character deaths, s&d

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Uhm, some spoilers, obv. But not for anything that isn't common knowledge around here already, I don't think.

The gratuitious killing off of characters is often mentioned as being one of the main flaws with spandex comics today, and though emotionally I'm totally with that, I sometimes wonder how justified it really is. On one hand, you'll get no argument from me that killing off characters is certainly a technique beloved by current comic hacks, used indiscriminately as a cheap shortcut to impact and pathos (rendered utterly meaningless, of course, due to the fact that they'll all be brought back from the dead sooner or later, anyway.) But on the other hand, I wonder if, with some characters, we would get angry if they're killed no matter how well it was handled from a storytelling pov. I mean, one thing about continuity-based artforms like comics (and tv!) is that you get a much bigger emotional attachment to the characters than you do when experiencing, say, a novel or a movie. Which is not to say that character deaths in those mediums can't be totally devastating, of course, but I think that with self-contained works, you sort of go in with the knowledge that basically anyone could die, and you're ok with that - I mean, they're all "dead" when the thing ends, anyway. But if it's a series (or, even worse, a sprawling UNIVERSE with decades of history), you get used to seeing the same faces, and develop a sort of attachment to them that you wouldn't otherwise get; so when they die you feel genuinley *betrayed*, because you're used to them being around, and now suddenly they're not. The recent slaughtering of JLI characters is perhaps the best example of what I'm talking about here, because that gang was just the epitome of *likeable*, characters that you just fall in love with and never want anything bad to happen to. I've not read "Infinite Identity Slay-A-Thon", but the mere idea of Blue Beetle or Sue Dibny getting axed filled me with instant outrage - and sure, part of it was due to what the Giffen/DeMatheis League symbolised, especially in relation to Grim&Gritty and all that, but part of it was also a very intuitive "wah, they killed my friends!" reaction.

Another way of putting this: no one ever sent hate letters to Peckinpah for killing off the Wild Bunch, but they do to Ron Marz and Joss Whedon. Is this *justified*? Should writers that work in serialized mediums, as a rule, take more care about whom they kill off than novelists or screenwriters do? What "makes" a good, non-exploitational death scene in comics? Is it even possible to acheive, considering the whole they'll-get-ressurected-anyway factor? And what're your "favourite" (most affecting, I guess) deaths in comix?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

The wholesale slaughter on the Giffen/DeMatteis League (not just Beetle, and Sue Dibny, but the DCU's very own Yakov Smirnoff, and beloved family man Rocket Red #4 as well!) can, through the filter of cynicism, be seen as DC passing through the parody barrier. Because whenever there's a parody of Super-Deaths/GrimGritty/Killkillkill, it's always some lighthearted character (Sugar & Spike, Rex the Wonder Dog, Wonder Twins, etc) who goes evil/die horrible deaths. So the Superboy-Prime thing works too. Because, FFS, it's SUPERMAN WHEN HE WAS A BOY (transdimensional fucknuts notwithstanding).
It's a whole Oedipal mess, to boot, or at least Freudian (lemme check my Action Philoz back ishes), with the whole KILLING YR OWN CHILDHOOD/INNOCENCE.

Favourite Deaths: Magnetic Lad (Cosmic Boy's little brother) at the end of the Levitz Legion run (immediately preceding the Five Years Later stuff).

Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 24 July 2006 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

The Mister Miracle death in JLI was oddly affecting -- odd because he was a robot, not the real thing.

I'm not sure I can claim to have been genuinely saddnened by any comics deaths (novels are much worse!) -- the inevitable resurrection seems to take the spin off things. I'm more bothered by the grimness of the deaths (heads bitten off by Killer Croc, Beetle shot in the head, the loving Psycho Pirate eye-gouging, etc.' ) -- so unnecessary. (Unless you're Garth Ennis.)

Search, though: Mister Miracle. And genuine sniffles for anyone who dies in Tezuka's Phoenix (this time, especially if you're a robot).
Destroy: Tiny footprints.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 24 July 2006 15:27 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, the great thing about the Mr. Miracle death in JLI was that, y'know, it was Bwa-ha-ha, and then all of sudden Despero shows up and holy fuck. But everything in that storyline stayed true to the characters (and the subsequent membership drive, where EL DIABLO says no).

Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 24 July 2006 15:39 (nineteen years ago)

death of elektra, first miller run (but the apparent death of ben urich = even better)

death of wonder man in avengers #9 and death of al b harper in silver surfer 5 by Lee/Heck and Lee/Buscema

death of 'false thing' in FF #51 and death of Flower in Kamandi #6, both by kirby

death of phoenix/marvel girl/jean gray in x-men #137 by Claremont and Byrne

death of captain stacey and gwen stacey in spiderman by romita/conway/lee etc

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:17 (nineteen years ago)

THEY WERE ALL MY FRIENDS, THEY DIED

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

If you've got a thing for second-string Avengers, I suggest you don't read Nova Annihilation #4.... Favourite deaths for me? I was amused by Marvel Zombies, and when Thanos wiped out everyone in Infinity Gauntlet. And I almost felt sorry for the Torpedo when he had his brain sucked out in an issue of Rom Spaceknight. Although I find it hard to believe that character was anyone's favourite.

Eyemelt (Eyemelt), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

Marvel Zombies seconded. I guess I didn't consider it, since it was an imaginary story, but yeahhhhhhhhhh.
Captain America in Marvel Zombies, best death ever.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 24 July 2006 19:59 (nineteen years ago)

Stinky in Hate, best death ever.

kit brash (kit brash), Monday, 24 July 2006 20:56 (nineteen years ago)

Whitman Mayonnaise (Rock Hardy), Monday, 24 July 2006 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

DAREDEVIL SPOILER
DAREDEVIL SPOILER
DAREDEVIL SPOILER


Foggy's murder choked me up pretty good, and far from being gratuitous it's driving the plot fairly majorly.


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Slumpman (Slump Man), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 00:29 (nineteen years ago)


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