kind of shit that pisses me off about retail. So few other professions rate your job performance on the uninformed, spiteful behaviour of others.

Catty (Catty), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Weirdly, when I'm in a bookshop, people often come up and ask me questions. I must have that 'work in a bookshop' look.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck,
Working in a bookstore is a like a relationship-- some days are great and some ain't. You will meet some very interesting people
on both sides of the counter and will come away, at the same time, thinking that the world has gone totally to Hell and that it would not be such a bad idea if the Black Death were to make a return visit
and wipe out every SOB that came in your store! And don't get me
started on what it is like to work in a Bookstore during the
Christmas Shopping season!!!

Steve Walker (Quietman), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 03:12 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...
Wokring? That sounds like some exotic oriental twist of LOTL.

pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't a wokring the little metal ring that you put under the wok to prop it up on your stove?

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i have never worked in a bookstore; this board is a little strange for me- why are people unpleasant/rude to people working in bookstores? Arent folks who read supposed to be just that bit more civilized? Somebody, explain, please.

cheeesoo (cheeesoo), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

In her book Nickel and Dimed, Barbara Ehrenreich advances the theory that people behave badly in shops essentially because they can. They may have spent the day being nice to a whole bunch of people they didn't want to be nice to, so they're going to take it out on you, because you're lower down the food chain than them.

And some people are just dicks.

For all that working in a charity shop attracts more than its fair share of mentals, it's worth it for the nice people who tell you you're doing a great job and that they love your shop. Everyone gets a warm fuzzy feeling.

Also a lot of it is down to the management. I would never let a customer raise their voice to a member of my staff, paid or unpaid. I would step in. People in retail don't get paid enough to put up with that kind of thing, and everyone deserves courtesy, including the people who work in the shop. Besides which, if a good member of staff is getting barracked by some asshole, then they're more likely to quit, which is more likely to make my job harder.

So you should all come and work for me, when I open my fantasy bookshop. In Christchurch, my fantasy home.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

accentmonkey, where were you when I did my stint years ago? where do I apply when the fantasy shop opens, I organize like no one's business!

yesabibliophile (yesabibliophile), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I managed a struggling (now defunct) indie for the five years previous to my current stint at a library. Some days it was lovely- good conversation, learning from customers as you teach them, events went beautifully, books moved in and out smoothly. We had a coffee shop and oh, some days were heaven!

The other 360 days were not.

Rabin the Cat (Rabin the Cat), Thursday, 11 March 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, bibliophile, I think we should open the fantasy bookshop in Utah, given that that's where most of our customers are going to be, if other threads are anything to go by.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 11 March 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

accentmonkey, maybe a combination of the threads, where it's a fantasy bookshop and private club for married groups (we passed "married couple" a dozen people ago)!

yesabibliophile (yesabibliophile), Monday, 15 March 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

It seems we've been invited to move to Vermont to live in sin. Coffee shop on the ground floor, books in the basement, bar upstairs and reading chez longues in the vine covered terrace? Fantasy section in the marble tower, perhaps?

PuzzleMonkey (PuzzleMonkey), Monday, 15 March 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Any good grad programs in Vermont?

Phil Christman, Monday, 15 March 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh good, now I don't have to worry about finding a pair of shit kickers to wear - just my usual wardrobe will do ;) At least we get around those pesky polygamy laws and statutes.

yesabibliophile (yesabibliophile), Monday, 15 March 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)


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