Tale of Genji

I have the unabridged and love it, but I take it in small sections...

It is so weird. Take it in small sections, but don't let too much time elapse between readings or you will forgot who the Estimable and the Honorable and the Serene are (if you ever figure them out in the first place).

I came to regard it as a Sci-fi book and to forget that it took place on Earth - it is that far from what we think of our reality - which is mindblowing.

holy fuck is this brillant...not hard to read, but after enough time it resembles opiates.

try the gossipy and cruel pillow book as well

the supplementary materials with the tyler translation (the newest one) are really wonderful: e.g. a list of desciptions of the period clothing. with maybe some pictures thrown in?

i was surprised and enlightened by a note to the effect that people in the period depicted (perhaps i should say 'people' to mean the fabulously well off) were hardly ever far outside the physical presence of other people, given the social arrangements and the way they were supported by things like building and room structures.

Reviving, because I started reading the Tyler translation last night. The illustrations are wonderful. The understatement of the court intrigue surrounding the death of the Haven is haunting. The elaboration of all the social conventions in the footnotes has been welcome and enlightening. It is very much like reading a sci fi or fantasy book, along the lines of le Guin - not an alternative universe, but certainly an alien society.

would i like this?

i just put always coming home and left hand of darkness in the pile to take up to college with me, if that helps

what does it matter if you would like it? read it anyway!

You might, Tom, especially if you like puzzling over what is going on with these alien societies and a sort of Bildungsroman-seeming plot (I'm only into the second chapter).

josh i get little enough reading of the stuff i actually like done

is it long? it's long, isn't it. how long?

Oh, it's very long. Over 1200 pages. But very readable and engaging.

i've had a nice old copy for years, and i've always been a little daunted by it. but i scare easy. maybe someday...

What translation, Scott? Apparently there the flowery but lacking one, the utilitarian literal one, and this newish one. I'm thinking of comparing the first chapter.

i think it's from the 30's or 40's. i have no idea how good a translation it is. glancing thru it years ago, i remember it looked pretty flowery. sadly, it's in a box somewhere. i don't have it at hand.

I assume you read the interesting comparison on Amazon. I think I disagreed with the reviewer and preferred the utilitarian literal one. I have to ask my friend, who read one of the translations and really regretted choosing that one, but I don't remember which one.

Amazon user reviews are always so hit and miss and require more than a few grains of salt. The Wikipedia article (like it's that much more reliable!) is a bit more comprehensive (and even spells all the translators' names correctly). I found the full text of the Seidensticker translation on a UNESCO site. The Waley translation doesn't appear to be available on the web, not even the first chapter.

Scott, if your copy is from the 30s or 40s, it's probably the Waley free translation one, though there was an earlier translation to english done in the 1880s. It's only missing one chapter, and it's the Harold Bloom approved version, so labeling it "lacking" was quite wrong of me.

While reading this, I find I have to keep in mind the audience it was written for: women of the 11th century Japanese court. Genji, the Shining Prince, is 18 now and has set his sights on a 10 year old girl, the niece of his first love (the Emperor's wife, who has just learned she is unfortunately pregnant by Genji). I did a bit of research into marriage rites because certain things made little sense - finding out that brides remained in their parents' home (where their husbands visited them) until either the birth of a child or the death of one of the husband's parents clarified certain passages regarding Genji's relationship with his wife (they were married when he was 12; she's several years older).

The obsession with detail in the culture is fascinating; perfection is sought in the smallest things - this book pre-dates the strict formalization of the tea ceremony by about 100 years. The rigid structuralization of certain aspects of modern Japanese life (i.e. there is a specific day when winter clothes are begun to be worn that is observed across the country, regardless of the actual weather conditions; there is a "season" of approximately 6 weeks when calendars are available, before or after that you are out of luck) obviously have very deep roots. Perhaps this stems from Shintoism, which now I want to know more about.

If the amazon reviewer is steve bradbury (recalling from memory), then it might be worth noting that he's a respected sinologist and translated the wonderful work of taiwanese poet hsia yu.

Bradbury is the second reviewer on the Amazon page. He recommends the Waley translation for the language which, from his example (a section I read last night), is more graceful and evocative than the Tyler translation. However, I am greatly appreciative of the illustrations, historical background, and most of the footnotes in the Tyler version. I think, if and when I get through this one, I'll read some (if not all) of the Waley version.

I've been reading the waley trans on and off for the last few months, but I like Tyler's other writings (his book of japanese fairy tales is amazing) and I think those sort of notes would probably help. Would you recommend reading them side-by-side?

Also, just to get it out there--Arthur Waley was one of the most important sinologists of the twentieth century and the modernists and kenneth rexroth loved his writings, seeing him as second only to Pound and the authoritative voice on Asian literature ("finally, to have the chinese translated by a poet and not a scholar, etc."). I'm not a huge fan of his translated poetry, but his genji is the one that virginia woolf and vs pritchett talked about.

I'm beginning to think a side-by-side reading wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll look for a copy of the Waley translation when we are at Powell's this weekend.

Ha! RJM was totally convinced we had another copy of Genji in the house somewhere, and lo and behold I had catalogued it in LibraryThing, and even noted it was in the guest room. 30 minutes later, crawling on the floor under the keyboard (as the guest room has permuted into the music and books and boxes of things for sale on Amazon room), I find it! But, it is an abridged Seidensticker translation. Alas.

I did find a complete Waley translation at Powell's (I think it's a Modern Library edition). Once the boxes show up, I'll try a close reading of the first chapter in all three translations, then see how a parallel reading of the Waley and the Tyler goes. Until then, I'm enjoying the Tyler. Genji just enjoys conquest after conquest, ruining the lives of women and girls right and left.

I haven't tackled Genji yet, although I purchased an old copy of the Waley translation online and it's there waiting, kind of hovering over the rest of my mental TBR list. I recommend before starting it that you read Ivan Morris' The World of the Shining Prince, which is an extremely well-written account of daily life in Heian Japan. I don't usually manage to finish much non-fiction that I start, but I whipped right through this.

Can you give me a three reasons that he was a bad husband to his wives ??? because Im reading this book,this is the one of question that i have to answer for my class. But I don't seem he was a bad husband to his wives. Even He was cheated on his wives, in that society I thought he treated his women well.

i) his plan to sleep with one a night and behead them in the morning
ii) beheading them in the morning
iii) forgot birthdays

Although Genji's behavior in modern times would be horrific and reprehensible (esp. kidnapping a 9-year-old to raise in seclusion to be his concubine), I agree that in the context of Heian Japan his behavior was probably not so bad. There are hints in the text though that Genji feels he is neglecting certain of his wives by not spending enough time with them. Incidents at the Kamo festival roused the jealousy of the Rokujo lady and caused the death of his first legal wife (Aoi) in childbirth. So while perhaps he is not portrayed as willfully bad to his wives, his actions do distress them.

Genji was written as an entertainment for high-born ladies a century after the Heian era, so he was undoubtedly made a gorgeous, charming rogue to maximize his appeal.

Best student question so far.

Yeah, I actually think he read some of it.