women in refrigerators

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…a term alluding the tendency to mutilate, rape, kill or otherwise humiliate female characters. this suggests that writers tend to have probs with women…not too strange that a genre populated by dudes (creators and fans) that more than likely do/did not get laid would drift towards this…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Refrigerators

Gwen Stacy is killed by the Green Goblin…

barbara Gordon crippled…

Black Canary is raped…

Sue Dibny…Iris West…

Carol Danvers raped in another dimension, falls in love with rapist (who turns out to be her son), de-powered, gains and loses cosmic powers, becomes a drunk…

Power Girl similarly put through a ringer…

discuss…

― veronica moser (veronica moser), Thursday, 25 May 2006 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

Carol Danvers raped in another dimension, falls in love with rapist (who turns out to be her son), de-powered, gains and loses cosmic powers, becomes a drunk…

You just made this up, right.

― chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Thursday, 25 May 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

hahahaha... no. It does give a little extra dimension to her being Jessica Jones' best buddy.

― The Jazz Guide to Penguins on Compact Disc (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 25 May 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

The cosmic powered and drunk bit was later. Everything else happened in Avengers 200 or thereabouts. Also they miss the part where she gives birth to her own rapist, I believe.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

Avenger 200.

Now that's the way to celebrate an anniversary.

Of course not a million miles away from what happened to Power Girl in Zero Hour.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 25 May 2006 12:28 (nineteen years ago)

why did all that shit happen to Carol? maybe because, unlike the Scarlet Witch and the Wasp, who will strike a pose, point and shoot a bolt of energy, Carol punches people. maybe loser writers and readers are threatened by this…

but then, the Scarlet Witch has two kids, which turn out to be figments of her imagination, and then she goes KERRRR-AYYY-ZEEEEE!!!!! there's a belief that John Byrne, who thunk that bit up, did that because he wanted to fuck with developments made by some of the creators with whom he feuded…

― veronica moser (veronica moser), Thursday, 25 May 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

No, I must defend JB, and insist that he did it because he hates women!

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 25 May 2006 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

Speaking of threatening strong women and J.Byrne, the first time I can remember thinking "Hold on, this is a bit off" about a comic was the issue of Fantastic Four where She-Hulk is turned into a cringing wreck by the psycho-man and is forced to lick mud off a slavemaster's boots! (or something similar - definitely there were whips and filth involved). That was a Byrne issue, shortly after the BDSM Sue Richards storyline.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

well, in his defense, Jbyrne did emphasize, early in his FF run, that Sue is easily the most powerful member of the FF.

― veronica moser (veronica moser), Thursday, 25 May 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but pedestalization and humiliation are two sides of the same coin surely (cf Claremont and his strong female characters who are always being mind-controlled)

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

There's some "debate" over whether or not Black Canary was actually raped in Longbow Hunters, apparently Mike Grell (who wrote it) claims she wasn't (and Gail Simone has reiterated that), but, um, oh sure, crazy psycho guy who strung BC up and tore up her clothes and cut her and stuff...whatever. Not that I WANT for her to have been raped, I just want, y'know, writers to own up to the sick shit that they do, and not, like, act all coy and innocent, "well, did you see her actually get raped on panel? I rest my case." I'm sure that in five years, B. Meltzer will be claiming such.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 25 May 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

Actually CC's mind control fetish is pan-gender innit? For all the gruesome convention stories you hear I don't think he's especially guilty of on-page WIR-ism.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

A big thing about WIR is that the woman is raped/tortured/whatever to provide plot points for male protagonists, but it doesn't really happen the other way round to provide plot fodder for female protagonists.

ie when Canary was non-raped, it was when she was a supporting character in Green Arrow (and she also lost her super scream and ability to have kids at the same time - good one!), ditto with Babs in Killing Joke.

― Mark Co (Markco), Thursday, 25 May 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

Of course Simone has done her bit to sort that one out with an all in one Lazarus Pit dumpin' and Babs wiggling her toes.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 25 May 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

are you sure that Steve Trevor was never ass-raped in order to advance the plot in Wonder Woman?

― veronica moser (veronica moser), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:12 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.amazonarchives.com/Images/175pic2.gif

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

!!!

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

is that meant to be robert kanigher (ie irv novick or whoever FLATTERS THE BOSS)?

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's Doc Magnus, creator of the Metal Men.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

oh, wait, there's the RK sign on the wall

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

I would love to believe he did indeed have a huge red sign just saying "R.K." on his office wall!

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

Well, Novick didn't have to exaggerate much: http://www.comicartville.com/kanigherobit.htm

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

OMG RK is Dog Magnus!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 25 May 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

RERAIL (i just spent the last 30 minutes rereading the WiR website)

FWIW, (I've posted this before on another thread, but I like this thread and I like this page that I'm about to post, so call me a matchmaker!), here's the superclassy JLI response to the Black Canary/Longbow Hunters fiasco (for the first year of the Giffen/DeMatteis League, Dinah was, like, pretty much the only grown-up on the team--I guess J'Onn hadn't really become unhinged by Oreos yet, but Batman was a totaly 8-yr-old tyrant--and she totally kicked ass in JLI):

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/hukl/JusticeLeagueInternational19pg10.jpg

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 25 May 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

i met kanigher a cpl of times in the 1980s - by that point he was more albert steptoe than doc magnus, a little crotchety old man, mad as fuck, REALLY entertaining, he and his wife vactioned in london every summer for YEARS, he loved the attention and was sharp and fully of energy he cld talk forever, wld say terrible things abt all and sundry but particularly julie schwartz

i was also lucky enough to meet gil kane once and he was by far the more impressive person - incredibly dapper, articulate, serious, tall and a real silver fox - and yet kane was physically/emotionally afraid of kanigher during rk's reign of terror, and he was by no means alone - the man was evidently a true monster, to some at least

but man, reading that nice little link - what a CV!

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

...the first time I can remember thinking "Hold on, this is a bit off" about a comic was the issue of Fantastic Four where She-Hulk is turned into a cringing wreck by the psycho-man and is forced to lick mud off a slavemaster's boots!

Filth ahoy!

And for you leather fans...

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 May 2006 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

Didn't proto-ILCEE conclude that WIR is a bit misleading, since innumerable male protagonists have been depowered, killed, de-faced, etc.?

― c(''c) (Leee), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

kyle rayner has been de-faced recently... (to close the thread in a circular manner, since WIR cames from kyle and his incredible ability to have all his girlfriends de-powered / killed).

― Amadeo (Amadeo G.), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a296/slumpman/P1010269.jpg

― Slumpman (Slump Man), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:23 (nineteen years ago)

I didn't finish Identity Crisis because it was so fucking creepy (read: Meltzer strikes me as a fucking creep for writing it), but didn't most of the really bad shit in that happen to female characters?

― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 25 May 2006 21:56 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, Wonder Woman gets ogled by Green Arrow.

― Warlock Magazine (Warlock Magazine), Thursday, 25 May 2006 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

That was a Byrne issue, shortly after the BDSM Sue Richards storyline.

Sorry, when was this? I might need to research it.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 26 May 2006 11:10 (nineteen years ago)

ALL OF THEM.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 26 May 2006 11:20 (nineteen years ago)

U&K link for DV!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 26 May 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

You tease.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 26 May 2006 12:33 (nineteen years ago)

bitch is ugly maybe the best thing would be if she staid in the fridge, and not get out . just open it to feed the beast.....
go ahead now, you know it's true."NERD'S"
please don't cry........

― zillaman, Monday, 29 May 2006 07:10 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, get out of the house. Seriously, you need to find a hobby or sign up to play some kind of team sport because this is just kind of tragic. You're going to end up slitting your wrists or something because your life is so empty.

― Vic F (Vic Fluro), Monday, 29 May 2006 11:23 (nineteen years ago)

Is that inept irony or deep stupidity?

(Zillerman, not Vic)

― chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Monday, 29 May 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

Please don't cry, chap.

― Vic F (Vic Fluro), Monday, 29 May 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

But it's just so hard being such a "NERD".

― chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Monday, 29 May 2006 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

I'm really hoping this letter is a hoax:
http://roachspit.livejournal.com/83530.html

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 2 June 2006 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

The amount of ppl jumping to Perez's defense is kinda depressing. I mean, they sort of have a point, but considering how tame the actual post on that LJ is in its criticisms, just the fact that the author had to write two disclaimers that it's "venting" kind of ticks me off.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 2 June 2006 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

It's not a hoax - I'm pretty sure I remember stumbling across some other similar site (or maybe it's the same one) featuring GP's endorsement & some risque sketches.

I was looking for articles, see.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 2 June 2006 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

Interestingly enough, one of the first google image links for "teen titans 'George Perez'" was to "Comic book bondage covers"
-- asdf (asdfasd...), June 1st, 2006.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 2 June 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

Marvel Swimsuit Issues = gateway?

― scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Friday, 2 June 2006 19:38 (nineteen years ago)

EXCLUSIVE MJ INTERVIEW: http://www.warlockmag.com/?p=46

― Warlock Magazine (Warlock Magazine), Monday, 5 June 2006 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

"Perez is well loved by a lot of women because he draws women rather more realistically than many other, more popular artists."

ihttp://www.heroesink.com/images/white_queen/perez_emma.JPG

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Monday, 5 June 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

I know lots of ladies with broad shoulders, huge tits and narrow hips!

Oh, and prominent adam's apples.

― Keywords: revenge, knife, granddaughter, demonic-possession, rock-star, eel (Aus, Monday, 5 June 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

It's not an Adam's apple - it's a tumor!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 5 June 2006 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

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