Who's the best female literary character of all time?

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I'm thinking it's Tolstoy's Anna Karenin, with probably James's Isabel Archer as a close second and Pynchon's Oedipa Maas and Nabokov's Lolita tying for third. What are your thoughts?

― Tchitcherine, Monday, 14 March 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

I'm afraid I'll never quite get over Jane Eyre. I read that book in 6th grade and it warped me forever. She's my personal favorite, but best??? Pbbbt. I'll let you know when I'm done reading everything.

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:06 (twenty years ago)

Madame Bovary, c'est moi.

― Carl Solomon, Monday, 14 March 2005 23:14 (twenty years ago)

I dunno, is there anybody crazier than Nana?

― Remy (null) (x Jeremy), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

Aunt Agatha's probably the scariest, though I might be basing it entirely on the famous quote of "aunt calling to aunt like mastodons bellowing across the primeval swamp"

― Øystein (Øystein), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I was going to say Aunt Agatha. Maybe now I'll have to go with Aunt Betsy Trotwood.

― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:58 (twenty years ago)

Oh my god, I remember that very quote too! Fuck reading everything, she wins.

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

Please forgive my ignorance, but who is Aunt Agatha?

― everyman (steelkilt), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:20 (twenty years ago)

You don't know Aunt Agatha? Shocking! The next thing we know, you'll be asking who The Empress is!

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 04:28 (twenty years ago)

I'm really happy that Aunt Agatha is sweeping the early polls here, and I will gladly cast my vote her way.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:42 (twenty years ago)

Aunt Agatha.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:43 (twenty years ago)

(Or more likely Aunt Agatha.)

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 05:44 (twenty years ago)

I don't know, I was always fond of Miss Bianca, myself.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 09:10 (twenty years ago)

lolita seems an odd choice to me, and a creepy one.. not because of the paedo aspect, but because the reader can't see her in any way other than humbert's and thus she's solely a sex object (and a mute one, at that).

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm going be rather naff and say Anne Shirley...

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 13:18 (twenty years ago)

I see your point about Lolita. As most fans of the book, I presume, I'm ambivalently fascinated with Humbert's fascination of her. But I'm also I guess captivated by the devastation he wreaks on her life, and her own indifference to this devastation. In this respect, I think maybe "best female character" as the motif of this thread is a bit vague. Almost immediately after I posted my choices, I began thinking that perhaps what I'm really after are the most tragic literary females of all time. Does Lolita make better sense in this category?

― Tchitcherine, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 15:37 (twenty years ago)

well i would nto group isabel archer in that category then.

however i liked her a hell of a lot.

― izzyyyyyyyy, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

Interesting. How do you view Isabel Archer if not tragically?

― Tchitcherine, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

UM it is pretty plain that she was going to knife gilbert in the stomach upon return, that's why henrietta was all "just wait abitsee". that's why i love isabel, i looooooove murderesses!

― the wonderizer, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

ALSO i have a problem with oedipa mass being included. why? she isn't very human. no postmdoern ratfast characters are. including you.

i mean really compare pynchon's characters to joyce's. in fact i would nominate eveline before oedipa.

sounds like we are left with anna vs. isabel vs. jane then.

i beached midway thru ak and je so you know my vote.

― YOU NKOW WHO IT IS, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

Humbert is tragic. Lolita is not tragic.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

OH and OBVIOUSLY there is emma bovary but i do not vote for that bitch.

― redwHine, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:18 (twenty years ago)

No love for the Austen heroines? I like Elizabeth Bennett best in a way but Anne Elliot is probably the discerning lady's choice.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

I'm surprised there hasn't been more stumping for Emma Bovary, or any at all for Molly Bloom, she of the longest psychic soliloquy in literary history.

― Carl Solomon, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 18:00 (twenty years ago)

Hmm. A fat old trollop who lies around in bed and lets her man cook her breakfast. Well, if by "best" you mean "most like me", then yes, I'd vote for Molly.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

i might vote for lily bart, but i think that questions like this are fairly impossible.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

George from the Famous Five

― Joe Kay (feethurt), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

lily bart is one i find fascinating too.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

WE need some obscure and funny nominations.

i will do one. the chick that james bond was gonna marry but she got shot.

― yule turner, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

IRENE adler.

― yule turner, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Molly. Yes. Yes. Yes.

But I would choose the protagonist of Charlotte Perkins Gilman's "The Yellow Wallpaper".

Or Angela Carter's Red Riding Hood, who married the wolf.

― SRH (Skrik), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
To Sherlock Holmes, she was always The Woman.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

Ooh, I had been thinking of Anne Shirley, but on reflection I have to go with my heart and say Elizabeth Bennet, because she really is immortal. If plays count, though, I'd switch to Viola.

― Elise Robinson, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

Blanche DuBois - Streetcar Named Desire, Tennessee Williams

― Shawn Lea, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

Harriet the Spy is the very first character that popped into my mind. She's definitely MY favorite.

After that, I think I'd say Jane Eyre. Or Molly Bloom.

― Sheila O'Malley, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

Screw Jane Eyre, the self-righteous bitch.

If I was going to pick an Austen character, I'd have to go with whassername from Northanger Abbey, who is just great.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

"But I would choose the protagonist of Charlotte Perkins Gilman's 'The Yellow Wallpaper'."

Good call. You know what, I think her name is Jane, and at the end she thinks she's the woman in the wallpaper who's expelled Jane, the husband of John . . . man is that story fucked.

― Carl Solomon, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 22:07 (twenty years ago)

I might be veering from the topic, but there are some thinly veiled fictional and not-so fictional memoirs of daughters writing about their mothers that I have found interesting:
My Old Sweetheart- Susanna Moore
The Furies - Janet Hobhouse
The Lover - Marguerite Duras
Childhood - Nathalie Sarraute

Honorable Mention: Marlene Dietrich in her daughter's bio.

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 02:11 (twenty years ago)

Humbert is tragic. Lolita is not tragic.

Why?

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

It's Dorothea Brooke

― the midfox, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

or Esther Greenwood.

― the bellfox, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Piedie Gimbel.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

Humbert develops and suffers and succeeds and fails; any cathartic experience the reader has is HIS. Lolita is perceived and filtered by him. She's too unformed both as a construct and as a 'woman' to be tragic.

It's years since I read it, mind.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

I agree that she's very significantly framed by him - though I also mark the claims of, I think, Rorty and Wood, about the pathos of the fragments (or the fragments of pathos) that exceed that frame.

I can thus grant her lack of tragedy - but I don't think I can grant his tragic quality. Yet perhaps this represents a failure, on my part, to understand what Tragedy really is, despite (please don't anyone say 'because of') reading 400pp of Terry Eagleton on the subject last summer.

JtN OTM encore, BTW.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

I'd certainly not want to argue as strongly for Humbert's tragedy as for Lolita's lack of it...

I keep changing my mind about the original thread question too - Frankie Adams is pretty damn cool for instance.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

I guess I'm not sure what "best" could possibly mean.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I think it's a lot to ask for us to pick "the best"- that's why Aunt Agatha was "a way out."

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

I suppose you could use this thread, if you'd like, as a platform for lauding your favorite literary female. Tell us who you love, and why you love her. Maybe tell us why you love her more than who you love second most, etc. Or who do you love to hate, and why?

I just finished reading Anna Karenin. I found her to be the most beautifully portrayed of all the women I've read. Those thoughts gave way to Isabel Archer, I guess (and another, now that I think of it, would be Lena Grove from Faulkner's A Light in August). And then Oedipa Maas is just cool and Lolita's the little twit I love to hate.

Ultimately, I think, I'm hoping to walk away from this thread with a queue of scintillating women with which to indulge my fantasy. Maybe this points to a lack of romance in my reality outside of literature, but hey, such is life.

Anyways, I've already received quite a few good ideas, but would definitely love more. I apologize if my roundabout way of getting this done has frustrated or annoyed some people. This is the first thread I've started. I'll try to be more straightforward in the future.

Cheers.

― Tchitcherine, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

1. alice liddell
2. lucy van pelt
3. caddy compson

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

frankie addams is great, as is mick in the heart is a lonely hunter.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 17 March 2005 11:59 (twenty years ago)

jennifer

sasha

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 17 March 2005 13:28 (twenty years ago)

Nicely done, Cozen.

Esther Greenwood: 1st-person POV; her voice - it's endearing, cute, wry, includes some plain beautiful writing; the atmosphere, the attitudes, are prescient, generation-making; she likes food.

Dorothea Brooke - the thing is, she has that kind of beauty that's thrown into relief by poor dress.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

CADDY is an interesting choice and i would place her above those other two.

don't know frankie adams or esther greenwood.

dorothea brooke - - pinefox how long did it take you to read that blasted book? i ask because you are on record as a slow reader, like myself.

maybe i will read it uh this summer.

― the literizer, Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

Bradamante in Ariosto's Orlando Furioso. She pwns all the male knights in whatever form of combat or tournament she enters, and she's a beauteous chaste marriageable Christian into the bargain!

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 18 March 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

I apologize if my roundabout way of getting this done has frustrated or annoyed some people. This is the first thread I've started. I'll try to be more straightforward in the future.

Nonsense, Tchitchi. They are not frustrated or annoyed. They are having fun with definitions. Have no fear.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Friday, 18 March 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

narrator of i capture the castle whose name i have annoyed myself a lot by forgetting; if she's been mentioned i apologise to all concerned and all unconcerned too

― tom west (thomp), Monday, 21 March 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

Uh... maybe not the roundest character ever, but one of my youthful idols was Eowyn the Naazguul (oh dear, sp the sp?) slayer. Dress-up AND monster blood!

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

Humbert is tragic in a Bradleyan sense, totally. I say this becuase I am putting off reading Bradley to post on ILX, not bcz it's useful or anything...

(I wld nominate... Criseyde? Tragic greatnes made out of meekness?)

Macabea!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 02:33 (twenty years ago)

Hehe one of my friends was NAMED after Eowyn, Ann. Bloody hippy parents. I'm not sure she's lived up to her name by slaying any Nasguls or whatever though.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

do you mean cassandra mortmain from i capture the castle?
she ranks up there as one of my favs too.

― centripetalforce, Monday, 28 March 2005 11:42 (twenty years ago)

Agree about the greatness of Anna Karenina, Isabel Archer. Not mentioned so far, Tess Durbeyfield, obviously idealised and an erotic fantasy figure for Hardy (a pure woman, indeed) but still 3 dimensional and luminous.

― frankiemachine, Tuesday, 29 March 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

Chaucer's version of Criseyda pwns

― special needs trust, Tuesday, 29 March 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

That first letter from the Greek camp! So so amazing.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 29 March 2005 23:29 (twenty years ago)

Chaucer's version of Criseyda pwns

Henrysons "Testament" is a better poem, though. And shorter.

― frankiemachine, Wednesday, 30 March 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...

i wonder what sort of distinctions i made (i know i made some) between the hardy boys and nancy drew, at the point when i read the hardy boys and nancy drew.

― Josh (Josh), Saturday, 27 August 2005 05:39 (twenty years ago)

I'm glad you're feeling all revivalist tonight.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 27 August 2005 08:38 (twenty years ago)

i got that old time religion.

― Josh (Josh), Saturday, 27 August 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

I will answer this question just as soon as I finish reading all of literature. I promise.

― Aimless (Aimless), Saturday, 27 August 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

you will never finish reading all of literature.

― Josh (Josh), Saturday, 27 August 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Don't interrupt me; I'm reading as fast as I can.

― Aimless (Aimless), Saturday, 27 August 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

Hey, Aimless, you can take A-M and I'll take N-Z, that should make it more manageable.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 27 August 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

Why not just follow in Art Garfunkel's footsteps and read the dictionary, in dictionary order?

― k/l (Ken L), Saturday, 27 August 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)

Moll Flanders

― Heave Ho, Sunday, 28 August 2005 06:39 (twenty years ago)

isn't

― Heave Ho, Sunday, 28 August 2005 06:52 (twenty years ago)

if i had ever finished 'john's wife' i would say 'john's wife' just to be clever.

― Josh (Josh), Sunday, 28 August 2005 07:23 (twenty years ago)

i remember thinking nancy drew was so *girly* coz she always crushed on boys and went shopping.

i don't remember thinking of the hardy boys as *manly* tho.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 28 August 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

But were they *boyly*?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 28 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

they had 'adventures'. even to my tender young mind that seemed like shorthand for THEY ARE BOYS GET IT? RRRRRR.

― Josh (Josh), Sunday, 28 August 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

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