Unresolved Questions of the 5YG! (A Legion Thread)

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Okay, so after several years, Chapel Hill Comics finally managed to fill in the gaps in my Legion of Superheroes (erm, 4th? the TMK era, anyway) run from 1-38. Having read them all in the past couple of days, I have some questions for the masses:

(note: this is the only Legion I've actually read, which may have hindered my reading somewhat)

Oh, and spoilers!

  • What exactly was the Black Dawn?
  • What happened to Celeste Rockfish? After being imbued with energy (from THE CENTRE OF THE GALAXY THAT GLOWS GREEN, BRAINY), she seemed to disappear after The Quiet Darkness. Did she ever return?
  • Laurel Gand's costume: did it chafe? Or is that just another benefit of being a Daxamite?
  • Who built the SW6 chambers if the Dominators say that they predated the Dominion?
  • Was "The Crying Game" bit in #31 with Sean / Shavaughn out-of-the-blue, or established in a previous series?
  • No, really, what was Black Dawn?
  • So, er, how did the moon get destroyed? It seemed to involve Superman somehow, but it was never made all that clear.
  • What was the Dark Circle, anyway, aside from some guys with Mysterions on their masks?
  • Kid Quantum? Who might he be, then?
  • Why is Tenzil Kim not the most celebrated hero in DC history?
  • Black Dawn?

  • Liked the guest appearance from Death in #38, even if it made the last 18 issues of the comic fairly pointless…

    carson dial (carson dial), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 23:26 (twenty years ago)

    Man, I don't understand ANY of those questions.

    Austin Still (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:07 (twenty years ago)

    What happened to Celeste Rockfish? After being imbued with energy (from THE CENTRE OF THE GALAXY THAT GLOWS GREEN, BRAINY), she seemed to disappear after The Quiet Darkness. Did she ever return?

    The green energy was Green Lantern power from Oa. She became a full time member of the Legion after Giffen left. When Glorith used her powers to revert or age the Legion, Celeste's body withered and died and she became a being of green energy. She called herself Neon, and remained with the Legion until the Zero Hour came, and everything was wiped out.

    # Was "The Crying Game" bit in #31 with Sean / Shavaughn out-of-the-blue, or established in a previous series?

    Out of the blue.

    Here's a good explanation of the moon's destruction from a LOSH FAQ:

    11. How was the moon destroyed? And who is Dev-Em?

    The destruction of the moon was shown in ADVENTURES OF
    SUPERMAN #478, and its repercussions in LSH v4 #19. Essentially,
    Superman was involved in a time travel story that involved
    alternating between the past and the future. Large amounts of
    energy were apparently necessary to catapult him through time.

    At the end of the crossover, Superman arrived in 2995,
    where mad Daxamite Dev-Em was involved in a pitched battle with
    the LSH. Dev-Em ultimately decided to activate a destruct system
    the Dominators had installed (Operation: Triple Strike). With the
    help of Superman, Dev-Em was defeated, and Imra was able to
    disable the destruct device. However, the Linear Man, who had
    been behind the time trip, realized that the moon had to be
    destroyed to maintain history as it was established. He re-
    activated the system, sending Superman back in time and destroying
    the moon. (The LSH managed to escape, and Dev-Em was later
    revealed to have survived.)

    The "Time and Time Again" storyline, of which this was a
    part, appeared in ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #476-8, SUPERMAN #54-55,
    and ACTION #664-5.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

    Was "The Crying Game" bit in #31 with Sean / Shavaughn out-of-the-blue, or established in a previous series?

    It was total fanfic: Element Lad was always one of teh gayest superheros ever (see his '70s costume where the logo is a GIANT PENIS rising from the crotch and finishing on his chest [fnarr]), and people didn't like it when Levitz butched him up by giving him a hot girlfriend who broke down his shy defenses to ride the GIANT PENIS. So the Bierbaums re-gayed him by making his hot girlfriend a fag. Shit story, great cover.

    No, really, what was Black Dawn?

    Never got told, you don't need to know, it happened in the gap, etc.

    So, er, how did the moon get destroyed? It seemed to involve Superman somehow, but it was never made all that clear.

    Yeah, you have to read a bunch of Dan Jurgens comics to see that happen, ie it's not worth it.

    What was the Dark Circle, anyway, aside from some guys with Mysterions on their masks?

    Old LSH foes, yer standard cult-infiltrates-and-takes-over-from-within style conspiracy supervillains.

    Kid Quantum? Who might he be, then?

    Possibly the very worst part of the clean-up TMK were forced to do after Carlin made them reboot the universe in #4, he's the Superboy stand-in like Laurel Gand is the Supergirl stand-in. Don't think about it, really.

    kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:30 (twenty years ago)

    Kid Quantum was a character who was retconned into being one of the first Legionnaires, but he died in battle. His power came from his belt, and that led to the ban on members who relied on gadgets. But then there was something about him really being a Proty, but I'm not sure about that.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

    I really don't know about the SW6 chambers stuff - I think it was just something the Dominion had found, basically it was to say that it was some creepy old thing they stumbled into, with the implication being that there was all kinds of crazy stuff in this chambers due to centuries of corruption.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

    > all kinds of crazy stuff in this chambers due to centuries of corruption.

    Including the nastiest jelly ever made! Thanks for the answers, Kit and Matthew. They never explained Black Dawn? I bet the Legion fans loved that…

    (was Garth a Proty as well?)

    carson dial (carson dial), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

    Garth wasn't just a Proty, he was the original Proty--he didn't "sacrifice his life energy" to raise Garth from the dead, he just took over Garth's appearance and life and never looked back. Always loved that particular retcon.

    Douglas (Douglas), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

    Douglas, why wouldn't Imra notice that he wasn't the real Garth? I mean, she's a powerful telepath! Surely she would've noticed at some point.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:09 (twenty years ago)

    She did! She 'always knew' or somesuch. Although if your husband suddenly has the mind and personality of your household pet and you don't say a word about it, you may have some issues.

    Vic Fluro (Vic Fluro), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

    Um, didn't they have children as well? Ewwww...

    carson dial (carson dial), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

    I guess it was denial then?

    Vic, bear in mind that I haven't read that issue in over a decade.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:22 (twenty years ago)

    It is pretty weird that Proty could procreate with a human woman.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 01:22 (twenty years ago)

    Yeah, they made it that his MIND went into the actual Garth body with his life energy or something, yawn, just have him shapeshift into a human form and produce human sperm like he produces tears and wee and sweat, lame comics-science rockism!

    kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 02:57 (twenty years ago)

    Wasn't there a Dark Circle what recently fought Green Lantern, space gangsters led by the son of SHOCK OF SHOCKS Abin Sur?

    Black Dawn was some sort of Imskian war atrocity, no?

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

    I think that all the Dark Circle agents are clones of the main dark circle group of plotters

    re Black Dawn - Imsk set off some kind of bomb that reacted with the Braalian magnetic powers and made them all melt or some such. Cosmic Boy survived but he lost his powers in the process. Serves him right for calling himself "cosmic" when he totally isn't.

    Mark C (Markco), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

    Didn't Cos lose his powers before the The Magic Wars or something, which is why his more aptly named brother Magnetic Lad was there to die?

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

    I can't remember but I don't think so - I think he just retired for some reason

    Mark C (Markco), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

    Powerless Rokk Krinn > Cosmic Boy anyhow. Especialy vs. Mordru.

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

    Rokk lost his powers in the Braal-Imsk war in a battle at Venado Bay.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

    That war happened during the Five Year Gap. That's also wear Shrinking Violet got scarred and butched up.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

    She lost an eye, no?

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

    She lost an eye, yes.

    kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

    Childhood memories are of the LoSH being the "Up with People" version of the X-Men. This is a great thread for catching up on the grim that followed.

    scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

    Oh! One more thing: Where the SW6 clones? Mon-El seemed to think that the Adult Legion could have been the Dark Circle clones, but it wasn't resolved in the issues I have.

    carson dial (carson dial), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

    I have a vague memory of the adults turning out the be the clones, and then them all turning out to be alternate timestreams because it was Zero Hour.

    Vic Fluro (Vic Fluro), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

    They established that the SW6 group were the "real" Legion shortly after Giffen left the series.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

    Stupidest idea ever? Sadly it was actually Giffen's....

    kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 1 December 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

    Didn't a whole load of SW6ers die horrifically? It didn't pack much punch at the time because everyone thought they were clones.

    Vic Fluro (Vic Fluro), Thursday, 1 December 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

    Well, they were basically launching the Legionnaires series as a way of appealing to the old timey fans who didn't like the dark version, so it kinda made sense to pander to them by making SW6 the "real" Legion.

    Yeah, some SW6ers died in the war with the Dominators. Can't remember which off the top of my head, aside from Chameleon Boy.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 1 December 2005 01:12 (twenty years ago)

    Projectra and Karate Kid died in the chamber explosion along with Chameleon boy, I think.

    Thanks for all the answers! I feel a little more versed in Legion lore now...

    carson dial (carson dial), Thursday, 1 December 2005 01:51 (twenty years ago)

    I'm 4 issues into this and it's probably the best of all the comics I enjoyed as a pre-teen/early-teen that I'm now rereading as an immature adult. Well, maybe not as good as Batman: Year One, but really close.

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

    Also, was surprised (though I shouldn't have been) to notice that Mark Waid was the editor on this series (at least at first).

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 5 December 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

    I've just downloaded 1-49 and am dead excited to read this -- will try and forget the spoilers I've accidentally read all of ignored.

    It is vaguely approachable to anyone without a LoSH encyclopedia?

    Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

    I made it through the first time round with next to no previous LOSH exposure. I just bought it because I really liked the bleak cover to #1. The PDA stuff helps fill in a lot, and the storytelling works so well that you can piece together a lot.

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

    I read all of this stuff as a kid with no prior knowledge of the Legion, and I loved it. I gradually picked up the background info, but a lot of the appeal to me was that the story had this massive scope and a huge ammount of backstory that would be alluded to here and there. Really, it's not unlike watching something like Lost, where you have a big story and you learn a bit more about the characters all the time.

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 5 December 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

    Oh, and Chuck, you really can just stop reading after issue 39 or 40. That's pretty much where the story ends, and then it goes off in a "new direction."

    Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 5 December 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

    The first Annual will help with background a little (re: Ultra Boy/Jo Nah's origin)

    Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 5 December 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

    eight years pass...

    I found this most helpful: http://itsokimasenator.livejournal.com/910.html

    RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 10 August 2014 23:56 (eleven years ago)

    I made it through the first time round with next to no previous LOSH exposure. I just bought it because I really liked the bleak cover to #1. The PDA stuff helps fill in a lot, and the storytelling works so well that you can piece together a lot.
    ― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, December 5, 2005 10:54 AM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

    I read all of this stuff as a kid with no prior knowledge of the Legion, and I loved it. I gradually picked up the background info, but a lot of the appeal to me was that the story had this massive scope and a huge ammount of backstory that would be alluded to here and there. Really, it's not unlike watching something like Lost, where you have a big story and you learn a bit more about the characters all the time.
    ― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, December 5, 2005 11:14 AM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

    Oh, and Chuck, you really can just stop reading after issue 39 or 40. That's pretty much where the story ends, and then it goes off in a "new direction."
    ― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, December 5, 2005 11:15 AM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

    RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 11 August 2014 00:00 (eleven years ago)

    Tonight I am totally spending re-reading FYL #1-40 for the first time in a dog's age

    RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 11 August 2014 00:01 (eleven years ago)


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