About these books...

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I'm 22 years old and kind of new to literature. I used to write short stories a lot when I was a kid and recently decided, since I didn't have anything better to do, to go ahead and really try to develop it. I guess my question is, how important is it for a writer to understand the mechanics of what he's writing? Because as far as reading goes, I seem to have a sort of handicap when it comes to finding theme and irony and all that. On college English exams I always seem to have the wrong answer to these kinds of questions. But I mean, I know bad writing when I see it. I just hate examining a story to death to find out why it's good or bad and what makes it work and why. Is this something that you just 'get' after a while? Because it seems like every literary person I've ever talked to understands this stuff a lot better than me, and it's really frustrating.

I guess I was sort of hoping that writing was something you could just sort of feel your way through, and if you told a convincing enough story, all that side stuff like theme and whatnot would just fall into place naturally. Is this just wishful thinking?

Dan Dotson (Podslapper), Friday, 16 September 2005 10:46 (twenty years ago)

Nabisco to thread. Or...not.

Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

Well, let's put it this way: When you tell stories, are your friends rapt or just nodding along? Even when it's a story that isn't particularly interesting? Be honest now!

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 16 September 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Casuistry is mostly right, but telling stories verbally allows a wide range of dramatic effects that do not translate immediately to a page of writing - such as mimicry of voices, dramatic pauses, changes of tone, facial expressions and such like. So, even if you can spellbind your friends and casual acquaintances telling stories aloud, you may still fall flat when you commit it to paper and hand it to them to read. Art requires craft.

Aimless (Aimless), Friday, 16 September 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

Give it a go though, eh?

Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 September 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

Don't know, I've never told a story verbally.

Dan Dotson (Podslapper), Friday, 16 September 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure you need to know the analytical English-majorly sorts of things about spotting themes and things like that. But you do need to read a lot, and with an eye toward not necessarily what it means or what you can make it mean or how to analyze it, but how it's made, how it achieves its effects. If you read something and say, wow, that was really great, step back a moment and think about what exactly you're responding to. Even a good line, think about what makes you say, dang that's a good line. Is it a particularly striking metaphor, the rhythm of it...? Personally, I think it's important to become more self-aware about how you read, but for different reasons, maybe, than you're cultivate self-awareness in a literature class. The question to keep in mind is, what can I take away from this? Which doesn't have to be something technical. Reading something just to get that electric shock from language is enough.

pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Friday, 16 September 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

What books do you have in mind, anyway?

pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Friday, 16 September 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

...if you told a convincing enough story, all that side stuff like theme and whatnot would just fall into place naturally.

Yes and no. A compelling story is rather naturally equipped with a theme, but it isn't an accident. A story becomes compelling by drawing out its theme, rather the way a painter can make the eyes of a portrait come alive by touching the tiniest amount of paint in the proper place on the pupil.

You can accomplish these touches for a story by instinct, but you'll never understand why you fail sometimes and why other times you succeed, and more importantly, how to turn failure into success with a few edits. Writing is moderately easy. Rewriting is what divides the goats from the sheep.

Aimless (Aimless), Friday, 16 September 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

touching the tiniest amount of paint in the proper place on the pupil
The literary device Aimless is using here is known as alliteration - so nice he used it twice! You should probably be aware of that, if you don't want to appear aliterate.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 16 September 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

Boo!

pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Friday, 16 September 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

pr00de OTM.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 16 September 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

In his first post, at least.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 16 September 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

Hey Pr00d and Aimless, thanks for the great replies.

Dan Dotson (Podslapper), Friday, 16 September 2005 17:33 (twenty years ago)

Anytime, man. And I meant that "boo" with greatest affection, K/L.

pr00de, where's my car? (pr00de), Friday, 16 September 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

I've never told a story verbally.

How do you usually tell stories? Mime?

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 16 September 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Every time I read the title of this thread, I hear Marlene Dietrich singing "Black Market" in A Foreign Affair. Only she's singing about "these goods" instead of "these books."

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 16 September 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

Don't worry too much.

Here's a story you might find reassuring. Last year, around the publication of The Plot Against America, I saw Philip Roth speak and take questions at Columbia. Someone asked him about a scene in which a seemingly minor character tries to help the narrator open a stuck bathroom door -- asking, of course, after the possible symbolism of the door, the thematic significance of the narrator's being stuck behind it, and the role of this woman in trying to open it. It's her only real appearance in scene, after all -- surely what she's doing means something!

Okay so Roth answers in the same thoughtful tone, as if he's revealign the inner workings of the prize-winning novelist. And he says something like this: "Well, I got to the part at the end where she dies. And I thought, well, this death will have much more emotional impact if we've actually seen her in the book, actually had her in a scene and gotten to know her. So I went back and added that part."

Whoah duh! This is an extreme example, but it's something I kind of like about Roth -- he'll actually talk about writing on the kind of boneheaded level that writing often has to get done. If you're gonna kill someone, it helps to introduce her first -- anyone who's ever seen Star Trek is familiar with this.

Point is: the vocabulary of breaking down and analyzing literature is different from the vocabulary of building it in the first place; they're very different practices. Just because you don't feel up to speed on one doesn't mean anything about the other; hell, I can think of lots of instances where being non-conversant with critical stuff makes people less self-conscious and more effective in making art.

What you do want to worry about is whether you feel like you understand the mechanics of writing -- from that butt-obvious level Roth's talking about above all the way up to how to create subtle effects. You want to have a sense of how every decision you could possibly make will affect the whole piece. Not necessarily right away, or anything -- just write and see what happens. But that's the part that's important.

I mean, with writing, you're first and foremost the carpenter -- not the architecture critic.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 16 September 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

And another helpful reply. Thanks.

Dan Dotson (Podslapper), Saturday, 17 September 2005 05:46 (twenty years ago)


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