uncles in britain.

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what about uncles? they must have some place in the collective imagination. I mean, as an image or as an idea, uncles always seem quite suspect. ('suspect uncles'.) listen to this, for instance:

'It's a while since I've been in touch so, writing now, I feel like a shady relative -- some funny uncle -- slipping an over-generous note into your card: hush money excusing another year of neglect.'

or here is again, (and look what he's doing this time! it sounds so sinister) (no matter that he's 'great', that's ironic):

'I was tricked into sleep by a man with a smile,
who slipped me the dose
like a great-uncle slipping his favourite nephew
a ten-pound note, like
so, back-handed, then tipped me a wink.'

- 'for the record', simon armitage.

the uncle manifests a distanced closeness? lack of emotion or personal knowledge by their executioners of scorn (poet nieces and nephews) brought out in relief by the cosanguinity's ask. that it's a cosanguinity that almost collapses into affinity. (these are legal categories, actually [incest & related offences (scotland) act 1986], but I might be using them as socio-emotional categories... just now.) who knows what the uncle hides. he can be an idea. if the park can be an idea, he can be an idea. what though? maybe.

I wonder if there are any uncles in larkin. or o'brien.

the uncle's not always afforded with such negativity. (they are in o'brien. to some extent.) well, there's this sentimental domesticity from 'the amateur god':

'My father, my uncle, in suits of pale ash,
Are still sinking the black in the shade.'

and this fond reminiscence, I guess, from 'late':

'Old men grow bored with young men's books,
But still they followed and were sold
At the stall that an uncle had kept.'

or, look here now, at contained implicit joy (although closer inspection reveals that he's only really introduced to help define strongly the figure who'll rise to prominence later - the, capital-d, 'Dad'):

'My uncle was beaming: 'Aye, yer elliptical stylus -
fairly brings out a' the wee details.'

more uncles, please.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 2 May 2004 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

No quotes at my fingertips, but Alcott had uncle as father figure to Rose in "Eight Cousins" and "Rose in Bloom". Pip had an Uncle Pumblechook in "Great Expectations who treated him badly when he was poor, but was much nicer when his prospects were better. And Scrooge was Uncle to his longsuffering employees. Uncles figure variously in "The Mill on the Floss", "Hamlet", "Tom Jones", and "Tristam Shandy". Much of the memoir writing of the Mitford girls had uncle aspects.

― Rabin the Cat (Rabin the Cat), Sunday, 2 May 2004 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

uncles uncles uncles.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 2 May 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

There's an uncle in Jane Eyre. He is distant and not very helpful, over hsawdowed by the aunt and cousins.
And one in Manchester Park i can't remember anything about. He may have had interests in the West Indies. Uncles seem to be generally much less important than Aunts.

― isadora (isadora), Monday, 3 May 2004 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

A windy day
The cars in slow formation
Not far away
A final destination
One mother's son
His father's distant gaze, regretting
Where they went wrong
He always found it too upsetting

Me and my friend
We lived our lives completely
From start to end
You and your friend, so sweetly
With strength and pride
In spite of everything, and swimming
Against the tide
To obstinately hope of winning

And at the end
Your funny uncle staring
At all your friends
With military bearing
And stopped to stand
To smile and speak of you directly
Goodbye, shake hands
Like you did everything correctly

To wipe away the tears
No more pain, no fear
No sorrow or dying
No waiting or crying
These former things have passed away
Another life begins today

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 3 May 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

outstanding.

O, I don't have a point, by the way.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 3 May 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

poor uncles. they never get a break.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 3 May 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Yet avuncular is mostly positive isn't it?

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 3 May 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

is there an auntly equivalent of avuncular?

― isadora (isadora), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 04:23 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.bartleby.com/68/54/654.html

Apparently not.
"Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

avuncular (adj.)

means “typical of or suitable to an uncle”; it also has figurative senses meaning “kind, indulgent, undemanding, sexless”: His treatment of her was more avuncular than amorous. It’s perhaps a cliché in its most frequent company, avuncular advice. A curiosity: English has no similar adjective to deal with matters or qualities typical of an aunt: auntish and auntlike are about as close as we can come.

The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. Copyright © 1993 Columbia University Press."

― Rabin the Cat (Rabin the Cat), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

what about their role in children's literature - a jumping off point for adventures away from the more concentrated attention of parents ie the Famous Fives Uncle Quentin, and wasn't Narnia first accessed from a wardrobe in some uncle's echoey house?

― sandy mc (sandy mc), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Things I learnt last week, unwillingly: avuncular used to refer only to uncles on the paternal side, before everyone realised that this was silly.

'Once More With Feeling' (The porn thing, not the Buffy musical) has a long bit about the infinite sexxxiness of uncles which may or may not be mentalism.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
Gregory Henry writes " avuncular used to refer only to uncles on the paternal side"

Language is so odd. The word originates from a latin word meaning MATERNAL uncle.

avuncular

SYLLABICATION: a·vun·cu·lar
PRONUNCIATION: -vngky-lr
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or having to do with an uncle. 2. Regarded as characteristic of an uncle, especially in benevolence or tolerance.
ETYMOLOGY: From Latin avunculus, maternal uncle. See awo- in Appendix

― Rabin the Cat (Rabin the Cat), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Doh! Can this be a wacky etymology thread where I rave about cadeau and wretch and money and that?

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking of which, how did the phrase "Bob's your uncle" originate? I know it means "there it is" or "it's all wrapped up," but why?

― Carol Robinson (carrobin), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a catch phrase dating back to 1887, when British Prime Minister Robert Cecil (a.k.a. Lord Salisbury) decided to appoint a certain Arthur Balfour to the prestigious and sensitive post of Chief Secretary for Ireland. Not lost on the British public was the fact that Lord Salisbury just happened to be better known to Arthur Balfour as "Uncle Bob." In the resulting furor over what was seen as an act of blatant nepotism, "Bob's your uncle" became a popular sarcastic comment applied to any situation where the outcome was preordained by favoritism. As the scandal faded in public memory, the phrase lost its edge and became just a synonym for "no problem."
http://www.word-detective.com/back-f.html

and/or

This British phrase means "all will be well" or "simple as that":
"You go and ask for the job -- and he remembers your name -- and
Bob's your uncle." It dates from circa 1890.
P. Brendon, in Eminent Edwardians, 1979, suggests an origin:
"When, in 1887, Balfour was unexpectedly promoted to the vital front
line post of Chief Secretary for Ireland by his uncle Robert, Lord
Salisbury (a stroke of nepotism that inspired the catch-phrase
'Bob's your uncle'), ..."
Or it may have been prompted by the cant phrase "All is bob" =
"all is safe."
(Info from Eric Partridge's Dictionary of Catch Phrases, 2nd
edition, revised by Paul Beale, Routledge, 1985, ISBN
0-415-05916-X.)
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxbobsyo.html

― Rabin the Cat (Rabin the Cat), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

So, where does '...and Fanny's your aunt' come from?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know and a quick google shows Eric Partridge isn't sure either. I do know a fanny in Britain and a fanny in the US are not _quite_ the same thing. I say "My aunt Fanny" as an expression of sarcastic disbelief, rather than "my ass", but I'm a little precious that way.

― Rabin the Cat (Rabin the Cat), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Wodehouse gives good uncle, it would seem from the relevant thread. But perhaps not for cozen...

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

In The Crow Road, by Iain Banks, we meet the decidedly eccentric Uncle Hamish who leads his own fundamentalist Christian sect, and the Cool-as-Hell Uncle Rory, the search for whom dominates the story. And finally the aristocratic, murderous Uncle Fergus - pretty much a complete set in one book!

― Cornelius Murphy, Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks, Rabin, for your excellent explanation of "Bob's your uncle." No wonder I never could figure out the logic!

And as far as English uncles are concerned, don't forget Harry Potter's awful aunt and uncle--and piggish cousin Dudley.

― Carol Robinson (carrobin), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)

uncles are fantastic.

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Uncles who turn out to be magicians feature prominently in children's books, too. As well as Narnia mentioned above, there is John Bellairs, Phillip Pullman, Tolkien.
More evil non-magic uncles: Uncle Ralph in Nicholas Nickelby, the uncle in "Kidnapped."

― Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Richard III!?

― Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Pandarus!

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:13 (twenty-one years ago)

And Claudius, of course.

― Carol Robinson (carrobin), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure I saw 'uncle' used recently in some London novel to refer to a money lender (or perhaps a pawnbroker?). But in what book? Perhaps one of the brief Harvill London series, maybe "The Lowlife" by Alexander Baron (or Caught" by Henry Green?). I can't remember.

Anyway I wouldn't have understood if it hadn't been for Pauline Fowler on Eastenders.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Also in Tipping the Velvet 'uncle' seems to = butch partner in lesbian couple?

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

For some unaccountable reason, English people continually tell me that Bob's my uncle. The silly twits. He's my great-uncle.

― Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

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