Is there a literary equivalent to Albini's "The Problem With Music" Baffler article?

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http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
I get the sense that the publishing world is even more underhanded
and vicious in its treatment of authors than major labels are
of artists, but has anyone compiled a similar balance statement -- costwise?
If not, can someone?

robt, Thursday, 28 April 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

This is by no means the equivalent of Albini's screed, but does get a little at the pressures first-time novelists contend with.

http://www.nypress.com/18/15/news&columns/harrysiegel.cfm

Mayor Maynot, Friday, 29 April 2005 00:12 (twenty years ago)

I was always under the impression that the publishing world was actually not quite as underhanded in its treatment of authors as the music biz is with artists. Am I wrong?

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 29 April 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)

but does get a little at the pressures first-time novelists contend with.

Or at least the scrutiny that those deemed "bright young (male) authors" get subjected to?

Anyway thanks for that link, my girlfriend detests JSF and she enjoyed it.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 29 April 2005 02:14 (twenty years ago)

Gosh, JSF is everyone's new love-to-hate object isn't he?

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 29 April 2005 02:38 (twenty years ago)

I know I'll agree with the bad reviews if I read the book (didn't like the first one), but I think that review goes overboard.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 29 April 2005 02:40 (twenty years ago)

*I was always under the impression that the publishing world was actually not quite as underhanded in its treatment of authors as the music biz is with artists.*

Well at least publishers dont charge authors w/ the production costs of their book in the way that record companies subtract the cost of recording from future royalties for musicians. So, yes IMHO.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Friday, 29 April 2005 09:03 (twenty years ago)

Jesus, that Siegel piece is horrid and unpleasant and low.

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 29 April 2005 09:09 (twenty years ago)

it's in the new york press, so i'm not surprised. the paper is a vanity publishing project by an extremely wealthy "libertarian" douchebag.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 29 April 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

Don't publishers routinely insist on an editor being assigned to
a book project? Even though there aren't the same kind of
material costs in writing that are analogous to the production costs
in recording, perhaps the editor may claim the same kind of
"points" against the author's royalties as a music producer does
against album sales. Can anyone confirm these practices?

Also, it seems to me that, with few exceptions, much of the
literary prestige there is to go around belongs to the major
publishing houses, the ones with the greatest lineage and pedigree,
whereas in music, the situation is exactly the opposite, so publishing seems to offer fewer viable alternatives to the prospective author.

robt, Friday, 29 April 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

The 'recording' cost of the book is the advance that the author lives on, and that gets recouped, right?

I suppose major label bands have advances AND expensive recording/producer fees, though.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 29 April 2005 16:58 (twenty years ago)

That Siegel review is actually the first thing I've read which has made me feel any desire to read "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close".

o. nate (onate), Friday, 29 April 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

The 'recording' cost of the book is the advance that the author lives on, and that gets recouped, right?

I suppose major label bands have advances AND expensive recording/producer fees, though.

-- Jordan (jordan...), April 29th, 2005.

Well, there's not really anything shady about a publisher recouping an advance. That's why it's called an "advance."

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 30 April 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

Oh well, being treated like shit gives you loads of material, ho ho ho...

Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 2 May 2005 04:50 (twenty years ago)

Albini's famous piece is not entirely accurate. I've never come across the 'deal memo' in the UK, so I suppose it's an American business practice. But he fails to comprehend that perhaps said artists actively want the attention and the cosseting and the bullshitting- why else would they even get up on stage? If they were simply in it for the money, then they'd be hard working single-minded engineers running their own studios. Like one S. Albini for example. As he makes a big noise about 'recording' rather than 'producing' bands (i.e. pointing out where they might be going wrong, the minimum definition of a competent producer), he certainly covers his back in case of disaster or success.

An editor probably makes as much in salary as many authors earn from sales, so points would be irrelevant. The top names must be on a decent sum.

snotty moore, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 00:11 (twenty years ago)

Well, there's not really anything shady about a publisher recouping an advance. That's why it's called an "advance."

I didn't mean that it was shady, just that there are "production costs" in publishing too.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 03:41 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but as far as I know, publishers do not recoup production costs.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 03:47 (twenty years ago)

Jordan, are you referring to the author's PD costs or the publisher's?

Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

There are probably other people here who know much more about this than I do, but my impression was always that the publishing version is more-or-less fair. They give you an advance (so you have something to live on before the book is done), and then of course, since it's an advance, they don't pay you more until your owed percentage of the sales is greater than the advance money.

The difference is that in the record industry, the "advance" includes shit that the record company really should pay for, like recording costs.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

I was referring to author's costs, not the actual cost of making the books.

I don't know a whole lot about the inside workings of the publishing industry, but I'll have to ask my bookseller stepmom for some more details.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 23:51 (twenty years ago)

I suppose the record industry's "argument" (read "scam") is that the record as a whole is, like the book as a whole, a product created by the artist that the label then agrees to promote and distribute. However, this is complete and utter horseshit.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 00:10 (twenty years ago)

Hurting OTM. No book royalties till author "earns back" advance.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 09:00 (twenty years ago)

Don't publishers routinely insist on an editor being assigned to
a book project? Even though there aren't the same kind of
material costs in writing that are analogous to the production costs
in recording, perhaps the editor may claim the same kind of
"points" against the author's royalties as a music producer does
against album sales. Can anyone confirm these practices?

all books have editors, yes, but their role is in no way like that of the producer, or not usually. *some* editors (of books be celeb authors) *do* have a lot of work: they basically rewrite books the celebs are too lazy to do properly, and some really big authors have a close (if odd) relationship with the editors. so the editor of, say, jilly cooper, will be a kind of 'guy chambers' figure.

but in general editors see the book from MS to print, and don't get involved as much as you'd imagine -- before the book is written the contents will have been agreed on, because nobody wants unpredictable rewrites once the thing is on the books.

i've never heard of the 'points' thing, but i guess the top-rank eds do have a strange set-up.

N_RQ, Wednesday, 4 May 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sfwa.org/beware/agents.html
Here's something I found regarding agents. I still can't find
a similar expose of publishers, althought the article hints
at the "backroom" culture of publishing.
There was also an article a while ago about SF writers with agents
versus without agents, and those with agents on average tended
to command higher royalties -- which makes it seem that agents
are a fairly necessary cost, similar to an entertainment lawyer for
musicians.

robt, Thursday, 5 May 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...
An update -- I happened across this: http://nomediakings.org/Economic.htm
It has a pie chart.

robt, Monday, 19 December 2005 23:57 (nineteen years ago)

Just in case everyone hasn't already figured this stuff out already:

Author gets an advance, which is to cover their "costs" during the writing of the book (of course most advances don't come close, on an hourly basis, but that goes w/ the territory). Publisher makes an effort only to acquire, that is, contract to publish, books that they have calculated will sell well enough to at least earn back the author's advance (based on an author getting, like, 10% percent of the house's take on a book, which is NOT the same as the cover price since bookstores don't pay retail). The author is NOT liable for any of the costs of producing the book, the publisher assumes that investment, and if the book is a flop and never sells enough copies for the publisher to recoup the amount of the author's advance, a process known as "earning out", the author does not owe it back -- that advance money is the publisher's risk from the beginning.

I think that last point is the biggest difference between publishing & recording, at least as I understand it. The job of an editor (as said above) is really to provide guidance about content, plot arc, some of the gritty bits of writing, etc, up to and including a significant amount of hand-holding, depending on the personalities of the editor & author involved. (First-time authors can be especially fragile.)

I've never heard of "points" or "deal memos" in the sense meant by the Albini piece but I don't deal with agents anymore so maybe I'm just not up on the cut-throat aspects. As far as I'm aware, the greatest hold a house can really have over a particular author is to retain an "option" on the next work that author offers for publication, and even then if the author's next project isn't really up that publisher's alley, they may just refuse their option and be done with it -- it's not usually a big deal.

There's more about agents, subrights, and the reversion of publishing rights back to the author, but if anyone was reading this at all they're probably sound asleep by now.

Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 20 December 2005 00:59 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think bands actually "owe back" their advances if their records flop either. Am I wrong?

Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 20 December 2005 04:38 (nineteen years ago)

hm. i should write a novel.

tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 20 December 2005 11:10 (nineteen years ago)


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