The symbolism of fairy tales

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I'm writing a fairy tale right now and I'm sort of stuck trying to put my symbolism in context. I can figure out pretty easily what the symbols in the story mean in the context of my own brain. But does anybody know any links to academic sites analyzing the Brothers Grimm or anything? I'd like to know what some of the traditional symbols of the genre are supposed to mean, if anything. Specifically, I'm wondering about compass directions. I know Wizard of Oz is fairly recent, but why, for instance, was the Good Witch from the east and the nasty bag from the west?

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Sunday, 30 May 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't run across anything immediately on-line, but did find a few sites that have lists of books that might be work taking a look at:
folkandfairy.org
Green Man Review's Fairy Tales on the Couch
Once Upon a Couch
They've got plenty of links directly to Amazon, where you can probably find at least a few used copies cheap.

― Su (BoredInsomniac), Sunday, 30 May 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and as for the witches, it sounds cheap and easy, but I figure the East(Good)/West(Evil) thing probably doesn't go any further than that the two directions are generally associated East to Right and West to Left(ie: sinister). The left has a long history of negative association, even outside Western Culture.

― Su (BoredInsomniac), Sunday, 30 May 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, yeah, duh, Ann, I forgot all about the sinister thing.

I wonder why left has been considered evil? Because most people are right-handed and nobody could figure out why it was so hard to deal with the left side of one's body? I guess it would be kind of scary, come to think of it, had nobody ever explained it to me...

Hm, OK, that mystery has at least a cheap and easy answer.

What are all the forests and fairies about? And the 100 Years' Sleep? And Bluebeard's castle? The perils of adolescence? The mystery of the crap in your head that you can't quite get at all the time? Pubic hair?

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Sunday, 30 May 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

(Sigh... every time I post a question here I wind up giving half my paycheck to Jeff Bezos and his minions at Amazon... anybody ever read Mike Daisey's 21 Dog Years? Apparently the "visionary" Bezos is kind of a total smiling bastard to work for... yeah, I know, BIIIIIG surprise...)

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Sunday, 30 May 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

More Amazon, I'm afraid. Or check out the local library (inter-library loans are the biz!).

The Uses of Enchantment: Meaning and Importance of Fairy Tales by Bruno Bettelheim. Penguin Books, 1991 (ISBN: 0140137270).

Archetypal Patterns in Fairy Tales by Marie-Louise Von Franz. Inner City Books, 1997 (ISBN: 0919123775).

Metamorphosis: The Dynamics of Symbolism in European Fairy Tales (International Folkloristics, V. 1) by Francisco Gentil Vaz Da Silva. Peter Lang Pub Inc., 2002 (ISBN: 0820458082).

Cinderella's Gold Slipper: Spiritual Symbolism in the Grimms' Tales by S. D. Fohr. Sophia Perennis/TRSP Publications, POD (ISBN: 0900588632).

HTH.

― SRH (Skrik), Sunday, 30 May 2004 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Sunrise v. sunset? Or light v darkness? Civilization v frontier?

― Robert Burns, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I once overheard a conversation in Foyles between two female staff regarding Little Red Riding Hood.

Girl #1, "well it's sexual isn't it? You know her little red riding hood."

Confused mate, "her hood?"

Girl#1, "you know, her cliterous."

Confused mate, "oh"

Girl#1 "Who's next please?"

Exit Mikey G, stage left, looking pensive.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Try anything by Jack Zipes - he's written a great deal on the Brothers Grimm.

You could also try "From the beast to the blonde" by Marina Warner, which is an excellent book and deals specifically with symbolism and its relationship with culture. She also wrote, "No go the Bogeyman" in a similar vein.

And if you really want the heavy stuff, try Vladimir Propp's "Morphology of the Folk Tale", for another point of view.

Did my dissertation on Grimm and these are the most useful sources I can remember.

― Sarah Summertime, Wednesday, 2 June 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Boys and Girls Forever by Alison Lurie. It might only be out in Australia, but it analyses a whole bunch of kids books (yes, even Harry Potter!) and fairy tales. It looks pretty good.

― Rowie, Friday, 4 June 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

The Child That Books Built by Francis Spufford is structured around these sorts of symbols - the forest, the hole, the sea - I can't remember the rest. Also, Jung.

― Sam (chirombo), Friday, 4 June 2004 08:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm... I dug up some interesting Marie-Louise von Franz... it was just what the doctor ordered ("Shadow and Evil in Fairy Tales" -- there are trolls and vampires in my story, y'see) using you guys' leads -- thanks ILB! I had no idea there was so much serious fairy-tale crit or there. I've always tended to write a fairy once in a while...

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 7 June 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, SAm, should I read the von Franz first or paddle around in Jung? I read him a long, long time ago and am wondering whether a refreshed would be worth it... I was too young to really get it, I suspect, though it's resonated in me.

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 7 June 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

(Hm, I'm reading von Franz's intro, where she explains Jung's shadow for the lay reader, and I'm going uh huh, uh huh... so why did Freud win out??)

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 7 June 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

You really, really should read Joseph Campbell. I think he knew all there is to know about litterature and myths and the many links between them. Fairy tales are somewhere in between I should think???

"The sun rises in the east. It is the place of birth, of emergence, new life. When the Buddha achieved illumination he was facing east. In the height of the sky, the blue sky of noon, is the midpoint, the thirty-fifth year of life. In the west the sun sinks, and in the north the sun is underground. The north is always an area of awe and mystery and danger" - Transformations of Myth trough Time, Campbell.

The importent thing is the sun as a symbol of life. Sunrise is a symbol of something being born, therefor new things and good things come from the east where the sun rises.

― Jens Drejer, Sunday, 13 June 2004 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmmm, thank you, I think East is the direction I want the vampire to come from then??? Hmmmm... and reading von Franz has already given me an idea for ANOTHER story... god, do I have a lot to get done!

Too bad it's so beautiful outside. You have to decide. And there are so many fairy tales already there to read anyway...

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Odd... somebody at work kindly dropped Bruno Bettelheim's "The Uses of Enchantment" on my desk a few days after this thread began; I'm reading it with glee and still wondering who my fairy godmother was. Did an ILB'er sweetly sneek into my cubicle?

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 03:35 (twenty-one years ago)

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