Thanks Again, ARSEHOLES

Then why bother being me?

having said that, im here right now arent i? procrastination of study is a terrible thing!

forgive the intrusion, carry on fellers

At this point, yes.

There is no such thing as free speech on any of these forums and if someone is going to be an irritating pest, that person shouldn't be too surprised when the moderators lose all patience and remove them from the site. If that bothers you, you have two choices:

1) Get over it.
2) Leave.

Personally, I don't care if Esteban gets banned or not but I can't see how making threads about how all of the mods are assholes are conducive to a long and/or tolerated ILX presence.

There's something kind of tragic about a troll that even Ken C and Mark Grout don't want to play with.

NO COMPLAINING ALLOWED

A message board is defined by its a) mods and b) trolls, correct? How a) deal with b), and up until recently trolls never became a _massive_ concern on the site. Calum was pretty much neutered as soon as he became anything more than a tick, Becky Lucas was shut down ASAP, etc etc etc. With Esteban this hasn't been the case. Why? The way you've been dealing with him seems to be a bizarre hotch-potch of over and underreacting, which seems to be the vogue on this site currently.

Esteban got worse as soon as Jess started claiming (whether as a troll move, or he was just unable to read IP addresses properly) that I was he. It gave him a kind of... escape clause? If the membership of a site think a troll is actually a regular poster under a pseudonym (and, if you can't believe a mod, who can you believe?) then it stands to reason that the troll is going to move from mild irritation (I mean, did anyone care about Esteban's fanny about up until January?) to Esteban's current mass disruption, attempt cookie-fucking, and other assorted crimes.

Similarly, the "FAQ" for this site is horrid. Too much is left to discretion, and if bannings/deletings/movings are based more around how much caffeine the moderators have had that day than actual Hard Set Rules, then how can you expect newcomers, or even bored regulars, to know how to act? The mods want to run a tighter ship here? That's fine, I and anyone else sane enough to warrant poster here wouldn't dream of disagreeing with that. But you're going to need rules then, rather than "Meh, we can do that because I said so". I mean, recently... mods mass deleting posts in an attempt to impress their message board buddies? Someone coming on to the mod request board to ask if a thread Sterling Clover was posting to on ILM (I forget the topic, but its in the archive) was worthy of moderation, and the mod who decided if it was or was not was.... Sterling? Similarly, the YSI thing? That only works if mods are prepared to *look* for YSIs. I mean, ILM only has 80/90 active posts a day, right? Between five mods that amounts to ten minutes each. There is no excuse for rapidshares or whatever getting through. That's not even human error, that's laziness.

ILW getting deleted? Care. It'd be nice to know a reason why, and I think tehre is room for a circlejerk board that isn't Noize on this site, but I'm not gonna throw my hands in the air about it. Andrew is the only one who has the ability to delete boards, correct? He's not exactly the biggest fan of Noize.

So, yeah. A message board is only as good as its moderators. If the site slacking... well, there's only one group to blame.

Attempted silly javascript doesn't equal attempted cookie stealing, ace.

This is bollocks, and you know it Dom:

Calum was pretty much neutered as soon as he became anything more than a tick,

The situation with Calum went on for over a year. Some of the "discussions" over what to do w/r/t Calum were ridiculously overheated and went on, and on and on. there was also a period during which all of his posts were made invisible to logged in users. What eventually "neutered" Calum was Teeny taking it upon herself to delete everything he posted, and everyone being tired of him.

Becky Lucas was shut down ASAP, etc etc etc.

Shuting down Becky was a pretty fucking major undertaking, involving a request to posters not to reply to her across the top of the board, which was coded in asuch a way that only she couldn't see it.

With Esteban this hasn't been the case. Why? The way you've been dealing with him seems to be a bizarre hotch-potch of over and underreacting, which seems to be the vogue on this site currently.

"Esteban's" first lot of posting was an immense crapflood of sub-gnaa homophobic trolling on ILM, which resulted in the 3 or 4 ips he was coming in from being banned by noodles. He is now using a proxy, tor or suchlike to post to ilx from, so there's no way of banning him apart from locking the board to unregistered users, which has been discussed and rejected more than once in the past. I have no idea what you are refering to as "overreacting" unless you mean Andrew deleting the aja/dante board and (presumably it was andrew, I don't know) deleting ILW. Personally, I don't have any opinion on this,it's Andew's board, he can do what the fuck he wants with it.

Esteban got worse as soon as Jess started claiming (whether as a troll move, or he was just unable to read IP addresses properly) that I was he. It gave him a kind of... escape clause? If the membership of a site think a troll is actually a regular poster under a pseudonym (and, if you can't believe a mod, who can you believe?) then it stands to reason that the troll is going to move from mild irritation (I mean, did anyone care about Esteban's fanny about up until January?) to Esteban's current mass disruption, attempt cookie-fucking, and other assorted crimes.

Rubbish, Dom. As "Esteban's" first lot of posting to ILM was as above, which plenty of people complained about at the time, it's obvious he's got a lot less annoying of late. Most of the time, he just seems to be this vaguely creepy weirdo, the only mod actions I've taken on him recently have been a/his perpetual draqgging of a/d drama onto the mod board and b/his nuisance posting on that robin carmody thread yesterday, or whenever it was.

Similarly, the "FAQ" for this site is horrid. Too much is left to discretion, and if bannings/deletings/movings are based more around how much caffeine the moderators have had that day than actual Hard Set Rules, then how can you expect newcomers, or even bored regulars, to know how to act? The mods want to run a tighter ship here? That's fine, I and anyone else sane enough to warrant poster here wouldn't dream of disagreeing with that. But you're going to need rules then, rather than "Meh, we can do that because I said so". I mean, recently... mods mass deleting posts in an attempt to impress their message board buddies? Someone coming on to the mod request board to ask if a thread Sterling Clover was posting to on ILM (I forget the topic, but its in the archive) was worthy of moderation, and the mod who decided if it was or was not was.... Sterling? Similarly, the YSI thing? That only works if mods are prepared to *look* for YSIs. I mean, ILM only has 80/90 active posts a day, right? Between five mods that amounts to ten minutes each. There is no excuse for rapidshares or whatever getting through. That's not even human error, that's laziness.

I don't see how there can be any "hard set rules" seeing as the site is totally dynamic, and seems to me to change its whole persona/style every couple of days. It's not exactly difficult to "know how to act" anyway: 1/don't be a persistent cunt to people 2/don't spam 3/(new 2006) don't use the site to trade copyrighted material. No-body is being lazy FFS. PEOPLE HAVE JOBS/COLLEGE COURSES/CHILDREN. Nobody is being paid for this, people are doing it in their spare time. The board is constantly changing, threads updating all the time. Do you expect people to constantly police threads when they have businesses to run etc?

ILW getting deleted? Care. It'd be nice to know a reason why, and I think tehre is room for a circlejerk board that isn't Noize on this site, but I'm not gonna throw my hands in the air about it. Andrew is the only one who has the ability to delete boards, correct? He's not exactly the biggest fan of Noize.

A matter of indifference to me, I assume Andrew just found it annoying, I don't know though.

So, yeah. A message board is only as good as its moderators. If the site slacking... well, there's only one group to blame.

So basically, this is part #167 of your ongoing weird beef with Jess and Sterling (among others) amirite?

Attempted silly javascript doesn't equal attempted cookie stealing, ace.

I'll take jon's opinion on this over yours, I think.

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man):

attacking the person instead of attacking his argument. For example, "Von Daniken's books about ancient astronauts are worthless because he is a convicted forger and embezzler." (Which is true, but that's not why they're worthless.)

I agree with Dom that the FAQ is a load of bullshit and that you're making up the rules as you go along. Then complain when nobody follows these non-existant rules.

Of course, if it's so tough for the poor old Mods, you'd give the job to somebody else. But that would mean you wouldn't be able to boss people around like the self-important twat you are, so forget it.

This is the only bit that really needs responding to:

a) how can you expect people to behave consistently if you don't know what constants you wan't them to behave to?
b) surely the moderation system has been set up so that there are US, UK, and Aus moderators? Ie, moderation can occur 24-hours-a-day, 24 time zones wide. The only reason I bring this up is due to what Andrew said earlier on in the week: "I don't expect the moderators to catch every YSI". Now, considering the stated reason for banning YSIs is to avoid legal action for copyright breach, do you really think that "Oh, I was too busy looking after my business to spot that" will stand up in rounds of court as a defence?

none of...what? the last 12 months of esteban and dom arguing about esteban and dom on a moderator thread?

b/ Take it up with Andrew. His explanation for banning ysis etc - basically that at the end of the day it's his ass on the line - seems perfectly reasonable to me.

It's not exactly difficult to "know how to act" anyway: 1/don't be a persistent cunt to people 2/don't spam 3/(new 2006) don't use the site to trade copyrighted material.

I thought of a fourth thing - 4/don't crapflood.

when you say "overreacting", are you referring to Andrew deleting the A/D board? You seem to be assuming in your argument that his doing that was to do w/dealing with "esteban". I just checked his post on that "don't post to aja/dante..." thread. It wasn't.

From what I can see, no one at all cared about the second Esteban except for Dom and Forklovestofu, and the moderators who were forced to trawl through threads worth of people childishly yapping at one another in a "sir, sir, he called my a cunt!" manner in order to get to the actual requests. He was nothing more than an ignorable nuisance on any other thread and anything else that happened occured on fringe boards that no one in their right mind ever reads. At no point in the past few months has anyone said "Esteban is ruining ILX for me" - not the case with Calum/Becky. And Dom, you seriously think that taking it upon yourself to Fight The Baddies has actually helped? At least be honest, you did it because you thought it was funny.

As for the rest of your points Dom, is this anything other than a thinly-veiled jab at Jess and Sterling (and maybe Andrew)? I heart Jess but don't really think he's a suitable moderator for fairly obvious reasons. As for Andrew, as with Alan and Noodles, he's de facto required to get involved with the politics of the board unless it directly affects him (ie dubious legality of YSI threads). He owns the server, he is not required to make top-down rules governing every single fucking aspect of the boards (and frankly, or should he).

That only works if mods are prepared to *look* for YSIs. I mean, ILM only has 80/90 active posts a day, right? Between five mods that amounts to ten minutes each. There is no excuse for rapidshares or whatever getting through. That's not even human error, that's laziness.

This is bollocks, there are hundreds of ILM posts a day. I am far from convinced at Andrew's rationale behind the YSI thing and he knows it, but moderators are required to respond to requests, not trawl the board periodically to tidy up after you lot.

Argh, I meant Andrew ISN'T required to... etc etc.

a) The Noise Board has no effect on anything else that happens on ILE, because it's all confined to the Noise Board. Therefore...
b) There is an argument for allowing pointless circle-jerk threads so trolls can fight with one another outside the view of everyone else. The A/D board only became an issue because you lot trampled all over the mod threads with it.
c) Nothing particularly bad ever happens on the Noise Board. It's not like it's the seventh circle of hell or anything. At least be honest about having an issue with Jon rather attempting to attack the person via the icon or whatever.

This is actually (to my understanding) completely true, especially if you look at some of the earlier Esteban posts there were at least three or four Estebans (different ways of spelling the name, one had an interest in baseball which kinda precludes him being Australian, and so forth). Garu G being another example of this phenomenon.

ILM has 80/90 active *threads* a day, I correct myself. And again, all it needs is for someone to skim-read to look for links/embedded links, I cannot see how this would be beyond a group of 5, 6, 7 adults with reading skills and broadband.

And Dom, you seriously think that taking it upon yourself to Fight The Baddies has actually helped? At least be honest, you did it because you thought it was funny.

"Provocateur" is French for asshole, so perhaps.

And jobs, Dom. They have jobs.

Although I have no doubt this is not Dom's main bone of contention, the party line has been that Andrew expects ILM mods to delete YSI links as and when they happen across them rather than explicitly seeking them out. To do otherwise would require someone to actually divvy up the day's workload beforehand, and frankly I doubt anyone wants to be the one going "Norman, you're doing Reef - Classic Or Dud?, The Rolling Death Metal Thread and Is The Singer From The Arctic Monkeys The Hottest Thing Since Marissa Marchants". Let alone the poor fucker responsible for skimming them again and again.

My problem with Noize? Why should it exist when the Aja/Dante Krew are not allowed to have its own board? And don't give me shit about "spilling drama" here because I made a couple of requests that were ignored and mocked.

Besides, I like to make history ^___^

Fucking off is one.

But he likes yanking everyones chains, and here it seems like chains are easily yanked, so I dunno. *shrug*.

I know! :D

lollers

lollers

*i dont know who "they" are. i suspect i never will. its unlikely this matters. everything is good. it always is

Anyway, this is a mod thread, so no more silliness from me, I'm out.

...not that I would consider doing such a thing!

Oh wait...

BTW, why wasn't IDME deleted?

Eh, which of the site admins posts regularly to the Noize board? I certainly don't give a fuck.

Then why delete forums, left and right, cock-knocker?

Me, you, Jess and Jody, I think are the only ones. Good music discussion on the noise board.

Then why delete forums, left and right, cock-knocker?

I've only deleted one forum in the past six months. Boo hoo.

Two, actually. Aimed at the Aja/Dante Krew. PS: Stop being a cunt, thx.

I wonder who deleted the ILW board, then?

Nope. I didn't delete ILW.

Just give the Aja/Dante Krew its board back with admin powers, will you? To end this for once and for all.