Alex Toth Critiques Steve Rude

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Someone sent me this link - devastating art lessons from a master:

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1024328#post10%2024328

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

404

― 100% CHAMPS with a Yes! Attitude. (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 12:12 (nineteen years ago)

It's available here as well (if you scroll down).

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 12:14 (nineteen years ago)

The hidebound insistence on "drawing must do THIS and THIS, you're not here to have fun!" is making it pretty unlikely that I'll pick up an Alex Toth book any time soon.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

Weird, that link is working for me

Andrew, it wld be yr loss to pass on Toth, and I don't think he's being particularly dogmatic here - I think any aspiring comic strip artist cld learn a lot from this, grumpy old manisms and all.

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

Well, now I can see it. I'll probably print it out, too. I'm only a couple of pages in, and although I don't agree with all of Toth's criticisms, there's definitely good stuff in there.

― 100% CHAMPS with a Yes! Attitude. (Austin, Still), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 16:08 (nineteen years ago)

Wow, I will spend an afternoon with this sometime. Looks deadly/hilarious/useful.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

yeah i think he's being pretty generous! and his criticisms are good!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

If you look at two consecutive Toth jobs for Warren, say, you'll see radically different artworks. That's how dogmatic Toth is. His aversion to repetition was one of the things that crippled him creatively later on.

He's talking about mechanics -- clarity -- storytelling. Rude fluffs a lot of basic things. Still does today, on top of the fact that you know exactly what his next job's gonna look like, virtually line-for-line, before you see it, which was almost never the case with AT, who resisted formula per se, always trying to find the 'right' approach for the specific job in hand.

I think Rude's work is awful pretty but not even vaguely interesting.

― _chrissie (chrissie1068), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I'd rather read Toth than Rude. Rude does pretty pictures, Toth tells a story.

My new literary fantasy is to have Toth critique 'ugly' but brilliant artists like Ezquerra, McMahon, Cam Kennedy, early O'Neill...

― Vic F (Vic Fluro), Thursday, 21 September 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

I was thinking of that just yesterday, y'know! I was looking at some of Mike's work. I'm imagining Toth would be *utterly* perplexed -- on the one hand, Mike (Mick!) is a moderately weak artist technically, and certainly guilty of innumerable storytelling/compositional lapses; on the other, he's a virtuoso impressionist and designer, and, particularly relevant to Toth, his use of black & contrast is very nearly peerless. 1980-84 in particular, but even the story in 2000AD #1308 is a solid example -- his last comics work to date, dammit.

I think Ezquerra would be an artist AT would get a handle on more easily. He's a pretty solid draftsman & storyteller and *very* European -- Toth was a big admirer of Jordi Bernet (a fairly 'ugly' artist, I think it's fair to say), even though he hated the amorality of Torpedo. BTW: let's have a moment's silence for the almost-finished third episode, which I strongly suspect Toth shredded to a million pieces...

Speaking personally, I love Toth's insights into the medium. I've drifted into his influence much more in the last couple of years, and esp since he died (a sad wakeup call) -- I'm quite a feeble artist and I think absorbing his writings has helped me be slightly less feeble. I guess the biggest point he was always making is, however good you think you are, don't get complacent -- don't start thinking you've hit your peak and there's nothing else to learn. That's the road to becoming John Byrne.

― _chrissie (chrissie1068), Thursday, 21 September 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

I thought you meant Prog 1308 was TOTH'S last work before he died. I was wondering how the hell I'd missed it.

― Vic F (Vic Fluro), Thursday, 21 September 2006 21:59 (nineteen years ago)

I like Rude when he's painting Kirby trib covers, like those Legends of the DCU Jimmy Olsen issues.

It would have been awesome to have had Toth doing a running critique of the 52 art, comparing and contrasting Giffen's layouts w/ whatever Jackjoe is doing the finished pages.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 22 September 2006 05:41 (nineteen years ago)

eight years pass...

someone shared this on facebook today, just a beautiful page of comic bk art

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10616601_751556668215403_7418785951540466135_n.jpg?oh=2878ddc1be95e73e0d7e50c678976204&oe=54EA2F02

― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 28 October 2014 22:15 (eleven years ago)

http://fuckyeahalextoth.tumblr.com/post/95232825278/pixoholic-hold-softly-hand-of-death-by-gerry

― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 28 October 2014 22:17 (eleven years ago)

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