Mina gets assaulted in the first or second issue of the first series. Or at least threatened to be assaulted by swarthy foreigners.
― Matt M., Friday, 13 July 2012 04:03 (twelve years ago) link
in the 80s when I was a kid and couldn't buy them at comic book stores
these were out in TPBs from 1986 which iirc was the 80s
― ¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Friday, 13 July 2012 04:44 (twelve years ago) link
No rape in Killing Joke, just the jolly breaking of a woman's spine.
Am I the only one who felt rape was totally implied in that scene, and the only reason Moore didn't explicitly use it was because it was a mainstream DC book and a major character?
― Tuomas, Friday, 13 July 2012 06:33 (twelve years ago) link
Yes, probably.
― Desire is withered away from the sons of men! (aldo), Friday, 13 July 2012 06:49 (twelve years ago) link
if you're trying to tell me that I saw them in stores when I was a kid you are sadly mistaken
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 July 2012 15:47 (twelve years ago) link
I think I saw some Maxwell the Magic Cat strips reprinted in a Comics Journal interview story once tho
There was some US floppy which was printing Bojeffries as a backup every issue back then. Dalgoda? I also remember being able to get D.R. and Quinch p easily.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Friday, 13 July 2012 15:53 (twelve years ago) link
Dalgoda yes. I have those - they are good! I was buying pretty much everything with Alan Moore's name on it around that time. If I had seen Halo Jones or Captain Britain TPBs I would have bought them. I did not.
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:00 (twelve years ago) link
DR and Quinch was reprinted in Warrior... iirc? (along with Miracleman and the OG b&W V for Vendetta)
warpsmith and skizz I don't think I ever even heard of. I just think it's weird to act like these were widely-read/widely available on a par with Swamp Thing/Miracleman/V for Vendetta etc. they strike me as pretty stereotypical insignificant early work
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:03 (twelve years ago) link
stereotypicalLY
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
I bought MAXWELL THE MAGIC CAT collections in the mid-80s, but they only showed up in really big comic shops (only saw them in a couple across all of Southern California.) Moore could sell superheroes, but strips were another matter.
― Matt M., Friday, 13 July 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
When was 2000 A.D. Monthly coming out in the US? I think that's where I read a lot of this stuff.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
My LCS in Memphis had Maxwell collections, but I passed on them. I think the only Warpsmith story I've seen was one in the Atomeka anthology A1. (The Bojeffries stories in those were better anyway.)
― Neil Jung (WmC), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:09 (twelve years ago) link
(warrior #4 story here as jpgs http://thewarriorscomicbookden.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/saga-of-swamp-thing-32-greatest-comic.html plus links to cbr copies of that and the rest, i think)
― koogs, Friday, 13 July 2012 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
((not tried links, required sign-up, maybe expired))
wtf def never seen that before!
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 July 2012 17:29 (twelve years ago) link
warrior stuff really wasn't readily available in the US even through the 90's. I mean you COULD find it but it didn't even really trumpet the fact that it was moore and I did hunt it down over the years.
― This clam, stranded on someone’s floor, is trying to dig itself (forksclovetofu), Friday, 13 July 2012 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
the fact that these comics were or weren't available in america is BESIDE THE POINT. Shakey asked: are there any runs of comics by alan moore w/out rape in them, and i offered a few examples of runs of comics by alan moore w/out rape in them. i'm sure there are others. now i think WmC raises the interesting question of why this troubling repetition of rape as theme and scene - and i agree it exists in many of the examples cited - was far less common during the early part of alan's (mostly british) career. and i'm sure there are many gd answers - the american comics were less stringently edited, over time it became an idee fixee, whatev - that don't involve the merits or o/wise of euro comic distribution in america. that's all.
i managed to acquire some v nice smokeable hemp produce earlier on today which is why i'm up too late discussing this stuff but now i shld go to bed. gnight ilcers.
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 13 July 2012 22:30 (twelve years ago) link
I guess I'm just as dismissive of that early stuff as Alan is lol, it's a pretty small/largely insignificant part of his ouevre imho, things he did before his true rape-y interests came to the fore haha
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 July 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
anything i havent read is insignificant - Shakey Mo Collir.e
― Black_vegeta (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 13 July 2012 23:11 (twelve years ago) link
you forgot the all-important 'lol' or 'haha'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 13 July 2012 23:25 (twelve years ago) link
lol you have gone from "this never existed" to "ok it existed but it was never available in the US" to "so it existed and was available in the US but I never saw it and therefore you're STILL WRONG and it's NO GOOD ANYWAY I bet"
you r very i
― ¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Saturday, 14 July 2012 01:01 (twelve years ago) link
weren't the earlier strips aimed at a younger market? what was the average age of someone buying 2000ad? warrior?
― koogs, Saturday, 14 July 2012 09:38 (twelve years ago) link
The demographic of 2000AD at that time(early eighties) was boys aged 8 - 14, I think? I couldn't say the exact age range for Warrior, but it was definitely aimed at a much older, "mature" audience. I guess if they were hoping to appeal to readers that grew up with the original Marvelman, that would put it at mid-twenties to thirties? Maybe.
― Pheeel, Saturday, 14 July 2012 10:44 (twelve years ago) link
this has gone oddly like that ilm thread where someone asked for a top 100 songs about rape
― thomp, Saturday, 14 July 2012 13:31 (twelve years ago) link
I love this ILX tactic where posters misrepresent what was actually said to score points CLASSIC
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 14 July 2012 14:06 (twelve years ago) link
Ward is OTM that the availability of this stuff is largely irrelevant, my only point in this thread derail was that Moore's non-rapey material predates his prominence - why that is is a more interesting question but who cares about that let's play collection-stack-measuring internet pedant instead
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 14 July 2012 14:08 (twelve years ago) link
my suspicion is that this relies on something like 'the reification of traditions of popular fiction' (oy) but don't ask me to make that idea work - like, that we now arrive at a place where you can write the league of extraordinary gentlemen says essentially bad things about our culture, in ways that moore may or may not be aware to the extent he is complicit in
-
try and imagine loeg '12 with the cast of twilight, harry potter and law and order: svu
hey i was almost right!
― thomp, Saturday, 14 July 2012 14:15 (twelve years ago) link
anyway, it's funny that the last part of century came out the same week as 50 shades of grey became the best selling commercial object ever, because there is absolutely nothing that separates them
― thomp, Saturday, 14 July 2012 14:32 (twelve years ago) link
Ouch.
― Matt M., Saturday, 14 July 2012 15:19 (twelve years ago) link
cranky mo collier
― ¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Saturday, 14 July 2012 19:55 (twelve years ago) link
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/mary-poppins-fight-voldemort-olympic-opening-ceremony-170354031--oly.html
Can I hear you say WTFUCKINGF?
― Desire is withered away from the sons of men! (aldo), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 10:28 (twelve years ago) link
Do we get the penis ray gun too?
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 11:59 (twelve years ago) link
One can only hope.
― Desire is withered away from the sons of men! (aldo), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 12:26 (twelve years ago) link
Speaking of which, was there any literary significance behind the penis ray gun or was it just a cheaply crowbarred dick joke on the part of Moore?
Can't say I enjoyed 2009 very much at all. I couldn't even be arsed to read Minions on the Moon. Is it worthwhile? Considering how much I <3 the first two books, the rapid decline of this series has been more disappointing than I can put into words.
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 13:32 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not sure what the joke in that joke would be, but I would be surprised if there wasn't a magical sausagefest somewhere with strong views on the cock as a magic wand.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 13:35 (twelve years ago) link
From Jess Nevins' site:
Greg Daly writes, “The 'penis as wand' gag here is something implied throughout the Harry Potter books. The Hogwarts stories can be understood as a magical rather than a sexual coming of age -- it seems that sex is wholly sublimated as magic in the books. All teachers are celibate, with one teacher's lycanthropy standing in as a surrogate homosexuality, with closed-minded parents fearing that exposure to him will somehow harm their children. More broadly, male students are expected to excell in Defence Against the Dark Arts, where the wand is the primary tool, while female ones tend to do best in Potions, reliant most heavily on the cauldron; the sexual symbolism of wands and cauldrons is fairly clear. In the final Potter book, Rowling repeatedly uses phallic language when describing the use of Potter's wand, and it's significant that for a significant part of the book he's rendered impotent when his wand is broken. In other words, this isn't just a cheap and puerile joke. It might be that too, of course...”Greg Arnott writes, “you may find it useful to look into Crowley's symbolism of the wand to clarify the death of Alan Quatermain by Harry Potter's cock. Particularly Chapter VI of Book 4: Book 2: Magic, "The Wand". Its a tricky chapter for an aspiring magician who goes around talking about "constructing a baculum" without knowing what the word means in the non-esoteric sense. “
Greg Arnott writes, “you may find it useful to look into Crowley's symbolism of the wand to clarify the death of Alan Quatermain by Harry Potter's cock. Particularly Chapter VI of Book 4: Book 2: Magic, "The Wand". Its a tricky chapter for an aspiring magician who goes around talking about "constructing a baculum" without knowing what the word means in the non-esoteric sense. “
From the Mindless Ones:
Amy: Finally Alan has Harry put away that bloody wand and reached for the real source of all that expelliarmussing. It’s juvenile, Harry’s juvenile, but it also speaks to a character who’s disenchanted with all he’s been through, all the whomping whufflepuffing, an angry kid who’s seen through his conditioning and decided to cut through the shit and get real (Grr! Potter ain’t for kids anymore!). Pissing on Quatermain is also a disdainful act and a macho one (“My fiction’s bigger than yours!”) and I have nothing against Moore going with this. People’s weird relationship with sex and with their own private parts is something barely in evidence at all in not just comics but most fiction. I can easily imagine a character with Harry’s powers doing what he does here. Why not? Last week someone probably far less fucked up than Harry smeared their poo all over our work toilet wall…. I think some people read this sort of thing and all they see is Moore going for shock value, and he is, but he’s also touching on something very real – violent people often have violent, or at least quite odd, sexualities…. But more to the point, we all have sexualities and Moore wants to talk about that! Thinking about it now, it’s probably one of the reasons why Moore’s comics seem hung up on rape, because it’s just another facet of the extreme violence that suffuses adventure stories, only one that’s normally shied away from.Adam: Suffuses adventure stories and reality.Andrew: You read that as urinating? I thought he was “sacrificing a male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence”, as it were…Masturbation seems to have been the key to magic in the view of both Spare and Crowley. Crowley talked of the highest awakening being caused by sacrificing a child — “the sacrifice of oneself spiritually. And the intelligence and innocence of that male child are the perfect understanding of the Magician, his one aim, without lust of result. And male he must be, because what he sacrifices is not the material blood, but his creative power.”(By sacrificing a child he meant sacrificing the possibility of a child, by ejaculating somewhere other than inside the vagina of a fertile woman).Spare, meanwhile, believed that sigils should be charged at the moment of orgasm. Is Potter here inadvertantly turning Quartermain into something more powerful when he kills him, by concentrating on him as he ejaculates? It’d explain Quartermain’s ghostly presence at the end (Aslan Quartermain…)(On a more prosaic note, Quartermain here looks exactly like he’s been shot by a Dalek).Amy: The electric drip as Harry shakes his dick off! “….Fucking repulsive piece of mekrob…”I didn’t know this, I thought mekrob was Urdu for shit or something, but actually this cuss word (which kinda does mean shit) was first popularised by one E. Cartman of South Park, Colorado and it refers to his most hated food stuff.Anyway, all this dragon slaying is a much better outlet for Orlando’s periodic bouts of psychopathy than the indiscriminate slaughter of fellow servicemen and civilians. Just keep them adventuring…. This ties in with what Allan was saying earlier in the book about the adventuring fucking them all up. Once you’ve tasted that high, the day to day must seem pretty flat.
Adam: Suffuses adventure stories and reality.
Andrew: You read that as urinating? I thought he was “sacrificing a male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence”, as it were…
Masturbation seems to have been the key to magic in the view of both Spare and Crowley. Crowley talked of the highest awakening being caused by sacrificing a child — “the sacrifice of oneself spiritually. And the intelligence and innocence of that male child are the perfect understanding of the Magician, his one aim, without lust of result. And male he must be, because what he sacrifices is not the material blood, but his creative power.”
(By sacrificing a child he meant sacrificing the possibility of a child, by ejaculating somewhere other than inside the vagina of a fertile woman).
Spare, meanwhile, believed that sigils should be charged at the moment of orgasm. Is Potter here inadvertantly turning Quartermain into something more powerful when he kills him, by concentrating on him as he ejaculates? It’d explain Quartermain’s ghostly presence at the end (Aslan Quartermain…)
(On a more prosaic note, Quartermain here looks exactly like he’s been shot by a Dalek).
Amy: The electric drip as Harry shakes his dick off!
“….Fucking repulsive piece of mekrob…”
I didn’t know this, I thought mekrob was Urdu for shit or something, but actually this cuss word (which kinda does mean shit) was first popularised by one E. Cartman of South Park, Colorado and it refers to his most hated food stuff.
Anyway, all this dragon slaying is a much better outlet for Orlando’s periodic bouts of psychopathy than the indiscriminate slaughter of fellow servicemen and civilians. Just keep them adventuring…. This ties in with what Allan was saying earlier in the book about the adventuring fucking them all up. Once you’ve tasted that high, the day to day must seem pretty flat.
― Desire is withered away from the sons of men! (aldo), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 13:40 (twelve years ago) link
gotta agree this is the weakest one yet. felt really perfunctory
― giallo pudding pops (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 5 August 2012 18:53 (twelve years ago) link
awesome 1985 interview/promo re: Swamp Thing w/Len Wein, Alan, and Karen Berger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJlZUpgXQJI&feature=related
(note that everybody thinks they're working on a horror comic fwiw)
― chicago rap twitter luminary (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 30 August 2012 15:28 (twelve years ago) link
http://slovobooks.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/last-alan-moore-interview/
― Hungry4Ass, Sunday, 12 January 2014 21:24 (ten years ago) link
damn, he went in
― Number None, Monday, 13 January 2014 00:07 (ten years ago) link
That was really hilarious, especially when he got to his gigantic Grant Morrison boner
― SHAUN (DJP), Monday, 13 January 2014 00:08 (ten years ago) link
culminating with this
As already stated, any publishers, friends, artistic collaborators or other close associates of Grant Morrison or Laura Sneddon should not approach me in future. Further to this, any periodicals or institutions which publish or have published interviews with Grant Morrison should similarly not attempt to contact me. To be brutally honest, I’d prefer it if, as with the Before Watchmen re-creators, their associates and their readers, admirers of Grant Morrison’s work would please stop reading mine, as I don’t think it fair that my respect and affection for my own readership should be compromised in any way by people that I largely believe to be shallow and undiscriminating.
― Number None, Monday, 13 January 2014 00:18 (ten years ago) link
He sounds like a very bitter and boring person. I guess he's earned it though.
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 13 January 2014 13:17 (ten years ago) link
The Moore/Morrison feud is Kaufman/Lawler-esque in its OTT-ness.
― Greasy Wallet (Old Lunch), Monday, 13 January 2014 14:20 (ten years ago) link
I am a terrible comics fan because I either had no idea or had completely forgotten about it (though tbh I rarely pay any attention to what comics creators say about each other)
― SHAUN (DJP), Monday, 13 January 2014 14:23 (ten years ago) link
whole thing was pretty lol but man yeah his bitterness/vitriol is very OTT
otoh I have no idea what works Morrison is supposed to have ripped off of Moore - the Invisibles? Animal Man? Batman Inc.? idgi
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:29 (ten years ago) link
remember 50% of it is ripped off from Michael Moorcock
this older article gives Morrison's side of things (as told to the infamous Laura Sneddon)http://comicsbeat.com/the-strange-case-of-grant-morrison-and-alan-moore-as-told-by-grant-morrison/
― Number None, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:58 (ten years ago) link
I get that Moorcock was pissed (and considered suing?) over the Gideon Stargrave thing but even that was just a minor part of the Invisibles. idk everything seems so blown out of proportion.
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:33 (ten years ago) link