Infinite Crisis: The Death Count

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I'm being a little liberal here, counting from Identity Crisis:

Sue Dibny
Jack Drake
Captain Boomerang
Blue Beetle
Red Rocket
Max Lord
The Parademon
Pariah
Hyena
The Ratcatcher
The Human Bomb (killed by Bizarro!!, lamest death ever!!)
Phantom Lady
Black Condor
Shazam
Blackbriar Thorn (but he's regrowing)
Hawkwoman (Shayera Thal)
The Demolition Team
Fastball
Supermen Of America

Are they dead?. Do we care?: Firestorm, Martian Manhunter, Cheshire, Firefly, Uncle Sam, Dr. Polaris, buncha villains from Villains United.

Most likely to meet their maker: Wonder Woman, Flash, the second Lex Luthor, Superman of Earth 1, Animal Man?, Psycho Pirate?, the entire Outsiders? (well, this is a desire, not a possibility).

Look at that list!! THEY MEAN BUSINESS! They killed THE RATCATCHER!. The friggin Ratcatcher!!. Who's next?. Clock King??.

Complete the list if I forgot anyone, make your guesses!.

― Amadeo (Amadeo G.), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

I don't know who 95% of these characters are.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

I think that's the point!
A return to a world populated by Super Friends!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

There's no way a gravy train character like Shazam stays dead. There's no ditching Wonder Woman for the same reason.

On the other hand, as Dan says, who the fuck is Hyena? And Parademon? I can't even guess if these are supposed to be good guys or bad guys.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

Shazam is dead!
Pre-Crisis, he died in his first appearance, no? After he "bestows his power" on Billy Batson in an abandoned subway tunnel, doesn't he crushed by a giant rock or something?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but his spirit gets called up all the time.

― Vic Fluro (Vic Fluro), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

Oh wait. I thought by Shazam you meant Captain Marvel/Billy Batson. Not the wizard guy who gave him his magic word, who about 99.89% of the world doesn't know about anyway and wouldn't care if they did.

The Big Red Cheese will survive, though.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

The drama at the end of Day of Vengeance where Billy was falling from the sky and couldn't remember the magic word was pretty lamely resolved in IC! #1. Big whoop.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 14 October 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

Hyena is a stupid villain who I didn't even know till he was offed in Villains United (#3, I think). The Parademon is one of the Secret Six and the only "independent" Parademon ever. He was cool.

Some of those characters I don't know (The Supermen Of America, Fastball) but they were seen dying in Omac. And I'm such a nerd that I had to put them there.

Anyway, I came up with this when Johns answered in the recent interview that "they were killing enough characters to demonstrate people they meant business" (in the first issue of IC). Who were those characters?. Half the Freedom Fighters (who haven't had a title since...1945??) and the Ratcatcher, a good Batman villain (created by Wagner and Grant, I think) but who hasn't been used in years. So...so much for meaningful deaths.

― Amadeo (Amadeo G.), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

I think the Freedom Fighters had their own title during the 70s, after the Crisis On Earth-X JLA whiz-bang. Their death was largely symbolic, since they, y'know, are actually Earth-Xian. (there's an interesting story behind why their Earth was called Earth-X, btw).
Though REALLY, the first to die in IC! proper should have been the Crime Syndicate, since Earth-3 was the first Earth we saw consumed by Anti-Matter Waves (aka RED SKIES!!!) in the O.C. (original Crisis, though I doubt in this day and age that abbreviation will catch on), a point not lost on K. Busiek when he did his JLA/Avengers, which time will probably prove to be a better sequel to the OC anyway.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

there's an interesting story behind why their Earth was called Earth-X, btw

Well?

― The Yellow Kid, Friday, 14 October 2005 17:24 (twenty years ago)

Okay. This is in the introduction to the Crisis on Multiple Earths Vol. 2 trade.
On Earth-X, WWII never really ended. The battle has reached America, and save for the Freedom Fighters (who never actually assembled as such back in the 40s at Quality Comics), the Nazis are kickin' butt.
Len Wein, who wrote the JLA two-parter (#107 and #108, I think), originally called it Earth-[Swastika], but Julie Schwartz, whose cultural/religious background is evident, didn't want to put the Nazi symbol on the cover or in a title in such a way that it might look cool or something, so they sanded off the arms of the swastika and got X.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

If you sand off the arms of a swastika, doesn't it give u a + instead?

But then Earth + doesn't sound as sinister as Earth X, does it?

― David N (David N.), Friday, 14 October 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

The nazi swastika is in a 45 degree angle, so cutting of the hands would indeed result in an X:

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/processed_new_images/nazi_flag_150.gif

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Saturday, 15 October 2005 07:29 (twenty years ago)

But the traditional swastika is like a +, that's correct. The nazis did a good job in ruining an otherwise harmless symbol which used to be a mere good luck charm. In some non-western cultures, where the swastika doesn't carry such a terrible weight, they still have alternative uses for it; for example, there is a small communist party in India which has a swastika as it's symbol.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Saturday, 15 October 2005 07:33 (twenty years ago)

Has Shazam/Captain Marvel been a top-selling character any time in the past thirty or fourty years? I mean, obvs they won't ditch him cos he's got a big place in comics history and they don't want to lose the copyright, but he's not really that big of a character.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Saturday, 15 October 2005 13:19 (twenty years ago)

He's pretty well known outside of comics (like, he's one of the few superheroes my dad knows) so that's a plus for him. And I think he's a character that still has potential for great stories, just get someone who downplays the "iconic" take, which doesn't really work and diminishes the character by trying too hard to make him look like a big gun, and emphasize on its kiddie dream come true side.

In other words: don't let Alex Ross get anywhere near the character.

― iodine (iodine), Saturday, 15 October 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

i thought captain marvel was great in kingdom come though! like when he's walking around with other superheroes and they're all scared shitless

― dave k, Saturday, 15 October 2005 17:54 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

Add to the deadlist:

Captain Nazi!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 8 December 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

And I think he's a character that still has potential for great stories, just get someone who downplays the "iconic" take

OTM, DC could/should use him the same way they've used Green Arrow for yrs. GA as Bat-Substitute, low-profile enough that you can tell stories with that you wouldn't dream of doing with a registered trademark worth mega-bucks in licensed underpants.

I recently d/led (and later deleted, because they're kind of lame after all) the full run of the Who's Who and '87/'88 updates, and the original Sivana Family (from the Captain Marvel mythos) is frugging awesome. Sivana raised his kids on Venus and two of them are paragons of Human Godliness, Beautia and Magnificus, and then there's Sivana Jr. and a girl version of Sivana who I am in love with.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 8 December 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Huk, do you mean that they should use Captain Marvel as a low-risk Superman substitute for crazy stories? Because that's a really good idea.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 8 December 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

Yes, that's what I mean.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 8 December 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

four weeks pass...

http://www.heroicimages.net/investigating/infinite_crisis_memorial.html

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 6 January 2006 16:57 (twenty years ago)

what a beautiful memorial.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Fisherman? I thought that was an Alan Moore 'Supreme' character.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:17 (twenty years ago)

That's how UNIVERSE-SPANNING Infinite Crisis is, they're even killing people they don't even have the rights for! Watch out Dilton Doiley!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:46 (twenty years ago)

No, seriously, is he an Aquaman villain or something?

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Yeah. He, um, uses a fishing rod as a weapon, as far as I can tell. Sort of a Green Arrow of the Sea.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:56 (twenty years ago)

So, it IS the Supreme Character!

Now, just in case you're putting me on...

I looked again and saw the issue he died in was a Gotham Central. I haven't read this book, but I get the feeling it's not too Aquamanny. Is 'Fisherman' just the surname of some detective, ala 'Pembleton'?

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 6 January 2006 17:58 (twenty years ago)

Holy shit, it wasn't a put-on.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:00 (twenty years ago)

I'm sorry I ever doubted you, Huk.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:00 (twenty years ago)

THE INVISIBLE UN-THING!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:01 (twenty years ago)

Okay, now that one you're just kidding about, right?

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:06 (twenty years ago)

Look at what you just posted!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 6 January 2006 18:09 (twenty years ago)

(I may not have been entirely seriously in my post before this one.)

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:47 (twenty years ago)

OYL prediction: The Invisible Un-Thing and the Mod Gorilla Boss divide up Gotham City!

― Vic Fluro (Vic Fluro), Saturday, 7 January 2006 00:15 (twenty years ago)

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5687/624/400/Wonder_Woman-104-06.jpg

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:01 (twenty years ago)

I don't know if it's Infinitely Related to Crisis or what, but apparently Batgirl died in last week's issue of Batgirl, and I think there's still one or two issues left to go before the series ends.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:33 (twenty years ago)

Probably the ole Clayface trick then.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 23 January 2006 15:55 (twenty years ago)

It's sorta tangentially connected to deaths; who was the mer-lady in Indefinote Crapness #1? She looked suspiciously like Superman's ex Lori Lemaris who, I'm fairly sure, died during the 1st Crisis.

Confused from Manchester

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:03 (twenty years ago)

It's all related to that time Green Lantern created a monster with his ring so he could avoid Carol Ferris & her pending marriage proposal.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:05 (twenty years ago)

Did Lori Lemaris really die in Crisis of the First Part? If she did, she was reintroduced in the Byrne-era of Super-Stuff, and I think she had a baby with Aqualad.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:07 (twenty years ago)

I think Byrne used her in a flashback-type story, but I don't think she's still kicking. Her fins.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:09 (twenty years ago)

In Lori's appearances in the mid-to-late 1990s, Lori had been magically altered so that she would be human when dry and a mermaid when wet, much like Madison, Daryl Hannah's character in the 1984 movie Splash. Lois Lane agreed to let her stay at her apartment for a while during a trip to Metropolis; however, Lori being an old flame of Clark's put a brief strain on Lois and Clark's relationship, though things were soon straightened out. Lori remained a recurring character through the rest of the 1990s, and made an appearance in a recent Justice League of America comic storyline involving her native Atlantis.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Well, shut my gills.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:13 (twenty years ago)

Er, from Wikipedia, of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Lemaris

It seems that she did indeed die in the First Crisis of the First Part. Does this make her the first person to die in TWO Crises?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:14 (twenty years ago)

I guess we should add all the stupid Titans Superboy dismembered. If only I could remember their names! Dammit, Zatanna!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:23 (twenty years ago)

I think it was just Team Titans in toto.

I'm waiting for Superboy to inadvertently step on the Atom.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Team Titans Atom or Identity SadFace SHRINK THE WORLD AWAY Atom?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:28 (twenty years ago)

Hawkman's Co-Pilot Atom.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 January 2006 16:38 (twenty years ago)

me feel like big loser for pointing this out, but it was Dolphin that Aqualad/Tempest impregnated…she was sloppy seconds, as Aquaman had plowed her beforehand…

― veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

Ah, Dolphin, the Daisy Duke of the Seven Seas!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:01 (twenty years ago)

COMING SOON ... Seann William Scott is ... AQUAMAN! (co-starring Johnny Knoxville as Black Manta)

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:14 (twenty years ago)

I don't know if it's Infinitely Related to Crisis or what, but apparently Batgirl died in last week's issue of Batgirl, and I think there's still one or two issues left to go before the series ends.

Aw, shit. I really liked the Cassandra Cain Batgirl(or at least the early issues of it I read)

Is this clearing the way for Babs Gordon: TEH RETURN, then?

― Philip Alderman (Phil A), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Didn't they already do that in Zero Hour?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:12 (twenty years ago)

Spoiler/Robin and now Batgirl? Yet Jason Todd comes back from the dead? Batman is not an Equal Opportunity franchise.

― scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:19 (twenty years ago)

Word is the final scene in the issue is Batgirl and Spoiler doing each other's hair in Heaven.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Moral seems to be show some of your face behind your stupid mask.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 10:32 (twenty years ago)

Facist!

― Philip Alderman (Phil A), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 15:17 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget Orpheus!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 15:30 (twenty years ago)

You guys totally forgot about Orpheus, didn't you? Did he die in vain??? ORRRRRRRPHEUSSSSSS!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:04 (twenty years ago)

Whoa.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:17 (twenty years ago)

What, the Neil Gaiman charikter?

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

He was a Gang Leader, he was a Superhero, but above all, he was a man in a purple outfit. He led Gotham's nefarious Deacons and acted as Batman's mole within the Gotham Gang Community. He died during War Games at the hands of Black Mask.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:26 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...

I guess Chemo should maybe be counted among the dead in Infinininininite Crisis. Though, was he ever alive to begin with?
Oh, and also the faceless/nameless thousands of Bludhavians (did anyone with a name get Chemo-dethed?).

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 20 February 2006 18:54 (twenty years ago)

FIND OUT IN NIGHTWANG!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 20 February 2006 19:00 (twenty years ago)

I'd rather not.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 20 February 2006 19:03 (twenty years ago)

NON-BELIEVER!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 20 February 2006 19:10 (twenty years ago)

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