The 90s nostalgia thread

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This is partly for Mr Popshots.

It's partly for me, since I hit the comic shop today to look for The Walking Dead tpb, which they're sold out of, and got a Hellboy tpb instead (the girlfriend's choice; envy me) and noticed, either in the "upcoming" whiteboard or the shelves:

* A new Swamp Thing series, apparently Alec, not Tefe. Or maybe it's neither of them. I grabbed a couple issues but haven't read it yet. I'm an enormous Swamp Thing fan, and there are fifty-seven different ways they can disappoint me here.

* A new Doom Patrol series by John Howdy Motherfucker Byrne. (What the fuck?)

* A new Firestorm series, of all the damn things.

* A Venom vs Carnage series.

* A new Spider-Man series called simply Spider-Man, which made me shudder the McFarlane shudder until I realized it's written by Millar. I'm not a fan of Millar, but he isn't McFarlane.

* Astonishing X-Men, the Judd Winick X-Men series; am I remembering wrong or wasn't Astonishing X-Men one of the alternate universe titles they had during that Legion-killed-Xavier thing? (I forget what it was called. Age of Apocalypse?)

(I confess to really liking many of those X-titles in the Legion-killed-Xavier wake, btw, all of which I read after the fact, when I resumed reading X-Men at the end of Alan Davis's run.)

Tep (ktepi), Friday, 14 May 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

How about this:

- "Batman" becoming a showcase for loose-continuity stories by various superstar creative teams like "Legends of the Dark Knight" used to be.

-Chris Claremont writing Uncanny X-Men again (with Alan Davies art)

-"Formerly Known As The Justice League"

- The Return of the BIG crossover (Bendis' Avengers story, Secret War, the DC story which is upcoming)

- "Cable & Deadpool" (shudder)

David Nolan (David N.), Friday, 14 May 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I forgot about Claremont, geez -- didn't they learn from last time? It was like just a couple weeks ago, practically. (I liked his FF, though, so maybe he'll be good this time around.)

I didn't realize either that Secret War was a crossover thingie or that Bendis's Avengers story would be. Hm.

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 15 May 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Astonishing X-Men was the Age of Apocalypse thing, according to my girlfriend (it's Joss Whedon who's writing it, btw).

I'm interested to hear what you think of the new Swamp Thing, I never really read it back in the day (did read some Hellblazer though) but I'm enjoying it pretty well.

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 15 May 2004 03:07 (twenty-one years ago)

The Swamp Thing writer for the 1st 6 issues (Andy Diggle) is doing great stuff w/ The Losers right now, so I'm optimistic that it won't be as disheartening as, say, Doug Wheeler's Swamp Thing run turned out to be.

How about Marvel's insistance on FLOODING the market with titles that don't seem to justify their own existance except to satiate the needs and desires of She-Hulk & mutie fans. To be fair, I've heard good things about the She-Hulk series, but that's one instance in possibly twenty series & minis that are slated to come out or already have. And this is with Marvel experiencing old-skool-Image-type delays in getting books out when they're supposed to!

And, lest we forget, it's Cable & Deadpool WITH ROB LIEFELD COVERS. AND, if that weren't enough, he's supposedly plotting (and possibly drawing) another X-Force series (co-written by 90s poster boy Fabian Niceiza (sic, my bad)).

For the record (off the top of my head), the Age of Apocalyse series were: Astonishing X-Men, Gambit & the X-Ternals, Weapon X, Xasperating Mutie Nonsense. Note: one of these titles is made up.

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 15 May 2004 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

* A new Doom Patrol series by John Howdy Motherfucker Byrne. (What the fuck?)

Yeah, that's pretty severely in "what the fuck?" territory, even more so than the last abortion they published with the words "Doom Patrol" stamped across the front.

Chris F. (servoret), Saturday, 15 May 2004 07:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I've read the first two issues of Diggle's Swamp Thing, and my feelings are mixed: on the one hand, at least three of the characters -- Swampy, Constantine, Abby -- are certainly acting in character. The fourth, teenage Tefe, I'm just not familiar with so can't say.

The problems I'm having are just that the series is necessarily affected by the Tefe series, and by the final arcs of the original Swamp Thing, which made the character all but unwriteable. Swamp Thing at its best was always a careful, constantly tilting balancing act between the protagonist's ever-increasing powers/responsibilities and his very down-to-earth, almost immature, emotional concerns -- the Morrison and Millar arcs threw that balance so far out of whack that it might've been a good way to end the series, since losing that balance is a sensible climax, but makes it really hard to keep going.

None of which is anything I can blame Diggle for, and he might plan to restore that balance, I don't know. If not, then it'll be a different Swamp Thing, which I'll eventually have to get used to.

Speaking of which: saw Man-Thing on the upcoming whiteboard, too.

I meant Joss Whedon when I said Judd Winick! I'm not sure how I mixed that except for the JW.

Gambit and the X-Ternals is probably the worst title for anything ever.

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 15 May 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh man, you're forgetting the worst of it all.

ALTERNATE COVER MADNESS.

True, it's nowhere near as bad as the early 90s. Not yet anyways.

The Andy Diggle take on Swampy is pretty good. Significantly lighter than the ones that came before it, to be sure. Enrique Breccia's art is ace. Wish they'd left it un-colored, though.

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Saturday, 15 May 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, no - I think one of the Age of Apocalypse titles was actually called "X-Calibre". For the luvva Doop.

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 15 May 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Not only Alternate Covers, but Pre-bagged comics, die-cut covers, holgram covers, embossed covers, fold-out covers....

Rob Liefeld plotting Cable & Deadpool?
Lemme guess: Splash page, splash page, splash page, double splash page, fight-scene splash page, end.

David Nolan (David N.), Saturday, 15 May 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking of Doop:

AVENGERS VS. X-STATIX!!!!!!

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

aka "You'll never read X-Statix comix again."

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I still haven't read X-Statix. No particular reason, I just ... haven't.

X-Calibre was actually not too bad, iirc, or at any rate no worse than the rest of the AoA minis. I won the tpbs (well, loose issues for some, dunno why) for all the Age of Apocalypse stuff in one of those trivia things anotheruniverse.com used to have, though, so maybe it's easy for me to say that -- the stack made a nice bit of reading in a title I hadn't kept up with at a time when I didn't have much spending money. (And it was in Warren Ellis's run, wasn't it? I'm not an Ellis fan across the board, but I liked a lot of his Excalibur stuff.)

Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Geez, David, I'd be fine with splash pages & fight scenes up the yin-yang if those pages & scenes didn't feature the same two facial expressions (mouth open / mouth closed) AND gross examples of of what influence Manga can have on an artiste AND (and!) woeful amped-up distortions of the wonder that is the human body. And guns. Oodles and oodles of concentric & overlapping circles & ellipses to super-futurist phwhew phwhew guns. (Well, look at me complain. Do you DARE upset the RANK BEAST that is CRANKYPANTS!!!??)

Wait a sec - where'd the "Howdy Motherfucker" come from? I didn't even know JB had a middle name.

David R. (popshots75`), Sunday, 16 May 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

My main objection to Liefelds stuff - and this is nit-picking, but hey - was the teeny-tiny little hands he used to draw on the end of those tank-barrellike arms he gave his characters, tiny hands usually grasping guns, massive ridiculous guns. Those hands drove me crazy.
I'm gld I finally got that out after all these years....

David Nolan (David N.), Sunday, 16 May 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Between my bitchiness and the lack of proper grammar in my last post, you'd think I was sublimating years and years of venomous anti-Liefeld kvetching. (Bitching on the internet, BTW, is SO not 90s, so we should stop.)

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 May 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

To Daver, With Love

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Monday, 17 May 2004 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

(the last great run on Swamp Thing was just Millar: Morrison only co-wrote the first four)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm holding my breath until Daniel Way & Skottie Young get to do a Night Thrasher series.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Anti-Liefeld bitching...God that takes me back. It could be worse Cable could get popular again and the whole New Mutants #87 speculator/money-grabbing-dickhead market could re-ignite. That would be...hellish.

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Terrible hair:
http://www.nightwing.ca/comic/images/titans.gif

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter David writing Madrox, the Multiple Man.

Also - insular pandering to the direct market and Comic Book Guy clones (hi me) everywhere (cf. a Madrox mini-series?!?!) (Starjammers ongoing?) (that Witches mini?) (whither Night Nurse & Millie the Model?!?!?).

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Warren Ellis on _Excalibur_ was great. I mean, sure Pete Wisdom was a complete Mary Sue, but the issue where Colossus pounded him into a pulp was FANTASTIC.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

(Haha what about Liefield's inability to draw feet? Also how he made everyone look like a constipated chicken?)

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

McFarlane had the same foot problem! He just drew pointed hatch-marked blobs in lieu of, like, shoes. Doink.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

None of this would be true if feet had tits.

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Have you guys seen Michael Turner's art?
he's doing Superman/Batman and covers on Flash and Identity Crisis.
He reminds me of that assy 90s stuff. I'm totally not impressed, and may not buy Superman/Batman anymore.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I dug Turner's art on Witchblade, and some of Fathom's underwater scenes were great. Haven't seen any of his stuff for DC, but if it's Michael Deodato you're thinking of in terms of the assy 90s, I definitely see the resemblance. He also suffers from Byrne's All Faces Look The Same syndrome.

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

He also suffers from Byrne's All Faces Look The Same syndrome.
That's exactly what I don't like about him. The rest of his art is pretty awesome, I guess, but I came up through Kevin Maguire (and to a lesser extent Adam Hughes) on JL and Joe Staton on GLC and those guys rocked faces.
Funny thing, I also really like Jim Aparo and ALL of his faces ARE the same.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Somehow it worked better on Witchblade, where it was the first time you were seeing the characters, so it was somehow less noticeable than otherwise: cause it isn't that all of a sudden, Perry White, Reed Richards, and Wolverine all look exactly the same except for hairstyles.

(Although I still confused Sara Pezzini and her sister a lot, come to think of it.)

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 17 May 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, even her mom did. (I have no idea what I'm talking about)

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Monday, 17 May 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Fabian Nicieza roxx u r all sweaty geekz

Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Barima OTM

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sweaty.

Nicieza was great on Gambit, a title I never expected to like and wound up loving. (The regular series; I didn't read the miniseries that preceded it.) What I read of his Thunderbolts run was brilliant, but mostly I relied on racmu to keep me up to date on that.

What's he doing these days? He always seemed on the verge of becoming one of those "Wizard hot writers" a la PAD and Busiek, but never quite did.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 22:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought he WAS a hott writer just for being on the X-Men for so long! Right now, he's doing stuff for the MU again - he had a short-lived Hawkeye series (...), he's working on Cable / Deadpool, and I think he co-wrote the Avengers / Thunderbolts mini-series.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 20 May 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm. Cable/Deadpool. Hm. Maybe it'll be like Gambit, something that by all rights should suck but turns out not to ...

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 20 May 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Fabian Nicieza also wrote the New Universe book Psi-Force!

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, I honest to God thought you guys were kidding about Liefeld being back, until I read Newsarama this morning.

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 27 May 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

For Tep (& Lee) (from the Newsarama thread):

http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v152/jaximus/Xforce_hammertime.jpg

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 27 May 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh god. Is this the new X-force? Why is this being allowed to happen? couldn't somebody stop it? Hasn't anyone ever thought about the famous old moral dilemma : if you could travel back in time and kill Rob Lifield as a baby, would you do it? I think these panels have made the decision for me....

David Nolan (David N.), Thursday, 27 May 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh oh! Uh oh!

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 27 May 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

ten months pass...
I'm holding my breath until Daniel Way & Skottie Young get to do a Night Thrasher series.

OMG PRESCIENT. Skottie is drawing the upcomin' New Warriors ltd and his character redesigns (and art), esp. Thrash and Nita, are f*ckin' terrible and pointless.

BARMS, Thursday, 31 March 2005 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)


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