non-aspirational sci-fi: does it exist?

i'm not think apocalyptic science fiction (though it could fall under this as well), but science fiction NOT predicated on amazing magical technological breakthroughs. or even specifically where technology has plateaued. in 100 years we're still using fossil fuels, haven't found a cure for cancer, maybe our mp3 players are measured in terabytes but there have been no planet-changing discoveries. maybe people live in space, but getting there (and staying there... no magic food machines or automated asteroid-mining fuel creators) isn't much easier than it is today.

is this out there?

David Brin: Earth
Kim Stanley Robinson: Three Californias trilogy, maybe the 40 Signs Of Rain series
maybe some of Bruce Sterling's non-cyberpunk stuff like Heavy Weather.

some later william gibson, maybe

i wrote this question when i was a little tipsy, does it make sense?

and of the stuff you mentioned, how does it fit the description? not particularly looking for reading recommendations, just curious about whether and how this plays out.

the entire sub-genre of "alternate history" sf to thread.

and of the stuff you mentioned, how does it fit the description?

There's a Brin essay somewhere (it might be the foreword to Earth) where he talks about how some of the most difficult SF to create is something that plausibly takes place within the next 50 years. Unless ETs show up with some sort of unobtainium, you're dependent on what technology is doing right now.

If we're including alternate history stuff, then one of my favorites is Stephen Baxter's Voyage which details an Apollo-tech level mission to Mars.

Ken Kesey: Sailor Song - trust me on this one.

philip k dick

oh sorry, i didn't understand the OP

i do think PKD does a good job of making the future seem as banal and dreary as the present

PK Dick for sure. The Man in the High Castle fits that criteria perfectly, I think.

or what ian said, duh.

ya for sure but there's a lot of magical gizmos in PKD as well.

i know, that's why i apologized; i hadn't read the question carefully enough

i actually don't think you can have sci=fi without magical gizmos. aren't the magical gizmos the "science" "fiction" part of the "science fiction"?

Thomas M. Disch's '334'

i actually don't think you can have sci=fi without magical gizmos. aren't the magical gizmos the "science" "fiction" part of the "science fiction"?

Not necessarily. Have the world nuked to fuck, write a story about people scrabbling for canned food in the wreckage and killing each other with pointed sticks, and you've got something that's definitely (cliched) science-fiction without any magical gizmos.

We're going to be doing a Thomas M. Disch story on Slug of Time called "The Squirrel Cage". It's more about incarceration and the creative process than anything magical.

Also, J.G. Ballard.

James, have you ever seen this page:

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/nuclear/a.htm#A

i have this one, but haven't read it yet:

Hughes, Riley. The Hills Were Liars. Milwaukee: Bruce, 1955. New York: All Saints, 1963.
"This is an exceptional work because it is concerned primarily with the importance of preserving Catholicism in the era after a series of wars beginning in 1964. Civilization has been destroyed; a violent, atheist culture persecutes religion; and few people survive. The novel is the story of a young man in search of his parents and his faith who eventually becomes a priest and then pope. In New York City, the hero explores the horrors of a wax museum, and finds a religious community living in the subway system, now become a new catacombs. In the zoo, he wanders among the bones of dead animals. Money and jewels are useless, but a pair of field glasses proves valuable. The religious community leads an idyllic life for a while in The Cloisters, but is eventually attacked by a band of savage raiders. The hero must learn to reject violence and embrace the Christian way. The distinction between good and evil characters in this novel is simple: the good characters are Catholics, and all the rest are evil (no other faith is mentioned). None of the characters seems to find the world's calamity a cause for religious doubt; the theological problem of evil is not even discussed. It is said that villagers used to stand by the railroad tracks waiting in vain for trains that never came--an obvious parallel to the post-World War II South Pacific cargo cults."

Not necessarily. Have the world nuked to fuck, write a story about people scrabbling for canned food in the wreckage and killing each other with pointed sticks, and you've got something that's definitely (cliched) science-fiction without any magical gizmos.

oh, you mean cormac mccarthy's "the road"? i think we can all agree that's not sci fi, that's just boring old "literary fiction".

Thomas M. Disch's '334'

― milling through the grinder, grinding through the mill (S-), Monday, September 22, 2008

five stars

C.M. Kornbluth's 'Two Dooms'

http://scifipedia.scifi.com/index.php/Two_Dooms

Hi, Scott: yes, for a while there that page was my bible--I ruthlessly hunted down all of the books that sounded a cut above Horseclans/Amtrak wars, etc, and wallowed in nuclear horrors. Great fun.

how about george saunders, or the little-read (but awesome) super flat times?

philip k. dick?

Oh, someone said all that. Sorry. Magic gizmos, yes, but the TONE is definitely the opposite to aspirational.

There must a thousands of short stories like this. All the rocket ship stuff of the 40s and 50s, like "The Cold Equations", where it's just dudes in big rocket ships doing boring military or commercial stuff.

For a novel, how about Arthur C Clarke's "A Fall of Moondust"? 21st century, moon is colonised in a predictable, boring, unmagical way; cruise ship sinks in a crater full of dust and passengers must be rescued. Basically it sounds like yer bog-standard thriller set in a believeable 21st century.

Back to short stories, flicking through the Brian Aldiss anthology there are some more whimsical examples, set in the present and with no gizmos - "The Snowball Effect" by Katherine Maclean - sociological experiment goes awry, local women's sewing circle becomes foundation for total world government. Or "MS Found in Chinese Fortune Cookie" by CM Kornbluth, writer accidentally discovers The Answer to human happiness, is kidnapped and imprisoned in mental hospital for his pains.

I remember one story where a pilot successfully navigates a rogue asteroid field, it turns out he's a keen rugby player and was helped by his experience dodging players on the field. The powers that be are so impressed by this that they order rugby lessons for all prospective pilots. I can't think of a less aspirational or technologically inventive idea.

George Saunders, "Jon" (the short story). It is up on The New Yorker's website.

"All the rocket ship stuff of the 40s and 50s, like "The Cold Equations""

--how about 'we who are about to'--wossname. joanna russ. that perhaps fits.

the cold equations still involves hyperspace drives and stowing away on ships etc - it's pretty out there. i think i know what you guys mean, though - no big deal is made of this stuff, it's all about humans and difficult human choices.

Exactly. I mean I'm sure there are plenty of stories without even hyperdrives, just standard rocket ships going back and forth to mars - but that isn't really the point. "Driftglass" by Sam R Delany features humans modified with gills to work at underwater mining, but in a way that's just an incidental detail, the story could pretty much have been written about a traditional mining community 100 years ago.