Retcons on television

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Not the "layers and layers of secret history" of The X-Files or the "Angel is Spike's sire, I mean grandsire" of Buffy, but:

Jamie Stempel Buchman's parents make numerous appearances before Mad About You hits the peak of its popularity; shortly before the show jumps the shark, Carol Burnett and Carroll O'Conner are stuntcast as completely different Mr and Mrs Stempel. A third Stempel sister (or third Buchman sibling?) also disappeared, if I remember right.

Similarly, although the two Darrens on Bewitched don't count, see the note on Happy Days below.

On Cheers, Frasier Crane had a deceased scientist father, no brothers (if I remember right), and wasn't from Seattle. On Frasier, well, the opposite of that.

The Danny Tanner Phenomenon: Sitcom character is introduced. After 2-3 seasons, small number of jokes have been made about character's quirky habits of one sort or another -- usually not as characterization, but to fill beats. After 4-5 seasons, quirky habit has taken on a life of its own, becoming the defining trait of the character; by season 6+, ridiculously disproportionate gags are made about it, almost cartoonish in exaggeration. (In the case of Full House's Tanner and Friends' Monica, they became neat freaks to such degrees that entire B-plots could be made about their obsessive cleaning fits.)

The Chandler Loves Monica/Muppet Babies/Flintstone Kids Syndrome: After a flashback episode or sequence proves popular, further flashbacks are introduced -- or a flashback show spun off -- but instead of really acting as prequel, they project the "present day" status quo onto younger versions of the characters, i.e. Fred and Wilma growing up together instead of meeting as young adults, and Chandler's first impressions of Monica shifting over time to better counterpoint that season's arc.

OMG ST ELIGIUS IS TOTALLY A SNOWGLOBE

Note on Happy Days: this note on the disappearance of Chuck Cunningham was written out midway through this post.

OMG PAM WAS DREAMING BOBBY'S IN THE SHOWER. KNOTS LANDING IS EARTH-2 NOW!

OMG TIGER? OMG COCKROACH?

I don't think I have anything to say, I was just making a mental list and decided to type it down.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

There should also be -- and probably is -- a con called RetCon. Or RhettCon in Atlanta.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

BECKY!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

I R STPUID -- what is retcon a conflation of?

― pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

RETroactive CONtinuity

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

What Huk sez:

Retroactive continuity – commonly contracted to the portmanteau "retcon" – is the adding of new information to "historical" material, or deliberately changing previously established facts in a work of serial fiction. The change itself is referred to as a "retcon", and the act of writing and publishing a retcon is called "retconning".

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

Highlander + Outlander = Retconnery.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

Becky's another Darren example, I think -- the reason the Stempels are different is because the characters themselves were different, they weren't just recast.

Similar to Chuck Cunningham: WHERE ARE YOU, MR (NOT SCOTT OR ALEX) SUMMERS? Your teenage daughter is raising your other, younger, imaginary teenage daughter all by herself in the wake of her mother's death! And slaying vampires on the side! Your sense of dramatic necessity must be well-tuned for you to realize that deep down Buffy would rather be in a position that illustrates her newfound maturity than be able to afford milk and bread!

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

A friend of mine got into a big argument with a girl who insisted that because Joss Whedon liked comic books, it was obvious that Buffy Summers was meant to be related to the X-Summerses, "because it's not a very common name, that's too big a coincidence." This is why I hate fandom.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

That's sort of like the Martha Wayne/Martha Kent phenom.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

If you rewrite continuity to remove the shittiness, it's a de-septic-con.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

Or Lois Lane/Margo Lane, and the other worst parts of Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life (xpost)

― pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

er, off topic, but I just remembered the pretty much everything about Lex Luthor has been retcon. I think he first appeared as an arms dealer, and it wasn't for several years that it was revealed that his hate-on for Superman stemmed from BOYHOOD BALDNESS!!!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

I think the snowglobe retcon was a good one, because it was an ending. The story didn't continue with the characters going "OMG! A SNOWGLOBE!?!?!!?"

― Ray (Ray), Monday, 13 February 2006 20:55 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I'm totally okay with it -- somehow much more okay with it than with the Wizard of Oz movie's copout "it was all a dream" (I think the difference is perceived motivation). It was funny, and it didn't change the way you'd view any of the episodes -- "this is an imaginary story .... aren't they all?"

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 February 2006 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

Similar to the snowglobe: the final episode of Newhart.

― ample parking (Garrett Martin), Monday, 13 February 2006 21:01 (nineteen years ago)

Didn't Frasier explain that, though? I think there's an episode where Sam or Norm or somebody visits, and upon meeting Frasier's dad says "Wow, Frasier told us you were dead!" Frasier's dad is none too pleased.

― The Yellow Kid, Monday, 13 February 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but I figure that's like "Arion lied to you, Power Girl!" I don't want to get into hairsplitting and retcon vs reboot vs new revelation, but I figure if the author's intention was X when he wrote X, and he later writes Y to contradict or supplant X, it's a retcon whether he later explains it or not. The "I was mad at you so I said you were dead!" thing is the Frasier No-Prize.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 13 February 2006 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

The Simpsons have a lot of retconning, though invoking the yellow-skinned S's is problematic because they don't have rigorous continuity of any sort beyond Sideshow Bob episodes and the odd meta-in-joke.

Anyway, I'm thinking about how Homer, Lenny, Karl and Moe were all childhood buddies all of a sudden.

― c(''c) (Leee), Monday, 13 February 2006 22:01 (nineteen years ago)

Man, that Simpsons episode almost drove me away for good. Normally I don't care about their lack of continuity, but considering Moe had been firmly established as being a good bit older than Homer for years, that little bit of nonsense really pissed me off. That episode was pretty awful otherwise, too.

― ample parking (Garrett Martin), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:10 (nineteen years ago)

Seinfeld did quite a bit of the Darren-Becky style chicanery for syndication. Scenes from early episodes were reshot for the reruns after they replaced the actors playing Jerry and George's fathers. Also Larry David was the voice of Newman in his first (off-screen) appearance, but Wayne Knight overdubbed the lines for syndication.

― ample parking (Garrett Martin), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:12 (nineteen years ago)

There was a small amount of retconning on Friends to suggest that Monica and Chandler had fancied each other all along.

― chap who would dare to be completely sober on the internet (chap), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:16 (nineteen years ago)

I can't decide if this is cool or batshit insane.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

I'd like to take Door #3, "Batshit Cool," Monty.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:23 (nineteen years ago)

They should go reshoot 90% of Roseanne with Sarah Chalke now. No offense to OG Becky.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:27 (nineteen years ago)

I'd not heard that St Eligius thing before. That's completely awesome.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:49 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know if you remember the young son of one of the doctors who was autistic, but the last scene is him playing with a snowglobe, having imagined the whole series. For that show, it worked (it gets a lot of flack, but I've never heard anyone say "I loved St Elsewhere except for the last scene!")

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:52 (nineteen years ago)

we need to introduce dr who here

aspects to be discussed:
i. regeneration (kim newman in his good little book on who notes the lameness of bewitched for not egf just saying that samantha cast a spell to change darren's looks)
ii. tardis
iii. gallifrey
iv. general "campaign for real time" issues
v. BAD WOLF (not retcon by the writers so much as retcon by a character!)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:32 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I was just thinking of Dr. Who - it turns into an even bigger can of worms with the semi-official status of the Withnail & I incarnations.

― chap who would dare to be completely sober on the internet (chap), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:34 (nineteen years ago)

haha kim's who novel = the story of hartnell and susan b4 ep 1!

but novels are not generally considered canon (luckily)

in the 2005 series they built in the idea of chris'n'billie adventures-we-didn't-see: in the first few years, eps were strictly back-to-back like a soap opera

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

My academic advisor at uni wrote Dr. Who novels for ££. He also wrote slash fiction involving Daleks buggering the Doctor with strange arm attachments, which he sometimes recited at poetry readings.

― chap who would dare to be completely sober on the internet (chap), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 02:22 (nineteen years ago)

WHAT IS HIS NAME??? you can deg00gle it surely

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 02:26 (nineteen years ago)

P@ul M@rgs.

― chap who would dare to be completely sober on the internet (chap), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 02:28 (nineteen years ago)

OMG TIGER? OMG COCKROACH?

What show is that from?

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 02:30 (nineteen years ago)

The Brady Bunch and The Cosby Show, respectively :) Granted, Cockroach's disappearance from Theo's at-home life is not as mysterious as the Bradys' sending the dog away and pledging never to speak of him again.

(I would watch a Cockroach, Chuck Cunningham, and Tiger sitcom.)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 02:38 (nineteen years ago)

Homicide: Life On The Street, Lt. Al Giardello talked about his two daughters (and they both showed up), and MAY have mentioned an Al Jr., but at no point in the first five or six seasons did he mention his son Michael, who was working for the FBI in Arizona or New Mexico, until Michael showed up in the last or second last season.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 14:30 (nineteen years ago)

(joe, discussion w.the LJ who/fanfic massive reveals to me the AWFUL FACT that 4n4ld4l3k sl4sh is so common as to be almost yawnsome!! -- this fellow is pretty well thought-of though, esp.on a GHEY AGENDA tip)

(haha speakin of which! DW retconned not only as a SEXUAL BEING but as a BISEXUAL BEING)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

WOAH WAIT, P@UL M@GRS WAS YOUR ACADEMIC ADVISOR????????

You know one of the people responsible for both one of the greatest Doctor Who novels ever (The Blue Angel) and several of the worst Doctor Who novels ever written (Verdigris, Mad Dogs & Englishmen)! Wow!

I could only be more conflicted if you'd namechecked P@ul Corn3ll or K@te Orm@n?

― Dan (Wow Ugh Wow) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

I wouldn't know about any of that, I've never read a Dr. Who novel. I haven't seen him since finsishing uni five years ago. Nice bloke, though. Also wrote books for teenagers about being gay.

― chap who would dare to be completely sober on the internet (chap), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

Hahahahaha there was a vocal contingent of fandom who had issues with him promoting The Gay Agenda in Who novels. (I didn't care, I just wanted him to write an internally-consistent story; a lot of fandom kept playing the "Oh, he's using a Middle-Eastern storytelling technique so it doesn't matter if characters magically and without warning or explanation teleport from one place to another, or if there's no way to build a coherent timeline from his set pieces" handwave to the point where I seriously wanted to punch people.

― Dan (Shocking, I Know) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

haha the LJ opinionscape totally reversed the best and worst there!

(plus also you are not allowed opinions on dr who novels unless you ALSO POST THEM ON FREAKY TRIGGER)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

a "Middle-Eastern storytelling technique"? NICE SAVE er wait

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

Timewyrm: Revelations is the best Who anything I've ever seen, but Human Nature is not!

― kenchen, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

Why has every ILC thread lately turned into something about Buffy or Dr. Who?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

by a unpexpected twist of plot it turns out they always were about buffy and dr who

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

The St. Elsewhere ending was good, but oh, the consequences!

Dwayne McDuffie's CRISIS ON EARTH-TV!

― carson dial (carson dial), Thursday, 16 February 2006 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

we need to introduce dr who here

Oh nooo! Dr Who continuity is like the wormiest of all cans, especially if you include the books. First there was the Virgin book range, which carried on from the end of the TV series. Following those were the BBC books, which don't officially recognise the Virgin books, except when they do. THEN there's the spinoff range from the Virgin books, featuring characters created for that range but no DW elements, except that the Time Lords are still hanging around "unofficially"(ie, never named as such).

The comics are a whole other kettle of fish, sometimes existing in their own universe and sometimes in the TV universe(but TV characters/villians can also appear in the non-TV universe).

There's also the issue of how many versions of the McGann Doctor there are running around in various books, audio plays, comic strips etc.

Pity the fool that attempts to reconcile all this madness into one single coherent canon, but no doubt someone has tried. Probably the same kind of person who is still fuming about the Doctor using up all his regenerations in that Comic Relief special with Rowan Atkinson.

Oh, and then there's the whole thing in the BBC novels about Gallifrey being wiped out in a Time War, but not the same Time War that wiped out Gallifrey in the TV series. It's probably best not to think about this too much, but unfortunately I already have. MUST REACH...ANADIN...HEADACHE...GETTING WORSE...

― Philip Alderman (Phil A), Thursday, 16 February 2006 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

they clearly need to explain that all the different continuities are happening in alternative dimensions, and then have a huge cosmic event that merges all the dimensions into one and then get bored a few years later and have another cosmic event that splits the dimensions apart again

wait a minute....

― Mark C (Markco), Thursday, 16 February 2006 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

Wow, that Dwayne McDuffie piece is amazing. Off to blogger with me.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 16 February 2006 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

Oh my God, that was the best thing to read first thing in the morning. Thank you, Carson!

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 16 February 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

No worries! Now if I can just get this image of Detective Munch dressed up as Harbinger out of my mind...

― carson dial (carson dial), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

Arrested Development is out now, too!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

Which I think also means Fox News is out too: AND THEREFORE THE REAL WORLD. We are all part of a autistic childs dream.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

Not quite sure how you're linking Fox News to the real world there.

― robster (robster), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Fox News Anchors played themselves (well, one did) on Arrested Development, which also had a cameo by Richard Belzer as Munch, who tracks back (orginally) to Homicide, which had a cameo by Ed Begley, Jr. as a kindly Baltimore doctor (though the Stan Sitwell factor complicates things).

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:32 (nineteen years ago)

I wonder if we can count the episode of St Elsewhere where John Doe thought he was Mary Tyler Moore and recognized Betty White's character as Sue Ann.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

That is one fucked up snowglobe kid!

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

I take Robster's point though. Fox News doe snot really relate to the real world (THE REAL WORLD HOWEVER...I think we can get to via Pedro and Me - Winick!)

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

I'm starting to think this autistic kid is related to that omnipotent kid from that episode of The Twilight Zone.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 16 February 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

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